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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel
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DrZoidberg
Contributor
What we are seeing here goes far beyondLex talionis (disambiguation) - "lēx tāliōnis" is Latin for "law of retaliation" - the legal principle of exact retaliation.
The best-known statement of it is
CSPAN on X: ".@RepRashida: "I oppose Netanyahu's war crimes and want him gone too, but many of my colleagues that continue to tell me that do not want to condition the aid. They give it to a genocidal maniac." (vid link)" / X
(subtitled version)
Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib on X: "If you don’t support Netanyahu, if you are disgusted by the countless lifeless children being pulled out of the rubble, if you actually believe in upholding human rights and international law—vote no on a blank check to Netanyahu's genocide. (vid link)" / X
She also says that many of her colleagues tell her that they don't like Ben Netanyahu. But why do they send US taxpayers' money to him with no conditions? They also tell her that they want a two-state solution. Great, she says, so why don't they put that condition on US aid to Israel? BN has said over and over that he does not want a Palestinian state.
But this isn’t a retaliation. On 7/10 Hamas proved that Palestinian self rule is an existential threat to Israel. They can never be safe if Hamas are free to operate in Gaza.
I see this more as a realization that the two state solution hasn't worked out, and that, for whatever reason, the Palestinian people are not ready for self rule. Not yet. So they're rolling back that decision.
The Palestinians aren't being punished. They're being stripped of the right to have its own army. And Israel is doing what is necessary to make that happen. Its different
Arctish
Centimillionaire
Palestinian self-rule does not mean Hamas is free to operate in Gaza. That is a ridiculous excluded middle fallacy.What we are seeing here goes far beyond
The best-known statement of it is
CSPAN on X: ".@RepRashida: "I oppose Netanyahu's war crimes and want him gone too, but many of my colleagues that continue to tell me that do not want to condition the aid. They give it to a genocidal maniac." (vid link)" / X
(subtitled version)
Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib on X: "If you don’t support Netanyahu, if you are disgusted by the countless lifeless children being pulled out of the rubble, if you actually believe in upholding human rights and international law—vote no on a blank check to Netanyahu's genocide. (vid link)" / X
She also says that many of her colleagues tell her that they don't like Ben Netanyahu. But why do they send US taxpayers' money to him with no conditions? They also tell her that they want a two-state solution. Great, she says, so why don't they put that condition on US aid to Israel? BN has said over and over that he does not want a Palestinian state.
But this isn’t a retaliation. On 7/10 Hamas proved that Palestinian self rule is an existential threat to Israel. They can never be safe if Hamas are free to operate in Gaza.
I see this more as a realization that the two state solution hasn't worked out, and that, for whatever reason, the Palestinian people are not ready for self rule. Not yet. So they're rolling back that decision.
The Palestinians aren't being punished. They're being stripped of the right to have its own army. And Israel is doing what is necessary to make that happen. Its different
Palestinian self rule means Palestinian police go after terrorists and other criminals in the State of Palestine. It means The Palestinian government can seek assistance from foreign governments if it so desires.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Palestinian self-rule does not mean Hamas is free to operate in Gaza. That is a ridiculous excluded middle fallacy.What we are seeing here goes far beyond
The best-known statement of it is
CSPAN on X: ".@RepRashida: "I oppose Netanyahu's war crimes and want him gone too, but many of my colleagues that continue to tell me that do not want to condition the aid. They give it to a genocidal maniac." (vid link)" / X
(subtitled version)
Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib on X: "If you don’t support Netanyahu, if you are disgusted by the countless lifeless children being pulled out of the rubble, if you actually believe in upholding human rights and international law—vote no on a blank check to Netanyahu's genocide. (vid link)" / X
She also says that many of her colleagues tell her that they don't like Ben Netanyahu. But why do they send US taxpayers' money to him with no conditions? They also tell her that they want a two-state solution. Great, she says, so why don't they put that condition on US aid to Israel? BN has said over and over that he does not want a Palestinian state.
But this isn’t a retaliation. On 7/10 Hamas proved that Palestinian self rule is an existential threat to Israel. They can never be safe if Hamas are free to operate in Gaza.
I see this more as a realization that the two state solution hasn't worked out, and that, for whatever reason, the Palestinian people are not ready for self rule. Not yet. So they're rolling back that decision.
The Palestinians aren't being punished. They're being stripped of the right to have its own army. And Israel is doing what is necessary to make that happen. Its different
Palestinian self rule means Palestinian police go after terrorists and other criminals in the State of Palestine. It means The Palestinian government can seek assistance from foreign governments if it so desires.
Yes, but that has been true since the Palestinian Authority was founded. It has done nothing to stop Hamas. At any point.
Rockets have been continually raining on Israel.
How many second chances do you think PA deserves? Israel have had an angels patience with them already
Arctish
Centimillionaire
Do you honestly think that Israel would allow PA police officers to cross Israel from the West Bank to Gaza at a moment's notice to respond to reports of Hamas activities? Do you honestly think Israel would allow the PA to acquire the high tech surveillance equipment, armored vehicles, body armor, weapons, and ammunition it would need to take down Hamas, and to train up its police officers to the level of Delta Force commandos?Palestinian self-rule does not mean Hamas is free to operate in Gaza. That is a ridiculous excluded middle fallacy.What we are seeing here goes far beyond
The best-known statement of it is
CSPAN on X: ".@RepRashida: "I oppose Netanyahu's war crimes and want him gone too, but many of my colleagues that continue to tell me that do not want to condition the aid. They give it to a genocidal maniac." (vid link)" / X
(subtitled version)
Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib on X: "If you don’t support Netanyahu, if you are disgusted by the countless lifeless children being pulled out of the rubble, if you actually believe in upholding human rights and international law—vote no on a blank check to Netanyahu's genocide. (vid link)" / X
She also says that many of her colleagues tell her that they don't like Ben Netanyahu. But why do they send US taxpayers' money to him with no conditions? They also tell her that they want a two-state solution. Great, she says, so why don't they put that condition on US aid to Israel? BN has said over and over that he does not want a Palestinian state.
But this isn’t a retaliation. On 7/10 Hamas proved that Palestinian self rule is an existential threat to Israel. They can never be safe if Hamas are free to operate in Gaza.
I see this more as a realization that the two state solution hasn't worked out, and that, for whatever reason, the Palestinian people are not ready for self rule. Not yet. So they're rolling back that decision.
The Palestinians aren't being punished. They're being stripped of the right to have its own army. And Israel is doing what is necessary to make that happen. Its different
Palestinian self rule means Palestinian police go after terrorists and other criminals in the State of Palestine. It means The Palestinian government can seek assistance from foreign governments if it so desires.
Yes, but that has been true since the Palestinian Authority was founded. It has done nothing to stop Hamas. At any point.
Rockets have been continually raining on Israel.
How many second chances do you think PA deserves? Israel have had an angels patience with them already
Get serious.
The PA is never going to become that well armed and effective while Israel has any say in the matter.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Do you honestly think that Israel would allow PA police officers to cross Israel from the West Bank to Gaza at a moment's notice to respond to reports of Hamas activities? Do you honestly think Israel would allow the PA to acquire the high tech surveillance equipment, armored vehicles, body armor, weapons, and ammunition it would need to take down Hamas, and to train up its police officers to the level of Delta Force commandos?Palestinian self-rule does not mean Hamas is free to operate in Gaza. That is a ridiculous excluded middle fallacy.What we are seeing here goes far beyond
The best-known statement of it is
CSPAN on X: ".@RepRashida: "I oppose Netanyahu's war crimes and want him gone too, but many of my colleagues that continue to tell me that do not want to condition the aid. They give it to a genocidal maniac." (vid link)" / X
(subtitled version)
Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib on X: "If you don’t support Netanyahu, if you are disgusted by the countless lifeless children being pulled out of the rubble, if you actually believe in upholding human rights and international law—vote no on a blank check to Netanyahu's genocide. (vid link)" / X
She also says that many of her colleagues tell her that they don't like Ben Netanyahu. But why do they send US taxpayers' money to him with no conditions? They also tell her that they want a two-state solution. Great, she says, so why don't they put that condition on US aid to Israel? BN has said over and over that he does not want a Palestinian state.
But this isn’t a retaliation. On 7/10 Hamas proved that Palestinian self rule is an existential threat to Israel. They can never be safe if Hamas are free to operate in Gaza.
I see this more as a realization that the two state solution hasn't worked out, and that, for whatever reason, the Palestinian people are not ready for self rule. Not yet. So they're rolling back that decision.
The Palestinians aren't being punished. They're being stripped of the right to have its own army. And Israel is doing what is necessary to make that happen. Its different
Palestinian self rule means Palestinian police go after terrorists and other criminals in the State of Palestine. It means The Palestinian government can seek assistance from foreign governments if it so desires.
Yes, but that has been true since the Palestinian Authority was founded. It has done nothing to stop Hamas. At any point.
Rockets have been continually raining on Israel.
How many second chances do you think PA deserves? Israel have had an angels patience with them already
Get serious.
The PA is never going to become that well armed and effective while Israel has any say in the matter.
Mahamoud Abbas and the PA are officially allied with USA. I'm sure CIA could have helped them out, if they'd just asked. I'm also 100% sure that Israel would have helped them out, to the best of their ability, if they'd just ask. They wouldn't even need troops and police of their own to win this.
I think the reason Mahamoud Abbas hasn't done that is because it would be political suicide for him to be seen aiding Israel/Jews. The Palestinian people would take it as a betrayal, and he'd be murdered in minutes.
If you just read up on the kind of stuff normal Palestinians say, they live in a fantasy world. Most leftists in the west live in a fantasy world, regarding the Israel/Palestine conflict. Up here in northern Europe it's heavily politicised. Basically, if you are conservative you support Israel, and if you are progressive, you support Palestine. A dichotomy completely and utterly removed from the conflict in Palestine. Palestinians tend to be extremely conservative. As Muslims are prone to be.
Arctish
Centimillionaire
So the answer is no, you don't think Israel would allow PA police officers to cross Israel from the West Bank to Gaza at a moment's notice or equip and train up its police officers to the level of Delta Force commandos.
I don't either, and I'm sure everyone posting in this thread agrees with us.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
But it's not necessary for them to do that to stop Hamas. So I don't understand why you're so hung up on that? What do you think that proves? Police forces can cooperate across borders. They do it all the time. It's works great. Interpol is a thing.
I think the biggest problem PA faces with fighting Hamas is that the police force are very much pro-Hamas. Israel doesn't wan to help them, because then they'd be helping Hamas. So the basic problem is a problem of will. I don't think the PA police are interested in stopping Hamas. In order to get help from Israel and CIA they will need to prove they're comitted to stopping terrorism. Well, that's never going to happen. Because PA is comitted to helping terrorism. Hence the IDF now invading and neutralizing the PA. Actions have consequences.
Arctish
Centimillionaire
Well now you're just being silly.
Israel isn't neutralizing the PA. The PA is in the West Bank.
Israel is invading Gaza and fighting Hamas.
laughing dog
Contributor
Never mind
Jimmy Higgins
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Are the police in Mexico pro drug cartel or pro-don't want to be violently murdered by the drug cartel?
While PA forces can and most likely have Hamas supporters, the reality is that there is an inherent risk to their and their family's safety for going against Hamas, much like Mexico and Central America has issues with drug cartel retaliation.
Oh goody, the tilt-a-whirl Dr. Z. Palestinian position... now we are currently on, "They are committed to helping terrorism". Stay tuned for a post or two before we get Dr. Z's opinion that "The Palestinians are incapable of stopping Hamas."
You do understand that vacuums are a bad thing when trying to prevent terrorism, right?
A: We stopped Hamas!
B: How?
A: We neutralized the PA.
B: But what is going to fill that void?
A: ....
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Exactly! They can't be trusted to maintain order. It doesn’t really matter why. They have a job that they’re not doing. So someone else has to.
What? There’s a track record here. I posted a while back where the PA administrators handling aid were all caught on camera involved in the 7/10 attack. Since the UN doesn’t let known terrorists handle their aid, the UN stopped the shipments, until the PA could find someone in Gaza who wasn’t directly involved in the attack. I don’t know how it was resolved. But it shows that the PA are as guilty as Hamas. Ots pretty clear that Abbas alliance with USA is a sham. He, and the rest of the government, are completely aligned with Hamas
IDF are
repoman
Contributor
I think that you Zoidberg are ignoring that a good portion of Israelis that are influential and in power are looking to settle Gaza and expel (um, "voluntarily" resettle) the current Gazans.
This is not academic, this is why they are doing what they are doing, the shading of all of their propaganda and so on.
This is not academic, this is why they are doing what they are doing, the shading of all of their propaganda and so on.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Its not academic. But it is delusional. Its an old antisemitic conspiracy theory. Utter bullshit.
Arctish
Centimillionaire
Last year, a few weeks before the October 7th attack, Benjamin Netanyahu addressed the United Nations and unveiled a map of what he called the "new Middle East". The map depicts all of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem as a part of Israel.
Also last year, Israel began annexing the West Bank in violation of international law.
Netanyahu is being coy about his post-war plans for Gaza, but if past performance is indicative of future results, they include ethnic cleansing, illegal settlements, and annexation. I mean, this is Benjamin 'Death to Rabin' Netanyahu we're talking about. He's not going to pass up an opportunity to put Zionist settlers in newly cleansed parts of Gaza.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
That's a pretty weak example.
Yes, the fanatical Jewish settlers in the West Bank are a problem. But Netanhayu has done a lot more to stop their activities..While he has allowed Israel to incorporate occupied territory into Israel, its very limited. And there's only 140 settlements in the West bank. A huge sparsely populated region.
The main problem for Israel is that you can't just tell civilians what to do. They’re just going to do their thing. The settlers are total cunts and use every legal loophole to stay. Fully exploiting that they have more money than Palestinians and can buy themselves out of conflicts
Again, more antisemitic nonsense. I think Netanyahu is an awful leader. But then again I am not conservative. He is. He's not worse than Trump or Bush IMHO
Arctish
Centimillionaire
It's a very recent example.
Agreed.
Please provide examples of Netanyahu stopping the activities of the Jewish settlers in the West Bank.
It is completely illegal.
Are you trying to hand-wave away the theft of land and resources by pointing out the Israelis haven't stolen everything (yet)?
Only 140 settlements?
There should not even be one. If there were only 10 or 20 it would still be blatant theft of land and resources. That there are 140 and the number is growing is a flagrant violation of both international law and the Rights of indigenous people.
Please provide evidence that supports this claim.
Perhaps, but I'd like to see your evidence.
What's anti-Semitic about noting Netanyahu's history of supporting ethnic cleansing, illegal settlements, and annexation of the Occupied Territories, and drawing a conclusion based on his actions?
DrZoidberg
Contributor
It's a bullshit example. It in no way telegrafs Netanyahu's intention. He's just playing politics, pretending to satisfy the ideological needs of all his constituents. Like politians have always done.
You didn't google this, did you? They do it all the time. It's an ever ongoing project. These settlers are a nuisance. They way these settlers operate is that they set up buildings that they could argue aren't permanent buildings. Camping in the wilderness is legal. They then make them more substantial over time. At some point the army removes them. Sometimes the settlers get lucky, and get away with it, and it turns into a permanent settlement. But this can take decades and all are special cases, based on the settlements adding value to the surrounding community somehow. But most of these settlements aren't really permanet villages. They're like trailer parks. Yes, there are notable examples of the contrary. Like cookie cutter USA style suburbian villas (just to cover maximum land for minimum investement).
One of the main problems with both the west bank and Gaza is that the Palestinian economy is complete garbage. The settlers can divide an conquer the Palestinians with money. Which of course annoy them as a collective.
And it's important to understand that, pretty much, all other Jews, hate the settlers. They all seem to think they're utter cunts who are ruining this for everyone. It's not like the settlers have a free pass.
You said that Netanyahu wasn't doing anything to stop it. I'm saying that he is. Netanyahu is a conservative. He want's the political support from the Orthodox hardliners. Ie the cunty settlers who do this. He gives them as little as possible in order to keep their votes.
I'm not defening the practice. But I think you're exaggerating what is happening.
Israel has the rule of law. It's not a dictatorship. It's a modern liberal democratic state. Do you also question this?
In a democracy citizens have rights. Which these settlers are exploiting to the max.
My sources on that is my Israeli ex wife and her Israeli family (living in Jerusalem).
Him somtimes letting some Jewish extremists get away with some of their nonsense, just to keep them calm, is hardly him supporting ethnic cleansing. That's hysterical.
Also, realise that Israel has been the target of suicide bombs for decades. Rockets continaully keep raining on Israel. Israelis are incredibly sick of this and some are taking extreme action. You can't expect the Jews just to bend over and take it forever. And some don't. Netanyuahu also need to manage these Jews (justified) rage.
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lpetrich
Contributor
What do you call this?
- Israeli settlers hold conference on resettlement in Gaza | Reuters - January 28, 202412:12 PM PST
- US, UK, France blast Israeli confab on Gaza resettlement attended by PM's allies | The Times of Israel - 30 January 2024, 12:18 am - "White House takes particular issue with ‘incendiary’ rhetoric on displacing Palestinians, saying it goes against what Netanyahu claims is government policy"
- Israeli ministers join gathering calling for resettlement of Gaza | News | Al Jazeera - 29 Jan 2024 - "The far-right conference urges the government to set up new Jewish settlements in Gaza and the occupied West Bank."
- Israeli ministers attend conference calling for ‘voluntary migration’ of Palestinians | Israel | The Guardian - Mon 29 Jan 2024 10.05 EST - "Attendance of 11 cabinet ministers and 15 coalition members of Knesset appears to violate ICJ ruling on Gaza war"
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Yes, politicians say stuff to appeal to their voters. So?
Not everything all politicians say becomes policy. Most of it doesn’t go anywhere because there's opposition in the parlament. Very often politicians make preposterous demands, they hope will get shot down, because its inrealistic. Insert any populist from any country.
Again, Israel has proportional representation in its parlament. There's always going to be extremists there. That doesn’t mean they get to dictate policy