laughing dog
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There is something wrong when someone in custody dies from negligence and no one is held accountable.
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Freddie Gray dies a week after being injured during arrest
- Thread starter ksen
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There's a difference between civil negligence and criminal culpability. It should be very apparent now that the officers committed no crime. And also, it ought to be remembered, the mere occurrence of an accident is not evidence of negligence or a crime. In this instance, there was no evidence presented that Goodson caused Gray's injuries. A person should not be subjected to criminal peril based on conjecture. But there was evidence, from the first statement given by the other occupant in the paddy wagon, that Gray may have caused his own injuries by banging against the wall. Seems rather impossible that the prosecution could have satisfied its burden on these facts.
Derec
Contributor
The point is that the prosecution failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendants committed any crime they were charged with.
And there are serious questions about "negligence". The "rough ride" itself was not proven. The prosecution tried to use a video of a wide turn as evidence of it, but a sharp, tight turn would produce higher lateral acceleration. And a fellow transportee testified that the ride was smooth and that Freddie banged his head. Also, there are some reports of him trying to injure himself in custody previously.
Add to that prosecution withholding evidence and possibly pressuring the ME to deem the cause of death 'homicide' rather than 'accident' (police detective testified that the ME initially described the cause of death as "freak accident" but she previously denied ever thinking it was accident).
Unfortunately, the City of Baltimore jumped the gun and already made the Gray family millionaires. $6.4 million would have been too much even if police were guilty.
Derec
Contributor
And it has begun ...
Jimmy Higgins
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I know I know! Isn't it funny. A guy died in police custody and no one is liable. Kind of like how Tamir Rice wasn't breaking any laws and he was shot and killed and no one could be held liable.
Hey knock-knock.
Who's there?
Vivre Fait Accompli!
HAW!
Hey knock-knock.
Who's there?
Vivre Fait Accompli!
HAW!
Derec
Contributor
What is funny is not that Freddie Gray died (and made his family millionaires because the City of Baltimore negotiated like in Bizarro World) but the comedy of blunders by Mosby et al.
Arctish
Centimillionaire
laughing dog
Contributor
Freddie Gray did not die of natural causes. I have seen no evidence that it is likely that Freddie Gray would have died that day if he had not been in custody. Holding someone accountable does not require a trial (civil or criminal).
With that preface, there is something wrong when someone dies in that situation and no one is held accountable.
With that preface, there is something wrong when someone dies in that situation and no one is held accountable.
We certainly have nothing to prove anyone guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and his death very well might have been by his own misadventure--trying to stage an injury and got more than he expected. That's certainly not enough to convict anyone on.
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But if he hurt himself trying to fake police misconduct the only person responsible is dead. Leave it to God to judge the dead.
Jimmy Higgins
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I know, that is what is so funny. The guy leaves police custody on the verge of death and no one broke a law or seemingly any regulation. Much like Tamir Rice. Dead as a door knob, but not much in the way of any real accountability.
I find it hilarious!
Fait Accompli for $1600 Alex.
laughing dog
Contributor
You need to get some different kool-aid.
Derec
Contributor
No there are good reasons to think that it might be the case (and the defense does not have to prove it was the case, just that it provides reasonable doubt).
He was known to do that and his fellow detainee told police about him banging his head during an otherwise "smooth" (i.e. opposite of "rough") ride.
Derec
Contributor
pic.twitter.com/gyBOOuXYBo
Does not seem particularly "rough" to me ...
Does not seem particularly "rough" to me ...
Arctish
Centimillionaire
Doesn't have to be particularly rough to be fatal. Doesn't have to be malice to be manslaughter. Doesn't have to be busting heads to be a felony offense.
Sometimes criminal conduct is as mundane as failing to secure the seat belt of a person unable to do it themselves. Quadriplegics, babies, people in handcuffs, etc. If one of them sustained a fatal injury in the back of your van as you drove around while they weren't buckled in, you're s.o.l.
Sometimes criminal conduct is as mundane as failing to secure the seat belt of a person unable to do it themselves. Quadriplegics, babies, people in handcuffs, etc. If one of them sustained a fatal injury in the back of your van as you drove around while they weren't buckled in, you're s.o.l.
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laughing dog
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You need to stop drinking that kool aid as well.
Jimmy Higgins
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But I am stuck in an area where I think Derec is right. If the Tamir Rice killing tells us nothing else, it is that the Police can not be monitored by their rules (won't self-enforce) or the general populace laws (too lax). There needs to be another set of rules for Police that they need to be held accountable to. Something that will hold them accountable for their actions, within a context of the conditions they work in. Something fair for them and civilians. That system doesn't exist right now and short of shooting a man in the back... and being filmed doing it, the Police are rarely held accountable for a lot of these incidents.
I see nothing that actually addresses the point--his injuries very well might have been self-inflicted.
Jimmy Higgins
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What point? That a man in police custody died in police custody and wouldn't have died if restrained properly. And there is virtually no avenue to hold any officer responsible for this person's death.
No, no. Issues like that are nearly always addressed in civil court. And the Gray family obtained a sizable settlement. There is no evidence of crime here.
ronburgundy
Contributor
The police cannot plausibly prevent every criminal in custody for intentionally injuring themselves. There are countless ways a criminal can do so, and nothing short of completely immobilizing them Hannibal Lecture style, including a gag so they can't bite their own tongue off would make it a reasonable expectation.
Thus, there should be no law holding police accountable for self-inflicted injuries in and of themselves. What their should be and is are regulations that they don't do anything to intentionally injure the prisoner and take reasonable steps to avoid accidental injury.
At most, their is only evidence for the latter, which is not criminal but a matter for civil suit and discipline by internal affairs (yes, there should be non-police on internal affairs boards).