Forgery suspect killed by cop restricting his airway

[laughing dog]

You suppose wrong.
Why do you resort to babbling about "sides"? I realize it allows you to make your usual delusional assumptions about what people actually mean instead of dealing with the actual content of the responses.
You presented no evidence to support your claim that injecting ketamine is the least bad option. Ketamine or beat the shit out someone is a particularly stupid example of the excluded middle fallacy.

I'm not saying it's the least bad option, I'm saying we don't know if it is or not. Attacking it based on negatives is deceptive because there's no comparison to the other options.

Ketamine is a drug that should be administered by a medical professional because the wrong dosage can have serious repercussions (read www.webmd.com/depression/features/what-does-ketamine-do-your-brain#1) . It is irresponsible to wave one's hand and say
"It is either ketamine or beating the shit out of someone" are the only alternatives.

 

[ruby sparks]

“Elijah McClain: Denver officers fired for pictures mocking man's death“.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53287892

 

[Toni]

You suppose wrong.
Why do you resort to babbling about "sides"? I realize it allows you to make your usual delusional assumptions about what people actually mean instead of dealing with the actual content of the responses.
You presented no evidence to support your claim that injecting ketamine is the least bad option. Ketamine or beat the shit out someone is a particularly stupid example of the excluded middle fallacy.

I'm not saying it's the least bad option, I'm saying we don't know if it is or not. Attacking it based on negatives is deceptive because there's no comparison to the other options.

Ketamine is a drug that should be administered by a medical professional because the wrong dosage can have serious repercussions (read www.webmd.com/depression/features/what-does-ketamine-do-your-brain#1) . It is irresponsible to wave one's hand and say
"It is either ketamine or beating the shit out of someone" are the only alternatives.

Not only that but it boggles my mind that anyone could think that ketamine is a decent drug to administer if you want to make someone relaxed or compliant.

 

[Jarhyn]

Ketamine is a drug that should be administered by a medical professional because the wrong dosage can have serious repercussions (read www.webmd.com/depression/features/what-does-ketamine-do-your-brain#1) . It is irresponsible to wave one's hand and say
"It is either ketamine or beating the shit out of someone" are the only alternatives.

Not only that but it boggles my mind that anyone could think that ketamine is a decent drug to administer if you want to make someone relaxed or compliant.

It absolutely can be. Racemic ketamine is bad for that but s-isomer makes the experience less terrifying.

But seriously, People up in this bitch talking about ketamine... Who here has actually used ketamine? Have ANY of you seen into the k-hole? And posting articles like "oh, party drug" and talking about drug use as if recreational use is this terrible end unto itself.

Casual use of psychoactive drugs on people against their will is fucked, full stop. That's the crime here. It doesn't matter what motivations or effects are. "Cops inject guy with caffeine" would be as unacceptable.

Even with the options between "ethically unacceptable act", and "get beat", the option here is "get beat".

 

[J842P]

Casual use of psychoactive drugs on people against their will is fucked, full stop. That's the crime here. It doesn't matter what motivations or effects are. "Cops inject guy with caffeine" would be as unacceptable.

Even with the options between "ethically unacceptable act", and "get beat", the option here is "get beat".

Yup, exactly.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You suppose wrong.
Why do you resort to babbling about "sides"? I realize it allows you to make your usual delusional assumptions about what people actually mean instead of dealing with the actual content of the responses.
You presented no evidence to support your claim that injecting ketamine is the least bad option. Ketamine or beat the shit out someone is a particularly stupid example of the excluded middle fallacy.

I'm not saying it's the least bad option, I'm saying we don't know if it is or not. Attacking it based on negatives is deceptive because there's no comparison to the other options.

Ketamine is a drug that should be administered by a medical professional because the wrong dosage can have serious repercussions (read www.webmd.com/depression/features/what-does-ketamine-do-your-brain#1) . It is irresponsible to wave one's hand and say
"It is either ketamine or beating the shit out of someone" are the only alternatives.

Try paying attention to the facts. It is being administered by medical professionals.

The question is how you stop someone who is being violent. Since you seem to feel there's a better answer, present it. Remember, things like "wait" are not answers.

 

[laughing dog]

Ketamine is a drug that should be administered by a medical professional because the wrong dosage can have serious repercussions (read www.webmd.com/depression/features/what-does-ketamine-do-your-brain#1) . It is irresponsible to wave one's hand and say
"It is either ketamine or beating the shit out of someone" are the only alternatives.

Try paying attention to the facts. It is being administered by medical professionals.

In less than ideal conditions with no chance to do take a history. That is bullshit.

The question is how you stop someone who is being violent. Since you seem to feel there's a better answer, present it. Remember, things like "wait" are not answers.

Stop shifting the goalposts. You are the one who making the claim it is the least bad alternative even though you have no clue whether it is or not.

BTW, wait is an answer, the suspects are handcuffed. And we don't know how alleged "violent" these suspects are.

 

[ZiprHead]

In less than ideal conditions with no chance to do take a history. That is bullshit.

The question is how you stop someone who is being violent. Since you seem to feel there's a better answer, present it. Remember, things like "wait" are not answers.

Stop shifting the goalposts. You are the one who making the claim it is the least bad alternative even though you have no clue whether it is or not.

BTW, wait is an answer, the suspects are handcuffed. And we don't know how alleged "violent" these suspects are.

Why is the ketamine being administered at all? The guy is already unconscious and subdued.

 

[Toni]

Ketamine is a drug that should be administered by a medical professional because the wrong dosage can have serious repercussions (read www.webmd.com/depression/features/what-does-ketamine-do-your-brain#1) . It is irresponsible to wave one's hand and say
"It is either ketamine or beating the shit out of someone" are the only alternatives.

Not only that but it boggles my mind that anyone could think that ketamine is a decent drug to administer if you want to make someone relaxed or compliant.

It absolutely can be. Racemic ketamine is bad for that but s-isomer makes the experience less terrifying.

But seriously, People up in this bitch talking about ketamine... Who here has actually used ketamine? Have ANY of you seen into the k-hole? And posting articles like "oh, party drug" and talking about drug use as if recreational use is this terrible end unto itself.

Casual use of psychoactive drugs on people against their will is fucked, full stop. That's the crime here. It doesn't matter what motivations or effects are. "Cops inject guy with caffeine" would be as unacceptable.

Even with the options between "ethically unacceptable act", and "get beat", the option here is "get beat".

I’ve seen it administered in a medical setting and am aware of some of the counter productive effects that can and do occur—I’ve witnessed that myself as well as witnessing a patient who was wildly hallucinating due to the drug. It’s not like ketamine is a large dose of THC that mellows people out or a tranquilizer that calms people down.

I agree—and my point was exactly that there is zero reason to use ketamine or any other psychotropic drug on prisoners. Full stop

 

[J842P]

It absolutely can be. Racemic ketamine is bad for that but s-isomer makes the experience less terrifying.

But seriously, People up in this bitch talking about ketamine... Who here has actually used ketamine? Have ANY of you seen into the k-hole? And posting articles like "oh, party drug" and talking about drug use as if recreational use is this terrible end unto itself.

Casual use of psychoactive drugs on people against their will is fucked, full stop. That's the crime here. It doesn't matter what motivations or effects are. "Cops inject guy with caffeine" would be as unacceptable.

Even with the options between "ethically unacceptable act", and "get beat", the option here is "get beat".

I’ve seen it administered in a medical setting and am aware of some of the counter productive effects that can and do occur—I’ve witnessed that myself as well as witnessing a patient who was wildly hallucinating due to the drug. It’s not like ketamine is a large dose of THC that mellows people out or a tranquilizer that calms people down.

I agree—and my point was exactly that there is zero reason to use ketamine or any other psychotropic drug on prisoners. Full stop

Just to nitpick here, large doses of THC are unlikely to mellow you out. THC can have contradictory effects, it can be anxiolytic at low doses, or depending on the route of administration and various other variables, or it can be anxiogenic, especially at large doses where your blood THC increases rapidly. It has complex effects on your autonomic nervous system, and could potentially be very unpleasant. It almost always causes increased heart-rate, and definitely could result in tachycardia.

It almost certainly wont kill you, though. But I don't mean to take away from your larger point. Or your specific point about ketamine. Which is just insane to use routinely like this. Absolutely insane.

 

[blastula]

Umbrella man is not a police offer, despite what some shaky, unfounded rumors would lead you to believe. He is a white supremacist though, at least according to a search warrant.

Police: 'Umbrella Man' was a white supremacist trying to incite Floyd rioting - StarTribune.com

He has ties to the Aryan Cowboys, yeehaw. But this is coming from the police, maybe even from the real umbrella man himself.

 

[Toni]

Umbrella man is not a police offer, despite what some shaky, unfounded rumors would lead you to believe. He is a white supremacist though, at least according to a search warrant.

Police: 'Umbrella Man' was a white supremacist trying to incite Floyd rioting - StarTribune.com

He has ties to the Aryan Cowboys, yeehaw. But this is coming from the police, maybe even from the real umbrella man himself.

I'm just going to lay this out there: The fact (or 'fact') that he was a white supremacist with ties to the Aryan Cowboys does not rule out that he was a police officer. I've seen that video enough times to think that this was someone with police or military training, just by his posture and composure.

 

[Derec]

I'm just going to lay this out there: The fact (or 'fact') that he was a white supremacist with ties to the Aryan Cowboys does not rule out that he was a police officer. I've seen that video enough times to think that this was someone with police or military training, just by his posture and composure.

If his identity is known, then his employment history is also known. No need for conspiracy theories!

By the way, white supremacists and #BLM/Antifa and other left-wing extremists are both evil. Just because this guy was a white supremacist does not justify or excuse all the looting, rioting and wanton destruction perpetrated by the latter.

 

[fromderinside]

Derec why do you use divisive terms rather than true terms, like 'evil' instead of 'stupid' or 'brain dead'.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm just going to lay this out there: The fact (or 'fact') that he was a white supremacist with ties to the Aryan Cowboys does not rule out that he was a police officer. I've seen that video enough times to think that this was someone with police or military training, just by his posture and composure.

If his identity is known, then his employment history is also known. No need for conspiracy theories!

By the way, white supremacists and #BLM/Antifa and other left-wing extremists are both evil. Just because this guy was a white supremacist does not justify or excuse all the looting, rioting and wanton destruction perpetrated by the latter.

The question is how much of the rest of the trouble is likewise from false flag agitators like this guy?

 

[laughing dog]

I'm just going to lay this out there: The fact (or 'fact') that he was a white supremacist with ties to the Aryan Cowboys does not rule out that he was a police officer. I've seen that video enough times to think that this was someone with police or military training, just by his posture and composure.

If his identity is known, then his employment history is also known. No need for conspiracy theories!

His identity is not known to the public at this time. No arrest has been made.

By the way, white supremacists and #BLM/Antifa and other left-wing extremists are both evil. Just because this guy was a white supremacist does not justify or excuse all the looting, rioting and wanton destruction perpetrated by the latter.

Is it possible for you to forego a "whatabout" straw man just once?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I'm just going to lay this out there: The fact (or 'fact') that he was a white supremacist with ties to the Aryan Cowboys does not rule out that he was a police officer. I've seen that video enough times to think that this was someone with police or military training, just by his posture and composure.

If his identity is known, then his employment history is also known. No need for conspiracy theories!

By the way, white supremacists and #BLM/Antifa and other left-wing extremists are both evil. Just because this guy was a white supremacist does not justify or excuse all the looting, rioting and wanton destruction perpetrated by the latter.

Defending a Nazi.

Why am I not desensitized to Derec's bullshit yet?

 

[Derec]

I'm just going to lay this out there: The fact (or 'fact') that he was a white supremacist with ties to the Aryan Cowboys does not rule out that he was a police officer. I've seen that video enough times to think that this was someone with police or military training, just by his posture and composure.

If his identity is known, then his employment history is also known. No need for conspiracy theories!

By the way, white supremacists and #BLM/Antifa and other left-wing extremists are both evil. Just because this guy was a white supremacist does not justify or excuse all the looting, rioting and wanton destruction perpetrated by the latter.

Defending a Nazi.

Why am I not desensitized to Derec's bullshit yet?

Because you obviously lack reading comprehension. I wasn't defending him. Destruction of property is wrong whether it is done by left or right wing extremists.

However, just because some white supremacist broke windows at an Auto Zone does not justify all the rioting, looting etc. by #BLMers and Antifas that also happened in Minneapolis and elsewhere.

 

[Derec]

The question is how much of the rest of the trouble is likewise from false flag agitators like this guy?

I doubt it is that significant a fraction. There is more than enough desire to destroy on the radical left.

 

[laughing dog]

Defending a Nazi.

Why am I not desensitized to Derec's bullshit yet?

Because you obviously lack reading comprehension. I wasn't defending him. Destruction of property is wrong whether it is done by left or right wing extremists.

However, just because some white supremacist broke windows at an Auto Zone does not justify all the rioting, looting etc. by #BLMers and Antifas that also happened in Minneapolis and elsewhere.

I am unaware of anyone making such an observation, so why are you trying to change the focus?