Freedom Of Speech?

[Rayschism]

I don't think there really is such a thing here in America. I have never felt it. Every time I have a discussion with someone, they get mad at me for having a difference of opinion, and scream and shout at me to shut up.

This is just an anecdotal story though.

My first experience actually comes from a now very old episode of an old sitcom called WKRP in Cincinnati in which the station was being pressured by a group of people called the moral majority to change their music to be more respectful of their beliefs.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZP0Hn31HA0[/YOUTUBE]

And I see nothing has changed. The only real difference is that now the use of violence to shut down unpopular opinions. The tactics those people used back then were to use financial pressure and muscle to shut down beliefs and opinions that were unpopular to them.

Free speech is always for people who are more equal.

But the irony is, those who are against the free expression of beliefs and opinions, have to use freedom of speech to express their own ideals.

As for me, I can not see any real appreciable difference between then and now.

Difference of opinions is such a scary thing. Always have been, and probably, more than likely, will always be.

Even in 2017.

 

[TSwizzle]

I don't think there really is such a thing here in America. I have never felt it. Every time I have a discussion with someone, they get mad at me for having a difference of opinion, and scream and shout at me to shut up.

This is just an anecdotal story though.

My first experience actually comes from a now very old episode of an old sitcom called WKRP in Cincinnati in which the station was being pressured by a group of people called the moral majority to change their music to be more respectful of their beliefs.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZP0Hn31HA0[/YOUTUBE]

And I see nothing has changed. The only real difference is that now the use of violence to shut down unpopular opinions. The tactics those people used back then were to use financial pressure and muscle to shut down beliefs and opinions that were unpopular to them.

Free speech is always for people who are more equal.

But the irony is, those who are against the free expression of beliefs and opinions, have to use freedom of speech to express their own ideals.

As for me, I can not see any real appreciable difference between then and now.

Difference of opinions is such a scary thing. Always have been, and probably, more than likely, will always be.

Even in 2017.

Nah, for the most part freedom of speech is protected. It may get challenged in court from time to time but by and large freedom of speech is a given.

 

[Bronzeage]

Freedom of speech also includes the right to tell you to shut up. There is nothing in our Constitutionally guaranteed freedom of speech that says anyone has to agree with you, be nice to you, or even tolerate you.

The First Amendment defines how the government may deal with you and your right to free speech. Relationships between citizens is not covered.

 

[bilby]

I don't think there really is such a thing here in America. I have never felt it. Every time I have a discussion with someone, they get mad at me for having a difference of opinion, and scream and shout at me to shut up.

As long as they don't arrest you, you have engaged in free speech.

They are just as free to get mad, scream, and/or shout, as you are to say whatever you want to say, to get mad, to scream or to shout.

Freedom doesn't only apply to you; It applies to everyone - even those you don't respect, like, agree with, or enjoy the company of.

If you are free to speak without contradiction or consequence, then what you have is not freedom - it's a tyranny, that happens to include you in the role of tyrant.

 

[RavenSky]

I don't think there really is such a thing here in America. I have never felt it. Every time I have a discussion with someone, they get mad at me for having a difference of opinion, and scream and shout at me to shut up.

Your trouble is that you do not understand what "freedom of speech" actually means. Unless those someones you claimed "screamed" at you were government officials threatening you with government action for your speech, your rights were not violated.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Your trouble is that you do not understand what "freedom of speech" actually means. :

I suspect they haven't covered that chapter in his Government class just yet.

 

[RavenSky]

Your trouble is that you do not understand what "freedom of speech" actually means. :

I suspect they haven't covered that chapter in his Government class just yet.

I think it is still called "social studies" in middle school

 

[Rayschism]

Freedom of speech also includes the right to tell you to shut up. There is nothing in our Constitutionally guaranteed freedom of speech that says anyone has to agree with you, be nice to you, or even tolerate you.

The First Amendment defines how the government may deal with you and your right to free speech. Relationships between citizens is not covered.

Just remember though, iff you can tell people to shut up, then others can tell you to shut up too.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Just remember though, iff you can tell people to shut up, then others can tell you to shut up too.

I'm pretty sure Bronzeage can remember that.
I think that's pretty much his entire point.
People can tell you to shut the fuck up and that has zip/nada/bupkes to do with infringing on your or their freedom of speech.


Is that too subtle a point for you?

 

[Rayschism]

Just remember though, iff you can tell people to shut up, then others can tell you to shut up too.

I'm pretty sure Bronzeage can remember that.
I think that's pretty much his entire point.
People can tell you to shut the fuck up and that has zip/nada/bupkes to do with infringing on your or their freedom of speech.


Is that too subtle a point for you?

Just remember, what goes around comes around

Is that too subtle for you?

And BTW, that is changing.

EDIT: I try not to tell people to shut up. It's just wrong. I just put in earplugs or turn off the TV. When I watched TV.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Just remember, what goes around comes around

Is that too subtle for you?

YOU were the one saying that you don't see 'freedom of speech' because people disagree with you and tell you to shut up.
It sounds like you have no real idea what FOS actually is.

But, yeah, I'm aware that there are consequences to any speech I make. I'm quite okay with that. spent some time defending the whole idea of that, as a matter of fact.

And BTW, that is changing.

What do you mean? I mean, aside from Trump's desires to redefine Freedom of Speech so that he can sue newspapers for pissing him off. What do you mean by 'changing?'

EDIT: I try not to tell people to shut up. It's just wrong. I just put in earplugs or turn off the TV. When I watched TV.

and you have a right to do that, too.

still not seeing any actual impact on your freedom of speech, there.

 

[Rayschism]

YOU were the one saying that you don't see 'freedom of speech' because people disagree with you and tell you to shut up.
It sounds like you have no real idea what FOS actually is.

But, yeah, I'm aware that there are consequences to any speech I make. I'm quite okay with that. spent some time defending the whole idea of that, as a matter of fact.

And BTW, that is changing.

What do you mean? I mean, aside from Trump's desires to redefine Freedom of Speech so that he can sue newspapers for pissing him off. What do you mean by 'changing?'

EDIT: I try not to tell people to shut up. It's just wrong. I just put in earplugs or turn off the TV. When I watched TV.

and you have a right to do that, too.

still not seeing any actual impact on your freedom of speech, there.

In NYC if you don't use people's personal pronouns you get fined heavily.

As far as impact goes, it goes along with expectations and demands of conformity.

For example, not being allowed to use the offensive words like fuck and nigger because it offends most people, so they tell you to shut upo. In the case of the media, the FCC fines radios and television stations thousands of dollars to tell people to sgut up.

 

[Keith&Co.]

In NYC if you don't use people's personal pronouns you get fined heavily.

And this impacts freedom of speech, how?

As far as impact goes, it goes along with expectations and demands of conformity.

Kind of a key phrase for you. What does it mean?

For example, not being allowed to use the offensive words like fuck and nigger because it offends most people, so they tell you to shut upo. In the case of the media, the FCC fines radios and television stations thousands of dollars to tell people to sgut up.

Ah. So, you want to use needlessly offensive words and society tells you not to in certain contexts, and that's conformity and loss of freedom of speech.

But are they actually saying 'shut up' or are they saying 'don't use any of the following words?' You can talk around the words, if you want to. I mean, there are a whole host of ways to indicate vulgarity without using such a low-hanging-fruit sort of word like 'fuck.'

And I'm sure there are places you can use 'nigger' to your heart's content. Just put phones in your ear and claim you're singing along to rap music.

 

[Rayschism]

And this impacts freedom of speech, how?

As far as impact goes, it goes along with expectations and demands of conformity.

Kind of a key phrase for you. What does it mean?

For example, not being allowed to use the offensive words like fuck and nigger because it offends most people, so they tell you to shut upo. In the case of the media, the FCC fines radios and television stations thousands of dollars to tell people to sgut up.

Ah. So, you want to use needlessly offensive words and society tells you not to in certain contexts, and that's conformity and loss of freedom of speech.

But are they actually saying 'shut up' or are they saying 'don't use any of the following words?' You can talk around the words, if you want to. I mean, there are a whole host of ways to indicate vulgarity without using such a low-hanging-fruit sort of word like 'fuck.'

And I'm sure there are places you can use 'nigger' to your heart's content. Just put phones in your ear and claim you're singing along to rap music.

Trying to control how people speak through heavy fines and possible jail time does not impact freedom of speech? Are you absolutely serious? Or are you pulling my leg?

And saying shut up is not any different than saying don't use those words because they make people feel bad. To say so is sophistry.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Trying to control how people speak through heavy fines and possible jail time does not impact freedom of speech? Are you absolutely serious? Or are you pulling my leg?

You're still free to say nigger and fuck and sockfucker and bullshit. Just not on radio or tv channels that are subject to government regulation. You also cannot use the airwaves to incite people to commit crimes.

And saying shut up is not any different than saying don't use those words because they make people feel bad. To say so is sophistry.

Wrong.
Limiting your ability to use certain expressions in certain comments is NOT the same as shutting you up completely.

 

[Rayschism]

You're still free to say nigger and fuck and sockfucker and bullshit. Just not on radio or tv channels that are subject to government regulation. You also cannot use the airwaves to incite people to commit crimes.

And saying shut up is not any different than saying don't use those words because they make people feel bad. To say so is sophistry.

Wrong.
Limiting your ability to use certain expressions in certain comments is NOT the same as shutting you up completely.

That is sheer utter nonsense they are one and the same.

And limiting words impacts freedom of speech, no matter how many dirty rotten tricks you try to mislead people with.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Interesting. The F word and the N word. I'd say since the founding of our nation, the usage of the F word (or similar type slang) has increased with time (anyone that watches classic cinema knows that to be the case), where as the use of the N word (rap lyrics aside) has diminished over time.

 

[Rayschism]

Interesting. The F word and the N word. I'd say since the founding of our nation, the usage of the F word (or similar type slang) has increased with time (anyone that watches classic cinema knows that to be the case), where as the use of the N word (rap lyrics aside) has diminished over time.

That might depend upon where one is in the country.

 

[RavenSky]

In NYC if you don't use people's personal pronouns you get fined heavily.

And this impacts freedom of speech, how?

Trying to control how people speak through heavy fines and possible jail time does not impact freedom of speech? Are you absolutely serious? Or are you pulling my leg?

It does not impact "freedom of speech" because it is a bullshit 2015 claim from the Washington Times and other fake news sources that was debunked by Snopes back in December 2015: http://www.snopes.com/transgender-pronouns-fine-nyc/

Here is another thorough explanation: http://gothamist.com/2016/05/19/gender_pronouns_false_fine.php

Here is the NYC code itself: http://www1.nyc.gov/site/cchr/law/legal-guidances-gender-identity-expression.page

You (and the original fake-news websites) claim that "if you don't use people's personal pronouns you get fined heavily."

Wrong. The correct information is that if you are an employer or a landlord (or law enforcement) and you willfully, wantonly and maliciously insist on using a different pronoun from the one the person has expressly asked you to use, then you MIGHT get fined if that person files a complaint and it can be shown that you "intentionally and repeatedly target transgender and gender non-conforming people with this type of harassment".

To clear up any confusion once and for all, the Commission offered us this statement, from Commissioner and Chair Carmelyn P. Malalis:

Accidentally misusing a transgender person's preferred pronoun is not a violation of the law and will not result in a fine...In fact, our guidance encourages people to ask transgender and gender non-conforming individuals how they would like to be addressed. The law is meant to address situations in which individuals intentionally and repeatedly target transgender and gender non-conforming people with this type of harassment. Transgender and gender non-conforming people experience discrimination on a daily basis, from exclusion from bathrooms to verbal harassment and even violence. We issued this guidance last year so employers and individuals understand what the law says and to ensure that every transgender individual in New York City is treated with the respect and dignity they deserve.

http://gothamist.com/2016/05/19/gender_pronouns_false_fine.php

Note, also, that contrary to your claim above, there is NO threat of "jail time" attached to this NYC guideline.

There have always been laws against harassment of others, and/or speech that causes injury to others. You even used the example of yelling "fire" in a crowded theater as one example of this.

 

[TSwizzle]

As far as impact goes, it goes along with expectations and demands of conformity.

I think there is more truth to this than some on here would care to admit. You may not get prosecuted for your speech but there are absolute consequences in other areas if you fail to conform to the prevailing PC orthodoxy.