Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[ZiprHead]

FYI, the news reporting right now has an absolutely bizarre slant against Israel. All context is removed. So I don't blame you for sipping the antisemitic cool aid. The world is marinated in it. You really need to make an effort now to filter out the bullshit. Not that much of an effort. All the information is in the news reporting. But you will need to make an effort yourself to absorb what it being said, and figure out how it all makes sense.

Everyone is against you but you are the only one that recognises the truth. Do you realize what that sounds like?

It's like if you've had relationships with a lot of partners and they all failed.

It's not you, it's me.

No, it's you.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But it's really really dumb that you're trying to accuse me of laziness and not reading things fully. That's your problem.

Well, when you are the one not reading my posts and attributing absurd and inaccurate positions on me, that kind of makes it your issue, not mine.

As far as your alleged opinions, when you say a thing that is a pro-palestine propaganda planted piece, then the conclusion of what you mean is clear. Perhaps not to you. But it to anyone who knows the context.

Saying that the western nations don't want other national intelligence orgs infiltrating means and production to assassinate targets isn't "pro-palestine propaganda". It is the truth. You think the US or UK wants China slipping their agents into a factory to deal with dissidents overseas?

The fact that you're trying to come off as the one who understands more than me is just embarrasing. Just stop.

I'd prefer you just respond to what I actually say, instead of the alternative claptrap your brain translate it into.

Just like Hamas they build their military head quarters under hospitals. They keep shooting rockets into Israel, and have for decades

The beeper attack cut off the snakes head. A genius attack that only targeted the most guilty.

I really don't understand who could have a problem with the attack. Even if you are a Hezboallah supporter you should be able to appreciate the surgical precision of the attack. Almost nobody innocent got hurt or killed

I clearly explained why an attack via those methods would definitely be cause of concern if the method spread. But you didn't bother to read what I wrote.

You are correct that I don't remember everything you've said on every issue. You got me there.

I'd be referring to the last couple of posts.

Why would those method spread?

You mean like how the CIA developed drone technology and used it to target a terrorist early in the W Admin, becoming a widespread military and terrorist tactic? How could that possibly happen?

It was such a one off. Its not repeatable.

Sure it is.

And even if those methods do spread... why would it be a problem? Killing the correct target while sparing civilians, isn't that exactly the best method?

It'd be a problem such as with the drones and what they are targeting.

Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation who doesn't give a fuck about right or wrong, or treating anyone with respect. They just want to win. You are aware that it was Hezbollah who kept Assad in power? The beeper attack is the final (nail in the coffin) reason the Assad regime fell. Israel deserve the biggest medal in the world for this, and if you struggle with understanding that, it says a lot about your fucked moral compas, and standing up for what is right. The quote from the German priest who didn't speak up when the Nazis came for various people is apt. How about taking a stand and fighting back against evil?

Jebus, that is unhinged.

The best quote on this I have heard is something along the lines of this, "we (the international community) encourage Israel to do our dirty work, and then when they do it we do we condemn them for it."

Yet, the western nations DIDN'T condemn the beeper attack. The western nations allowed Israel to manage Hamas... it was just that Netanyahu sucks at this stuff. Again, the western nation didn't give Israel an indefinite blank check.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

60 Minutes had a segment on the pager attack. Click the link to watch on Youtube.

This sort of stuff is uberly sensitive, and I wouldn't expect Mossad to let a single detail slip into the public. The fact that the attack occurred and seemingly very effectively would stand on its own. Of course, Mossad could also be lying too and this is just psychological tactics against Hamas and Hezbollah.

 

[TomC]

As a supporter of multiethnic democracy, and the peace and prosperity that comes with that...

I'm cheering on Netanyahu and Likud and the IDF and Mossad.

They've trashed the most violent Islamic terrorists in their immediate area. They took out Hezbollah, with hardly a casualty. That brought down the Assad regime, which the USA and ISIS couldn't manage together. The Gazan leadership is getting their butts kicked due to their terrorist attack on Israel. The West Bank leadership is also losing.

I'm not happy that it took this much violence to accomplish that. It's unfortunate that Islamic people are so prone to tribalism and violent supremacy, but that's the reality.

Fukkin A Bibi!
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

As a supporter of multiethnic democracy, and the peace and prosperity that comes with that...

I'm cheering on Netanyahu and Likud and the IDF and Mossad.

They've trashed the most violent Islamic terrorists in their immediate area. They took out Hezbollah, with hardly a casualty. That brought down the Assad regime, which the USA and ISIS couldn't manage together. The Gazan leadership is getting their butts kicked due to their terrorist attack on Israel. The West Bank leadership is also losing.

I'm not happy that it took this much violence to accomplish that. It's unfortunate that Islamic people are so prone to tribalism and violent supremacy, but that's the reality.

Fukkin A Bibi!
Tom

The notion that Israel brought down the Assad regime is absurd. A combination of Islamic rebel forces, the Kurds and Turkish forces did the heavy work.

 

[TomC]

The notion that Israel brought down the Assad regime is absurd. A combination of Islamic rebel forces, the Kurds and Turkish forces did the heavy work.

Israel trashed Hezbollah with hardly a civilian casualty. Immediately followed by the collapse of the Assad regime.

Somehow, Islamic terrorists manage to get the international community to pretend that is a bad thing.

Damn, you Islamic terrorists apologetics are good. At manipulating the media.

Tom

 

[laughing dog]

The notion that Israel brought down the Assad regime is absurd. A combination of Islamic rebel forces, the Kurds and Turkish forces did the heavy work.

Israel trashed Hezbollah with hardly a civilian casualty. Immediately followed by the collapse of the Assad regime.

Hezbollah operated primarily in Lebanon which is not Syria. Nor did the Assad regime immediately collapse after Hezbollah’s thrashing.

Somehow, Islamic terrorists manage to get the international community to pretend that is a bad thing.

Damn, you Islamic terrorists apologetics are good. At manipulating the media.

Tom
[/QUOTE] Nothing I wrote could reasonably be construed as disapproval of the fall of Assad or the thrashing of Hezbollah.

Nor am I manipulating media. Are you posting drunk or just stupid?

 

[DrZoidberg]

FYI, the news reporting right now has an absolutely bizarre slant against Israel. All context is removed. So I don't blame you for sipping the antisemitic cool aid. The world is marinated in it. You really need to make an effort now to filter out the bullshit. Not that much of an effort. All the information is in the news reporting. But you will need to make an effort yourself to absorb what it being said, and figure out how it all makes sense.

Everyone is against you but you are the only one that recognises the truth. Do you realize what that sounds like?

It's like if you've had relationships with a lot of partners and they all failed.

It's not you, it's me.

No, it's you.

1. I am not alone on this forum or in this thread.

2. I'm not alone outside this forum. There's plenty of sensible voices in the press.

3. Even if I was, the truth isn't democratic. The pro-palestinian media bias is so extreme right now, you need to squint really hard to cling to the narrative.

4. Hamas, (the government of Gaza) is such an overtly vile and evil organisation they couldn't have made it any easier to condemn them.

The disconnect between the mainstream media narrative and reality is extreme right now. Regarding Israel, it always, was. But now the implications of that twisted mainstream media narrative is forced to the surface and we can see it for what it is. Old stale antisemitism. The same old antisemitism that led to the holocaust. Nothing has changed. We just justify the antisemitism with new stories. Its still just antisemitism

 

[Derec]

Hezbollah operated primarily in Lebanon which is not Syria.

Hezbollah was strongly involved in the Syrian Civil War. Where have you been?
The Escalating Conflict with Hezbollah in Syria

Nor did the Assad regime immediately collapse after Hezbollah’s thrashing.

Actions often have delayed consequences. In this case, when Admiral-General Jolani was marching down from Aleppo to Homs and then down to Damascus, Hezbollah was too weak to intervene, even though Lebanon is right next door to places like Homs.

The reason Hezbollah was too weak to intervene? Israel. Before the thrashing Israel gave Hezbollah, they surely would have intervened and engaged HTS forces.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As a supporter of multiethnic democracy, and the peace and prosperity that comes with that...

I'm cheering on Netanyahu and Likud and the IDF and Mossad.

Netanyahu helped get Rabin murdered.

They've trashed the most violent Islamic terrorists in their immediate area. They took out Hezbollah, with hardly a casualty. That brought down the Assad regime, which the USA and ISIS couldn't manage together. The Gazan leadership is getting their butts kicked due to their terrorist attack on Israel. The West Bank leadership is also losing.

Talk to me in 5 years about these gains. Gaza lays partially in ruins, former-ISIS formally controls parts of Syria,, who knows about the rest. And Trump is apparently working on ending Israel or the Middle East (both?) itself.

I'm not happy that it took this much violence to accomplish that.

Accomplish what? You listed off temporary gains as some sort of long-term sustained outcome. It took a lot of violence to achieve what is now only temporary gains.

It's unfortunate that Islamic people are so prone to tribalism and violent supremacy, but that's the reality.

Well, Europe wasn't, but it was at its own throat over wars for millennia and most recently the 1940s... which saw the largest scale crimes on the continent committed. So, let's take ourselves off the pedestal there. The Middle East is not rife with democracies and widespread freedoms. The far east is just getting into it in the last 40 to 50 years, Europe and the West 50 to 250 years*.

* skin color varies

Fukkin A Bibi!

To fucking hell with Bibi who was caught with his pants down when the onslaught come down on Israel. The guy is 150% asshole. Comparing him to Hamas isn't a good comparison to determine if someone isn't a damn asshole. And most people in Israel don't even want him to run the country.

 

[DrZoidberg]

As a supporter of multiethnic democracy, and the peace and prosperity that comes with that...

I'm cheering on Netanyahu and Likud and the IDF and Mossad.

Netanyahu helped get Rabin murdered.

No he didn't. Netanyahu was asked to limit free speech in order to calm down a situation Rabin had created. Netanyahu was too much a fan of modern democratic values to allow himself to curtail personal freedoms in the name of safety.

If you don't understand this then you don't understand that living in a free society also comes with costs.

They've trashed the most violent Islamic terrorists in their immediate area. They took out Hezbollah, with hardly a casualty. That brought down the Assad regime, which the USA and ISIS couldn't manage together. The Gazan leadership is getting their butts kicked due to their terrorist attack on Israel. The West Bank leadership is also losing.

Talk to me in 5 years about these gains. Gaza lays partially in ruins, former-ISIS formally controls parts of Syria,, who knows about the rest. And Trump is apparently working on ending Israel or the Middle East (both?) itself.

Politics is the art of the possible. The Assad regime was secular, but still a loyal committed member of a conspiracy to destroy Israel.

Sometimes we just need to work with what we've got.

I'm not happy that it took this much violence to accomplish that.

Accomplish what? You listed off temporary gains as some sort of long-term sustained outcome. It took a lot of violence to achieve what is now only temporary gains.

I think Israel is in a better position now to achieve a long-term sustained peace. I think the Muslims needed to be taught that if they use the violent rout Israel will unleash hell upon them. Hamas was also taught that the west cannot be manipulated by using Palestinian civilians as human shields.

Up until now the Palestinians have been intransigent, unreasonable and extremely aggressive. And have now paid a heavy cost for this continued behaviour. I think the Israeli reaction was necessary.

Perhaps the Palestinians will never learn. Maybe. But now they at least are aware that their aggressive behaviour can come with a heavy cost. That's a good thing

It's unfortunate that Islamic people are so prone to tribalism and violent supremacy, but that's the reality.

Well, Europe wasn't, but it was at its own throat over wars for millennia and most recently the 1940s... which saw the largest scale crimes on the continent committed. So, let's take ourselves off the pedestal there. The Middle East is not rife with democracies and widespread freedoms. The far east is just getting into it in the last 40 to 50 years, Europe and the West 50 to 250 years*.

* skin color varies

I don't think Tom C has put Europe on a pedestal nor knows European history.

Yes, exactly, the Middle-East is on a trajectory towards democracy and freedom. But that doesn't mean Arabs shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions.

Fukkin A Bibi!

To fucking hell with Bibi who was caught with his pants down when the onslaught come down on Israel. The guy is 150% asshole. Comparing him to Hamas isn't a good comparison to determine if someone isn't a damn asshole. And most people in Israel don't even want him to run the country.

Yes, Netanyahu is an asshole. You'll have no argument from me.

 

[Tigers!]

Let's just skip over the wordplay and get to the heart of the matter.

People have wondered what can be done to bring about a lasting peace. Some have suggested following historical precedent and negotiating terms based on successful peace negotiations like the ones at the end of WWII, the ones that ended the Warring States Period in Japan, the ones that allowed the French, Germans, and Italians to form a united Switzerland, the one that allowed Bangladesh to separate from Pakistan, etc.

IMO that's the pragmatic approach. Not all such attempts are immediately successful, but some have been and the rest are works-in-progress.

This approach will work when one side had had enough or both realise enough is enough.
We are not there yet in the ME.
All parties are still willing to go on and on and on.

 

[robnisch]

Map wars in the Middle East: How cartographers charted and helped shape a regional conflict

How maps’ names and border territories − and what they omit - can project different political objectives.

theconversation.com

I found this an interesting perspective on what has happened there.

 

[Elixir]

Looks like Bibi has full backing of the apricot to proceed with genocide as planned.

 

[ideologyhunter]

If The Asshole's Gaza World Casino and Boutiques plan doesn't cause a war or an uptick in terrorist events, it'll be because the whole world outside of Magaville can see that he's entered his "Grandpa thinks there are space men in the attic" years.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As a supporter of multiethnic democracy, and the peace and prosperity that comes with that...

I'm cheering on Netanyahu and Likud and the IDF and Mossad.

Netanyahu helped get Rabin murdered.

No he didn't. Netanyahu was asked to limit free speech in order to calm down a situation Rabin had created. Netanyahu was too much a fan of modern democratic values to allow himself to curtail personal freedoms in the name of safety.

If you don't understand this then you don't understand that living in a free society also comes with costs.

Wow! Netanyahu fanned the flames of radicalism that consumed the life of Rabin because any idea of mediation and moderation was deemed evil by Netanyahu. Bibi got what he wanted with Rabin being slaughtered at the hands of an Israeli radical.

How you can spin that as "free speech" is incomprehensible.

They've trashed the most violent Islamic terrorists in their immediate area. They took out Hezbollah, with hardly a casualty. That brought down the Assad regime, which the USA and ISIS couldn't manage together. The Gazan leadership is getting their butts kicked due to their terrorist attack on Israel. The West Bank leadership is also losing.

Talk to me in 5 years about these gains. Gaza lays partially in ruins, former-ISIS formally controls parts of Syria,, who knows about the rest. And Trump is apparently working on ending Israel or the Middle East (both?) itself.

Politics is the art of the possible. The Assad regime was secular, but still a loyal committed member of a conspiracy to destroy Israel.

Sometimes we just need to work with what we've got.

Work with what we got? What type of Rumsfeld bullshit is that? That is spin on 'the region is destabilizing'.

I'm not happy that it took this much violence to accomplish that.

Accomplish what? You listed off temporary gains as some sort of long-term sustained outcome. It took a lot of violence to achieve what is now only temporary gains.

I think Israel is in a better position now to achieve a long-term sustained peace.

No one in this thread is satisfied that Israel is remotely safer today... only that their actions made them safer in the past year.

I think the Muslims needed to be taught that if they use the violent rout Israel will unleash hell upon them. Hamas was also taught that the west cannot be manipulated by using Palestinian civilians as human shields.

Then why is Loren Pechtel (and everyone else in the thread) pretty certain Hamas will strike again?

Fukkin A Bibi!

To fucking hell with Bibi who was caught with his pants down when the onslaught come down on Israel. The guy is 150% asshole. Comparing him to Hamas isn't a good comparison to determine if someone isn't a damn asshole. And most people in Israel don't even want him to run the country.

Yes, Netanyahu is an asshole. You'll have no argument from me.

Odd, you condoned his actions which helped precipitate the assassination of Rabin.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If The Asshole's Gaza World Casino and Boutiques plan doesn't cause a war or an uptick in terrorist events, it'll be because the whole world outside of Magaville can see that he's entered his "Grandpa thinks there are space men in the attic" years.

The trouble is it feeds into Hamas' and Iran's narrative. So it almost definitely makes things more destabilized as Trump is scripting their propaganda himself. Literally telling desperate, unemployed 15 year old hot heads that they are sacrificing their lives for their home. Forget how this impacts how the other nations feel. As previously noted Egypt and Jordan's positions are bought and paid for and Trump is threatening that... and most in the GOP seem to be too stupid to actually get that (learning history is woke).

Add to that Syria's terribly fractured position, the only thing that is kind of helping Israel at the moment is the current bashing down of Hamas and the coordinated Hezbollah attach. But those gains are temporary at the moment.

I suppose there could be hidden genius in Trump's statement. He is so damn stubborn he could do it which forces the Arabs to doo something. Part of the Gazan solution, as I've noted involves getting the Arab nations involved, to support (or in the current situation rebuild) Gaza. But it is hard to think that Trump and his Admin are remotely that savvy.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

2) Even if true the Israeli action that started the war was it's existence. Thus the only "solution" along those lines is Hitler's Final Solution. Is that what you want?

So in your universe, one must support genocide, because they only alternative to genocide is genocide? As opposed to, say, not genocide?

That's not what Loren is saying, and you should be able to infer that on your own, Poli.

Israel has tried repeatedly for decades to keep some sort of peace with muslims living within Israel's borders - and whether you like it or not, Palestine is not a separate country, it is part of the nation of Israel, where Israel has essentially ceded a degree of independence within it's own border to the people who live there. But the residents of that stretch of land have repeated initiated altercations with Israel, including this most recent situation.

Your history omits crucial facts. Gaza was part of Egypt. It wasn't until 1956 when Israel invaded Gaza that it became part of the nation of Israel.

The only solution that Hamas, Palestine, and the entire Muslim region will accept is the extermination of Jews. They've proven that over and over again.

It takes a whole lot of ignorance to come up with that claim. The entire Muslim region encompasses many areas that don't really care one way or the other about Israel.

We should never generalize all conservatives as bigots, that's unfair! Anyway all Muslims in the Middle East are bigots.

 

[Elixir]

2) Even if true the Israeli action that started the war was it's existence. Thus the only "solution" along those lines is Hitler's Final Solution. Is that what you want?

So in your universe, one must support genocide, because they only alternative to genocide is genocide? As opposed to, say, not genocide?

That's not what Loren is saying, and you should be able to infer that on your own, Poli.

Israel has tried repeatedly for decades to keep some sort of peace with muslims living within Israel's borders - and whether you like it or not, Palestine is not a separate country, it is part of the nation of Israel, where Israel has essentially ceded a degree of independence within it's own border to the people who live there. But the residents of that stretch of land have repeated initiated altercations with Israel, including this most recent situation.

Your history omits crucial facts. Gaza was part of Egypt. It wasn't until 1956 when Israel invaded Gaza that it became part of the nation of Israel.

The only solution that Hamas, Palestine, and the entire Muslim region will accept is the extermination of Jews. They've proven that over and over again.

It takes a whole lot of ignorance to come up with that claim. The entire Muslim region encompasses many areas that don't really care one way or the other about Israel.

We should never generalize all conservatives as bigots, that's unfair! Anyway all Muslims in the Middle East are bigots.

Bigotry is all the rage! The majority of Americans elected a Bigot-in-Chief to make bigotry cool again, and gave him a mandate to destroy democracy so that bigotry may thrive.
Now the ‘Murkin BiC has teamed up with Israel’s Prime Minister of Bigotry to fashion a final one-State “solution” and develop the Trumpworld Global Casino and Pleasure Palace Resort in Gaza.
Hopefully no Jews or White People will be harmed in the making of this TV movie. But it should sell well, with plenty of bloodshed, violence and gratuitous non-consensual sex.

 

[Jarhyn]

Who had ethnic cleansing on their bingo card?

That's the free space when it comes to the middle east.