Freddie Gray dies a week after being injured during arrest

[Jimmy Higgins]

What point? That a man in police custody died in police custody and wouldn't have died if restrained properly. And there is virtually no avenue to hold any officer responsible for this person's death.

No, no. Issues like that are nearly always addressed in civil court. And the Gray family obtained a sizable settlement. There is no evidence of crime here.

Yeah, a man is dead and there is no crime committed. That is the problem.

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I know, that is what is so funny. The guy leaves police custody on the verge of death and no one broke a law or seemingly any regulation.

The police cannot plausibly prevent every criminal in custody for intentionally injuring themselves.

Like restraining themselves in a seat? That most likely would have prevented the death. This isn't exactly asking for too much.

 

[ronburgundy]

No, no. Issues like that are nearly always addressed in civil court. And the Gray family obtained a sizable settlement. There is no evidence of crime here.

Yeah, a man is dead and there is no crime committed. That is the problem.

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I know, that is what is so funny. The guy leaves police custody on the verge of death and no one broke a law or seemingly any regulation.

The police cannot plausibly prevent every criminal in custody for intentionally injuring themselves.

Like restraining themselves in a seat? That most likely would have prevented the death. This isn't exactly asking for too much.

He would still be able to cause serious injury to himself by intentionally thrashing about, which according to the other prisoner is what he did. He could still slam his head or face against the side of van, or thrashing about and break his wrists or dislocate his arm, etc. Also, unless you want all people in custody to be in complete restraints at all times (which is akin to torture), then cuffing him to his seat in the van would have not mattered. A prisoner bent on injuring themselves (as evidence suggests Gray was) is going to injure themselves.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

He would still be able to cause serious injury to himself by intentionally thrashing about, which according to the other prisoner is what he did.

Can we get a definite source? If I remember correctly this was a statement by the police union and no statement has been made buy the other prisoner who would be able to confirm a rough ride was given.

He could still slam his head or face against the side of van, or thrashing about and break his wrists or dislocate his arm, etc. Also, unless you want all people in custody to be in complete restraints at all times (which is akin to torture), then cuffing him to his seat in the van would have not mattered. A prisoner bent on injuring themselves (as evidence suggests Gray was) is going to injure themselves.

He wasn't seat belted in. Proper police procedure in all cases is to belt a person into the car. (And there is no testimony that the officers attempted to do so.)

 

[Arctish]

The other prisoner heard banging noises. He could not tell if Gray was thrashing about in anger, if he was trying to signal the driver that he was in dire need of medical attention, or if he was convulsing. All he heard were noises coming from the other side of the van, where a prisoner able to walk before the cops arrested him was found shortly thereafter with a severe spinal injury of the same sort as other prisoners received while in police custody.

There is no evidence that suggests Gray was intent on injuring himself. That nonsense claim comes from certain posters who can't imagine that a guy with asthma and a back problem, in handcuffs but not buckled into a seat in the back of the van, could have been injured through no fault of his own.

 

[arkirk]

Wow. If you can't even get a lesser conviction against Officer Goodson, the guy alleged to have actually killed (err, fatally injured) Gray, just let it go. But Mosby won't. Pride is a sin for a reason.

If you weren't so busy smoking, there is a chance maybe you might have a little bit of concern for Freddie. He was after all murdered. This shitty malfunctioning court system is not equal to its task...justice. So you think we should just let it go. We turned Zimmerman loose, and we turned cop after cop loose also. You just don't seem to give a damn when black people are murdered. Don't get feeling alone about that...cops in general feel pretty good about their newfound license to kill. Someone should have had to pay for Freddie

 

[Trausti]

Wow. If you can't even get a lesser conviction against Officer Goodson, the guy alleged to have actually killed (err, fatally injured) Gray, just let it go. But Mosby won't. Pride is a sin for a reason.

If you weren't so busy smoking, there is a chance maybe you might have a little bit of concern for Freddie. He was after all murdered. This shitty malfunctioning court system is not equal to its task...justice. So you think we should just let it go. We turned Zimmerman loose, and we turned cop after cop loose also. You just don't seem to give a damn when black people are murdered. Don't get feeling alone about that...cops in general feel pretty good about their newfound license to kill. Someone should have had to pay for Freddie

If there was evidence of murder, surely the prosecution would have presented it by now. Why the wait? Mosby is such a tease. Tsk tsk. Perhaps the legal system should take up your call to abandon standards and permit convictions solely on could have, may have, possibly did, just look at his ugly face! Innocent until proven guilty? - who needs that crap? The baying mob is much better at determining guilt than any judge.

 

[ronburgundy]

Can we get a definite source? If I remember correctly this was a statement by the police union and no statement has been made buy the other prisoner who would be able to confirm a rough ride was given.

He could still slam his head or face against the side of van, or thrashing about and break his wrists or dislocate his arm, etc. Also, unless you want all people in custody to be in complete restraints at all times (which is akin to torture), then cuffing him to his seat in the van would have not mattered. A prisoner bent on injuring themselves (as evidence suggests Gray was) is going to injure themselves.

He wasn't seat belted in. Proper police procedure in all cases is to belt a person into the car. (And there is no testimony that the officers attempted to do so.)

The question that Jimmy and I are debating is whether (as he claims) any time a person is injured while in police custody, a criminal conviction should be automatic since the law should make it a crime for them to fail to guarantee all prisoners are incapable of even self-inflicted injury.
There was zero evidence of any intentional actions to cause the injuries or negligence that itself would have caused the injuries without Gray intentionally trying to hurt himself. That is why the driver was acquitted. The position of Jimmy and some others is that such evidence should be irrelevant, because the law should make it a crime that a prisoner get injured no matter what the cause is.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If you weren't so busy smoking, there is a chance maybe you might have a little bit of concern for Freddie. He was after all murdered. This shitty malfunctioning court system is not equal to its task...justice. So you think we should just let it go. We turned Zimmerman loose, and we turned cop after cop loose also. You just don't seem to give a damn when black people are murdered. Don't get feeling alone about that...cops in general feel pretty good about their newfound license to kill. Someone should have had to pay for Freddie

If there was evidence of murder, surely the prosecution would have presented it by now. Why the wait? Mosby is such a tease. Tsk tsk. Perhaps the legal system should take up your call to abandon standards and permit convictions solely on could have, may have, possibly did, just look at his ugly face! Innocent until proven guilty? - who needs that crap? The baying mob is much better at determining guilt than any judge.

It's not about the courtroom. It's about appearing tough on cops when it comes to re-election.

 

[Arctish]

It's not about the courtroom. It's about appearing tough on cops when it comes to re-election.

I will give 100 Likes to any person who can name a District Attorney, State's Attorney, or Prosecutor who ran a re-election campaign based on getting tough on cops.

 

[Derec]

If you weren't so busy smoking, there is a chance maybe you might have a little bit of concern for Freddie.

It's sad that he died as a human being, but he wasn't exactly an upstanding member of society.

He was after all murdered.

No, he was not murdered. At most it was negligent homicide. At least, an accident.

This shitty malfunctioning court system is not equal to its task...justice.

What do you suggest? Dispensing with presumption of innocence and "beyond a reasonable doubt" when trying cops?

So you think we should just let it go.

There is not much chance for convictions in the remaining 4 cases. So, yes.

We turned Zimmerman loose, and we turned cop after cop loose also.

If you can't prove guilt you must acquit.

You just don't seem to give a damn when black people are murdered.

Freddie Gray wasn't murdered. Neither was Trayvon Martin (at most it was manslaughter).

Don't get feeling alone about that...cops in general feel pretty good about their newfound license to kill.

Yes, they are all regular 00 agents.

Most cops spend their whole careers without using their gun in anger. As opposed to TV cops shooting their guns every week.

Someone should have had to pay for Freddie

Taxpayers of Baltimore already did. Thanks to their mayor and city council who jumped the gun.

 

[laughing dog]

It's sad that he died as a human being, but he wasn't exactly an upstanding member of society.

Whether Mr. Gray was or was not an upstanding member of society is irrelevant to the issues in this thread.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's not about the courtroom. It's about appearing tough on cops when it comes to re-election.

I will give 100 Likes to any person who can name a District Attorney, State's Attorney, or Prosecutor who ran a re-election campaign based on getting tough on cops.

Shifting the goalposts. It's not about running on that, it's about not leaving their opponent to argue they're a pawn of the cops.

 

[Derec]

Whether Mr. Gray was or was not an upstanding member of society is irrelevant to the issues in this thread.

It is highly relevant. Getting shot by police or dying in police custody is much more correlated with being a thug than with being black. Recently there were a few police shooting in Atlanta that didn't get much press.
This thug died:
Atlanta man, 22, killed in officer-involved shooting
These thugs survived:
Alleged car thieves shot by Atlanta police identified

None of these shootings would have happened if they were "upstanding members of society".

By the way, there was recently a conviction in the Freddie Gray case.
Key Figure in Violent Freddie Gray Riots Gets Brutal Dose of Justice From Fed-Up Judge

 

[laughing dog]

Whether Mr. Gray was or was not an upstanding member of society is irrelevant to the issues in this thread.

It is highly relevant. Getting shot by police or dying in police custody is much more correlated with being a thug than with being black. Recently there were a few police shooting in Atlanta that didn't get much press.
This thug died:
Atlanta man, 22, killed in officer-involved shooting
These thugs survived:
Alleged car thieves shot by Atlanta police identified

None of these shootings would have happened if they were "upstanding members of society".

By the way, there was recently a conviction in the Freddie Gray case.
Key Figure in Violent Freddie Gray Riots Gets Brutal Dose of Justice From Fed-Up Judge

I realize it is highly relevant to your need to denigrate black victims. It is irrelevant to the issue to dying in police custody. Just as being shot by the police is irrelevant to the issue of dying in custody.

 

[Frikki]

...

 

[Arctish]

I will give 100 Likes to any person who can name a District Attorney, State's Attorney, or Prosecutor who ran a re-election campaign based on getting tough on cops.

Shifting the goalposts: it's not about running on that, it's about not leaving their opponent to argue they're a pawn of the cops.

FYP.

 

[Derec]

And it has begun ...

0 for 4 now! She's on a roll!
Verdict for highest ranking officer in Freddie Gray case: Not guilty of all counts
Is she really going to go through the other 3 trials?

 

[ZiprHead]

Stay Klassy, Derec.

 

[Derec]

Stay Klassy, Derec.

What's wrong with making fun of the inept prosecutor who politicized this case? She knew she didn't have the evidence.
Especially since she was hyped into the stratosphere when she first announced the charges.
Expectation:

Who Is This Objectively Badass Attorney Running The Freddie Gray Investigation?

Reality:

Also I think she might be cheating on her husband or at least sexting somebody ...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Hey, what does Freddie Gray and Derec have in common? Don't worry, you can guess it pretty easily.

Stay Klassy, Derec.

What's wrong with making fun of the inept prosecutor who politicized this case.
Especially since she was hyped into the stratosphere when she first announced the charges.

Politicized? A guy died in police custody. Most people would be somewhat upset by this.