Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[TV and credit cards]

You'll see at the end of paragraph 10 of 16:

In Gaza, Hamas officials have defended the demonstrations, ostensibly held to protest issues including the treatment of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails and Jewish visits to the Al Aqsa mosque compound, a site holy to both Muslims and Jews, who know it as the Temple Mount.

I knew I could find some mention of it in a western news source if I put my nose to it.
What I'm getting out of all of this is these ultranationalist Jewish groups are emboldened by Trump.il
So I'm guessing this is how it all started... this time.

Except that's an excuse, not the root cause. Why should the Muslims have the right to exclude the Jews? Jewish presence at a Jewish holy site isn't a trigger for war.

Well if you read the Al Jazeera articles, that’s how they’re painting it. And we’ll get scant, if any information from any western news service.
I don’t mind people clipping a post when they are only addressing a specific point but the Al Jazeera articles are most relevant as to the religious disrespect perpetrated by these Jewish groups. They’re painting it as the spark for this attack.

 

[crazyfingers]

Except that's an excuse, not the root cause. Why should the Muslims have the right to exclude the Jews? Jewish presence at a Jewish holy site isn't a trigger for war.

Lets just say that "ultra" Conservative religions of all kinds are a huge problem.

 

[Arctish]

"Unprovoked"?

The IDF and Hamas have been exchanging fire for weeks. The situation has been worsening since the economic crisis in Gaza sharply intensified in early September. Salaries were cut, the only way for Gazan goods to reach markets outside of Gaza was closed, people protesting their confinement began rioting and the soldiers confining them began shooting, etc., etc.

This is an ongoing conflict. Pretending everything was fine up until this morning is absurd.

Unprovoked in that it's not a response to Israeli acts. Israel doesn't restrict Gazan exports except in that they'll close the border crossings when Hamas attacks them. When you hear about Gazans not being able to export look to the real cause: Hamas.

Are you ignoring the cross border fire and increasing violence in Israel and the Occupied Territories from late Spring to early Autumn, or are you simply unaware of it and therefore think it didn't happen?

And just how long ago must something have happened to no longer qualify as provocation? Were the rocket attacks against Israel in May a provocation strong enough to justify retaliation by Israel now, six months later? If so, then everything Israelis did during that same time period is recent enough, too.

If Derec had said the attack was unprecedented, I doubt anyone would have questioned his statement. If he'd said it was unexpected, there probably would have been some discussion about always expecting violence in the Middle East. But calling it unprovoked is absurd. There has been near constant provocation between the Israelis and Palestinians for decades.

 

[Derec]

Democratic Socialists of America NYC chapter are endorsing and celebrating Palestinian terrorism, including indiscriminately shooting thousands of rockets at cities, murdering and kidnapping civilians, including children, among other atrocities.


Several members of Congress, particularly members of the Squad, are also DSA members. AOC and Jamaal "Fire Alarm" Bowman are also from NYC. What do they have to say about all this?

 

[laughing dog]

Democratic Socialists of America NYC chapter are endorsing and celebrating Palestinian terrorism, including indiscriminately shooting thousands of rockets at cities, murdering and kidnapping civilians, including children, among other atrocities.


Several members of Congress, particularly members of the Squad, are also DSA members. AOC and Jamaal "Fire Alarm" Bowman are also from NYC. What do they have to say about all this?

Nothing in your evidence directly condones any type of violence. Resistance need not mean violence.

Perhaps they do condone violence in resistance. But your post is long on inference and short in evidence.

 

[bilby]

When you see longstanding conflicts like this there's always some form of outside money.

Yeah, like the US funding of the IRA.

But ultimately the conflict would continue even without funds from other countries. Oppressed people never stop fighting, they just get less and less effective as their funding dries up.

 

[bilby]

Democratic Socialists of America NYC chapter are endorsing and celebrating Palestinian terrorism, including indiscriminately shooting thousands of rockets at cities, murdering and kidnapping civilians, including children, among other atrocities.

The part in bold was made up by you, and wasn't said or implied by the Democratic Socialists of America NYC chapter.

Dishonest reporting isn't helpful in this conflict, any more than is excessive violence in retaliation.

Your approach here is part of the problem, and your indulging in it without taking on any personal risk from the violence it might provoke is an act of despicable cowardice.

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Patooka]

Itamar Ben-Gvir must be fully erect, seeing as this is an opportunity to finally war crime like he always wanted to.

 

[JohnG]

Hamas siphons aid money (slated for crucial infrastructure) from the Palestinian people and Israel is run by a RWNJ.

No good can come of it.

 

[Politesse]

A barrage of 100s of rockets, including longer range ones reaching as far as Tel Aviv. Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib and the rest of the Squad must be rejoicing.

IDF's response to this must he swift and heavy. Including going after Hamas and Islamic Jihad brass. And the Biden administration should not push Israel into a premature ceisefire.

Hamas and other terrorists must be taught a lesson. As must their masters in Tehran.

Do you truly believe that if you kill enough terrorists, it will cause peace to happen? Or is it just that you really want to see people you hate killed?

 

[Bronzeage]

Anyone who has studied United States history will find the Israeli-Palestinian conflict familiar.

The United States exists because a wealthy and technologically advanced culture displaced native peoples. When the native peoples resisted, it was used as a justification for further displacements through warfare. Since war is expensive, the US made agreements with various native peoples to reserve specific areas for them to live. Any of these areas which were later found to have valuable resources were subject to the same westward encroachment which started on the Atlantic seaboard. The agreements were violated and the power differential made any real resistance suicidal.

The power differential between Israel and Palestine is not quite as stark as the differential between the Plains Indians and the US Cavalry and it's apparent the Palestinians have a different attitude toward suicide.

 

[Thomas II]

Anyone who has studied United States history will find the Israeli-Palestinian conflict familiar.

The United States exists because a wealthy and technologically advanced culture displaced native peoples. When the native peoples resisted, it was used as a justification for further displacements through warfare. Since war is expensive, the US made agreements with various native peoples to reserve specific areas for them to live. Any of these areas which were later found to have valuable resources were subject to the same westward encroachment which started on the Atlantic seaboard. The agreements were violated and the power differential made any real resistance suicidal.

The power differential between Israel and Palestine is not quite as stark as the differential between the Plains Indians and the US Cavalry and it's apparent the Palestinians have a different attitude toward suicide.

 

[Harry Bosch]

A barrage of 100s of rockets, including longer range ones reaching as far as Tel Aviv. Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib and the rest of the Squad must be rejoicing.

IDF's response to this must he swift and heavy. Including going after Hamas and Islamic Jihad brass. And the Biden administration should not push Israel into a premature ceisefire.

Hamas and other terrorists must be taught a lesson. As must their masters in Tehran.

This is clearly Hamas's attempt to stop the Israel/Saudi Arabia normalization or peace deal.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Hezbollah is making some noise now, too, but not doing anything substantial atm.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Several members of Congress, particularly members of the Squad, are also DSA members. AOC and Jamaal "Fire Alarm" Bowman are also from NYC. What do they have to say about all this?

I guess it depends on what your source of information is. One bizarre source claimed the following:

A barrage of 100s of rockets, including longer range ones reaching as far as Tel Aviv. Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib and the rest of the Squad must be rejoicing.

However, if we examine a different source, like one that merely hates AOC and the Squad, they quote them directly:

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) and other pro-Palestine reps condemned the cruel terror assault but also called for all violence to stop as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared Israel was “at war.”

“Today is devastating for all those seeking a lasting peace and respect for human rights,” AOC said in a statement. “I condemn Hamas’ attack in the strongest possible terms. No child and family should ever endure this kind of violence and fear, and this violence will not solve the ongoing oppression and occupation in the region.

“An immediate ceasefire and de-escalation is urgently needed to save lives.”

Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.), in part of her statement, also condemned “the horrific acts … against children, women, the elderly, and the unarmed people who are being slaughtered and taken hostage by Hamas” while calling for de-escalation.

Perhaps you could communicate with the former source to let him know it's a bad idea to make claims even worse than the NY Post would do.

 

[steve_bank]

Putin invades Ukraine on the claim it was yawls part of Russia and he is rightly the bad guy.

Jews in Plasticine declared a Jewish state, seized Arab land without compensation, did not allow Arabs to return to their homes after the war, and made a state of Jewish culture region, and language. Arabs in Israel were not given equal status as citizens.

In his last term Netanyahu said explicitly god gave Israel to Jews ad they will do whatever they please. Jerusalem was the Jewish center 200 0yeras ago, so it is rightly the capitol of Israel.

Israel has been doing a slow motion ethnic licensing of the West Bank. Palestinian homes and business bulldozed to make room for Jewish settlements.

Israel seized farmland held farmland owned by generations of a Palestinian family. Whwen questioned Netanyahu said it was just a small piece of land.

One rationale for taking Plasticine lands is there is no ownership documentation gong back in history, therefore they never really owned it to begin with.

Putin is a bad guy, but Israel gets a pass. No politician wants to be openly critical of a Jewish state for the risk of being labeled racist. Yet it is difficult if not impossible to get Israeli citizenship if you are not Jewish. I call that racist.

Netanyahu is the Israeli equivalent of an American Evangelical Christian biblical literalist.

 

[Bronzeage]

A barrage of 100s of rockets, including longer range ones reaching as far as Tel Aviv. Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib and the rest of the Squad must be rejoicing.

IDF's response to this must he swift and heavy. Including going after Hamas and Islamic Jihad brass. And the Biden administration should not push Israel into a premature ceisefire.

Hamas and other terrorists must be taught a lesson. As must their masters in Tehran.

This is clearly Hamas's attempt to stop the Israel/Saudi Arabia normalization or peace deal.

This is an astute observation and it invites the "if so, then?" analysis and then it gets weird.

Saudi money supports Palestinians and it goes to many various factions. We can assume this to be a fact. Just as not all Palestinian factions have the same goals, there are also Saudi factions and the Royal court does not control all money flowing to foreign causes. Rockets are expensive and secret rockets cost a premium. Someone paid extra the start this latest round of violence. It's probably easier to create a crisis to steer Saudi policy than to get into the circle that has the steering wheel.

What disadvantage does Hamas suffer if Saudi Arabia and Israel normalize relations? There certainly will be less money for rockets, but just as certainly more money for schools, sewer systems, and parking meters. This is bad news for the men at the top of the military food chain, but continued fighting means it's exactly these men who are the most sought target. A text message sent by one of their less well paid subservient soldiers can give a cruise missile all the information it needs to end his career. It's not totally irrational. A warlord, by definition has to remain at war in order to maintain power. The political instability that creates warlords requires this and there is no place for a warlord in a politically stable environment. It becomes a matter of greatly increasing the risk to one's life in order to insure survival. As I said, it gets weird.

Saudi Arabia is not the only source of warlord financing. Iran's interests run counter to the Saudis and also send money to Palestine. It would definitely be Iran's goal to sabotage any warming of relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia. Iran wants to be the big brother in a Middle Eastern hegemony. The Saudis have always maintained this status by judicious distribution of money to European and American interests, not military power. This is probably a better deal all things considered, if one of those things is Sadam Husain.

The final "if so, then?" is stark conclusion that the money sources that fuel this conflict, have no interest in peace between Israel and Palestine, despite what anyone says in public.

 

[steve_bank]

Another twist.

It is in Israel's interest along with Hamas to perpetuate the conflict.

If peace is achieved and an independent globally recognized Palestinian state is created the Palestinians have the standing to sue Israel in international courts. According to the pundits. Palestinians would sue to get land back.

Israel clearly does not want peace, it is colonizing the west bank.

Peace and a stable Palestinian state disenfranchises the Palestinian extremists like Hamas. They lose power and money. They will never submit to democratic processes and rule of law.

There was a Palestinian civil war between Hamas and Fatah having nothing to do with Israel.

 

[TomC]

The fundamental problem is the Islamist money that flows in for the purpose of violence.

As opposed to the billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars that have flowed into Israeli military? For decades?

I proposed a solution to this issue years ago. Give as much military hardware to the Islamist Gazans as we give the Israeli Zionists.
Tom