Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[laughing dog]

So, you are willing to let the hostages to die, as long as many noncombatants to die as well. I do admire your honesty.

What a damnable strawman!
You are arguing that both hostages and the Gazans who don't matter should keep on dying because Hamas just isn't willing to stop committing war crimes.

No, that is what you are proposing with your policy. Hamas has demonstrated it does not care what happens to Gazan noncombatants. Why would any rational human being think that if Israel prevented food and water from entering Gaza that the remaining hostages would remain alive?

So again I will ask the question. What is your solution to prevent Hamas from rocketing Israel and taking hostages in the future?

Is that point of that non-sequitur to prove you don't read the answers to the question that you pose (I've answered it in this thread in the past or to avoid answering the question I asked?

Really, do you think that TomC's proposal to prevent food and water from entering Gaza that the remaining hostages would remain alive?

 

[laughing dog]

Netanyahu says Gaza ceasefire will end if Hamas does not return hostages by Saturday - live updates

The Israeli prime minister says the military will "return to intense fighting until Hamas is finally defeated" if the hostages are not freed.

www.bbc.com

Here's Trump saying something intelligent for once. Releasing all hostages should be a prerequisite to enter into any peace talks IMHO

And again, we manage to use the perfect to ruin the pragmatic. Nothing short of all of the hostages should be the deal. But it was never going to be the deal. It is sickening that Hamas is water dripping hostages at 3 a week. But that is 3 a week that have been freed from hell. How much longer should those have waited, so that everyone could be released, perhaps never?

Personally, I think that Israel should give the Gazans Who Matter (AKA Hamas and their supporters) two days to deliver all the kidnap victims. If GWM choose not to do that, shut off the water and power again until the hostages are freed. If two days later the hostages are not all freed, shut the borders to any incoming aid. Or will the international community make the perfect the enemy of the good by screaming "collective punishment" while hand waving the source of the problem?

It is a gawd damn war crime. You can't compare people labeling it as such as to clutching pearls. This shouldn't be treated as a war to hell, where the side who thinks they have the highest moral high ground can do a bit of digging.

It wouldn't be right and most importantly it wouldn't lead to anyone being released. So what in the heck do you plan to gain from it? You think if you kick the Gazans a few more times they'll have an epiphany and rise up against Hamas... to get gunned down. This is more of the George W Bush era "whatever it takes", which was actually "whatever we think we'll need to do to get an absurd sense of old school god righteousness because they wronged us."

Yes, Hamas kidnapping civilians is a war crime. Nice that you agree.

What's worse is that the international community is just letting Hamas get away with it. No other country has offered support or troops to Israel to help them

Where is Israel getting those 2000 lb bombs? When Iran sent that barrage of missiles at Israel, did Israel deal with that alone?

Its only USA helping Israel.

That is untrue.   List_of_military_aid_to_Israel_during_the_Gaza_war shows 8 other countries. When Iran sent its missile barrage at Israel, Jordan helped shoot down missiles.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Netanyahu says Gaza ceasefire will end if Hamas does not return hostages by Saturday - live updates

The Israeli prime minister says the military will "return to intense fighting until Hamas is finally defeated" if the hostages are not freed.

www.bbc.com

Here's Trump saying something intelligent for once. Releasing all hostages should be a prerequisite to enter into any peace talks IMHO

And again, we manage to use the perfect to ruin the pragmatic. Nothing short of all of the hostages should be the deal. But it was never going to be the deal. It is sickening that Hamas is water dripping hostages at 3 a week. But that is 3 a week that have been freed from hell. How much longer should those have waited, so that everyone could be released, perhaps never?

Personally, I think that Israel should give the Gazans Who Matter (AKA Hamas and their supporters) two days to deliver all the kidnap victims. If GWM choose not to do that, shut off the water and power again until the hostages are freed. If two days later the hostages are not all freed, shut the borders to any incoming aid. Or will the international community make the perfect the enemy of the good by screaming "collective punishment" while hand waving the source of the problem?

It is a gawd damn war crime. You can't compare people labeling it as such as to clutching pearls. This shouldn't be treated as a war to hell, where the side who thinks they have the highest moral high ground can do a bit of digging.

It wouldn't be right and most importantly it wouldn't lead to anyone being released. So what in the heck do you plan to gain from it? You think if you kick the Gazans a few more times they'll have an epiphany and rise up against Hamas... to get gunned down. This is more of the George W Bush era "whatever it takes", which was actually "whatever we think we'll need to do to get an absurd sense of old school god righteousness because they wronged us."

Yes, Hamas kidnapping civilians is a war crime. Nice that you agree.

Seriously?

What's worse is that the international community is just letting Hamas get away with it. No other country has offered support or troops to Israel to help them

The international community gave Israel a blank check and looked the other way for months. Netanyahu took too long and achieved questionable objectives.

Yes. They looked the other way instead of helping Israel.

Because they knew the Israeli response was going to be morally questionable and generally accepted limitations on warfare were going to be broken.

I don't think Israels response was morally questionable. I think it was appropriate, considering what they responded to.

So they let Israel see to it, no questions asked. There was a time limit though. It wasn't an indefinite blank check. Do you understand nothing about diplomacy?

You mean that we should encourage Israel to keep going until all hostages are recovered? I hope that is what you mean.

Hamas is the government of Gaza. When they attacked they acted as the representative of the people of Gaza. That made Israels ethical position really straightforward. It was on Hamas to get their civilians out of harms way.

The Hezbollah beeper attack was generally ignored.

No, it wasn't. It was applauded. Did you have a problem with the beeper attack? I thought it was genius. A surgical strike at the enemy.

It certainly wasn't applauded. Christ, if any other nation did what Israel had done, there would have been issues at the UN, but again, the global powers appreciated the situation. They didn't want to condone it too much because that is a Pandora's box. So there was a little feedback and we moved away from that as quickly as possible.

You're right. It wasn't applauded by the despicable scum that supports Hamas and Hezbollah. But I think the sane part of humanity applauded it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't think Israels response was morally questionable. I think it was appropriate, considering what they responded to.

The displacement of the Gazans and attempted permanent displacement into Egypt. Flattening large civilian areas. That would be morally questionable.

So they let Israel see to it, no questions asked. There was a time limit though. It wasn't an indefinite blank check. Do you understand nothing about diplomacy?

You mean that we should encourage Israel to keep going until all hostages are recovered? I hope that is what you mean.

I clearly didn't say that. Do you not realize in English that after the period, if there is more text, you need to keep reading?

Hamas is the government of Gaza. When they attacked they acted as the representative of the people of Gaza. That made Israels ethical position really straightforward. It was on Hamas to get their civilians out of harms way.

That is more school yard morals, we have a higher standard... in general.

The Hezbollah beeper attack was generally ignored.

No, it wasn't. It was applauded. Did you have a problem with the beeper attack? I thought it was genius. A surgical strike at the enemy.

It certainly wasn't applauded. Christ, if any other nation did what Israel had done, there would have been issues at the UN, but again, the global powers appreciated the situation. They didn't want to condone it too much because that is a Pandora's box. So there was a little feedback and we moved away from that as quickly as possible.

You're right. It wasn't applauded by the despicable scum that supports Hamas and Hezbollah. But I think the sane part of humanity applauded it.

Please cite the Western leaders that "applauded" it. The Western leaders didn't "applaud" it. They couldn't, they allowed it, but this slippery slope is something they don't want repeated. We are talking about a national intelligence agency intercepting products somewhere along the line of production / shipment, putting explosives in them, and placing back into production / shipment.

 

[TomC]

Please cite the Western leaders that "applauded" it. The Western leaders didn't "applaud" it. They couldn't, they allowed it, but this slippery slope is something they don't want repeated.

Of course they couldn't say it out loud. Not with the bulk of the international community, including westerners, lining up to blame Israel for the results of choices and policies of Islamic terrorists.
But yeah, you can bet a lot of people were quietly applauding. "Dayum Bibi! That's some mighty fine shooting. Y'all decapitated Hezbollah with nearly zero deaths. You probably brought about the collapse of the Assad regime. Now you can take control of the territory that the Syrians used to shoot at you from. Dang!"
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Please cite the Western leaders that "applauded" it. The Western leaders didn't "applaud" it. They couldn't, they allowed it, but this slippery slope is something they don't want repeated.

Of course they couldn't say it out loud.

Which is what I said.

Not with the bulk of the international community, including westerners, lining up to blame Israel for the results of choices and policies of Islamic terrorists.

FFS!

But yeah, you can bet a lot of people were quietly applauding. "Dayum Bibi! That's some mighty fine shooting. Y'all decapitated Hezbollah with nearly zero deaths. You probably brought about the collapse of the Assad regime. Now you can take control of the territory that the Syrians used to shoot at you from. Dang!"

Infiltrating means and production of products to deliver explosives to a target is NOT something we want others doing. Israel against Hezbollah, it was efficient with generally most of the targetted folks being the damage. But in no way would we want Russia or China doing such a thing.

As I noted, Western powers don't want that going around, but they didn't hassle Netanyahu over it either... a sign of support in their favor. Dr. Z has alleged the Western powers showed no support.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I've seen this sort of thing before--you're looking at the actions of the good guys vs the results of those actions. And thus you rate the death of one innocent at the hands of the good guys as far worse than the death of many innocents at the hands of the bad guys

Oh, bullshit. Unjust deaths in war are unjust deaths in war. I left the concepts of "good guy" and "bad guys" behind in grade school, and you should have too. It's called growing up and realizing that life is not like a television program, and wars are not like war movies.

Are you just... hallucinating some conversation in which I voiced support for Hamas? Because that never happened, nor would.

The problem is you are putting rules of engagement on Israel that preclude defending themselves.

No, I'm not. Were it somehow within my power, I would "put rules of engagement" on Israel that preclude religious ethnocide against their citizens.

If you grant Hamas' "facts" you arrive at incorrect conclusions. There was no genocide and any argument that presumes there was is thus irrelevant.

Yet another example where we can see the whole thing was a setup:

Pro-Palestinian activists were planning London march as Oct 7 massacre unfolded

Palestine Solidarity Campaign organiser called Met Police about intended protest the following week as terror attack was ongoing

www.telegraph.co.uk

A protest march against Israel's response to 10/7--that the paperwork was filed for before there was any Israeli response. Amazing how the Palestinians keep having grievances about future events.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

if Hamas kills enough civilians you blame Israel for genocide

That’s a smarmy attempt at rationalizing brutality.
Is Hamas killing and maiming six digit figures of people indiscriminately?
Didn’t think so.
It’s Israel.
If it makes you feel any better I’d be okay describing Hamas’ terror action as attempted genocide. Good thing they lack Israel’s ability to carry it out, eh?
Your kneejerk reaction to criticism of the genocidal jerk in charge of Israel is to come up with turbocharged whataboutisms involving Hamas, implying that they are being deified, or at least not being recognized as the scumbags they are.

You are not rebutting my point one bit, just presenting an emotional "argument". It's horrible so the side with the power must be wrong.

Hamas ensures that in going after them a lot of civilians (but it looks like nowhere near as many as they claim!) died. And you blame Israel for that. There still has been no meaningful answer about what Israel should have done. "Better" is not an answer.

Hamas' intent was genocide. Israel's was not.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Iran is going to continue to fund and resupply them, there will be another attack. The only question is how long before it happens.

So how far must Israel need to go to remove this maybe someday capability? Are you calling for Israel to go to war with Iran?

I consider the status quo better than a direct war between Israel and Iran. But I recognize that so long as Iran keeps funding war there will continue to be war and there will continue to be plenty of dead to distract you from what's going on.

 

[Elixir]

You are not rebutting my point one bit, just presenting an emotional "argument".

BS
“they (Hamas) lack Israel’s ability to carry it (genocide) out” is an observation of fact, Loren. As is the observation that it lies well within Bibi’s capability.
I’d say that your reaction to criticism of the genocidal jerk in charge of Israel is the emotional element here.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No, I'm not. Were it somehow within my power, I would "put rules of engagement" on Israel that preclude religious ethnocide against their citizens.

Is Israel killing muslims who live in Nazareth and Jerusalem?

244 Arabs said killed in 2023 violence, more than double 2022 toll

Abraham Initiatives coexistence organization says this was bloodiest year ever for Arab homicides, blames government for pausing earlier efforts to curb trend

www.timesofisrael.com

And this is supposed to prove something??? It says nothing about who committed the murders! And note that 4.5% were because of sexual orientation. Hint: who over there engages in gay bashing? This article is saying the murder rate went up as a result of less police presence (well, duh, there was a war going on!), not that Jews are the ones committing the murders.

Violence at Jerusalem mosque raises fears of escalation

Israeli police have stormed the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem's Old City, firing stun grenades and beating Palestinian youths who hurled stones and firecrackers in a burst of violence during a sensitive holiday seasons.

www.pbs.org

Really, now, this doesn't pass the laugh test:

People who were detained at the compound and later released said police used batons, chairs, rifles and whatever else they could find to strike Palestinians, including women and children, who responded by hurling stones and setting off firecrackers that they’d brought to evening prayers for fear of possible clashes.

You don't bring stones and firecrackers as defensive weapons.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/22/jerusalem-west-bank-ramadan-violence/

https://www.btselem.org/jerusalem/20230628_israeli_violence_against_palestinians_in_east_jerusalem_during_ramadan_prayers_sabbath_of_light_and_flag_march

BtSelem is not a remotely credible source, consistently portraying as civilian people that were clearly acting with combatants. And Ramadan isn't meaningful to Jews but it is to Muslims. How much of that violence is self defense?

Clashes in Jerusalem as thousands of Israelis parade through Muslim quarter

Fears that Flag Day event will spark more violence, with far-right minister expected to attend and Hamas calling for ‘day of anger’

www.theguardian.com

And that's supposed to be evidence of what?

Patriarch of Jerusalem condemns violence practiced against civilians in East Jerusalem

His Beatitude the Patriarch of Jerusalem Theophilos III, in a statement, condemned the violence practiced against civilians in East Jerusalem, especially in the Holy Sanctuary of Al Aqsa mosque and the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood.

www.oikoumene.org

Extremely biased, yet notably absent is the identity of the civilians. If they were Muslims it would have said so.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think this is just part of his stupidity that nobody has had a reason to persuade him against. He might try but he's not going to be able to actually do much of anything.

 

[Tigers!]

So, you are willing to let the hostages to die, as long as many noncombatants to die as well. I do admire your honesty.

What a damnable strawman!
You are arguing that both hostages and the Gazans who don't matter should keep on dying because Hamas just isn't willing to stop committing war crimes.

No, that is what you are proposing with your policy. Hamas has demonstrated it does not care what happens to Gazan noncombatants. Why would any rational human being think that if Israel prevented food and water from entering Gaza that the remaining hostages would remain alive?

So again I will ask the question. What is your solution to prevent Hamas from rocketing Israel and taking hostages in the future?

Is that point of that non-sequitur to prove you don't read the answers to the question that you pose (I've answered it in this thread in the past or to avoid answering the question I asked?

In the past you have said that the aim is for Hamas to be removed from power. No argument there.
What I have been asking is how would you achieve that? Unless I missed it you have never given any realistic, achievable way(s) to remove Hamas from power. If you have answered it could you be kind enough to quote the post no.?

Really, do you think that TomC's proposal to prevent food and water from entering Gaza that the remaining hostages would remain alive?

Given long enough no hostages would have been returned alive. The only reason the hostages are been returned is the hammering Hamas has been getting from Israel.

 

[laughing dog]

So again I will ask the question. What is your solution to prevent Hamas from rocketing Israel and taking hostages in the future?

Is that point of that non-sequitur to prove you don't read the answers to the question that you pose (I've answered it in this thread in the past or to avoid answering the question I asked?

In the past you have said that the aim is for Hamas to be removed from power. No argument there.
What I have been asking is how would you achieve that? Unless I missed it you have never given any realistic, achievable way(s) to remove Hamas from power. If you have answered it could you be kind enough to quote the post no.?

You have switched the goalposts between the questions. I answered your question in this thread. If you are really interested, you find the post because I don’t wish to spend time dealing with an insincere poster.

 

[Tigers!]

So again I will ask the question. What is your solution to prevent Hamas from rocketing Israel and taking hostages in the future?

Is that point of that non-sequitur to prove you don't read the answers to the question that you pose (I've answered it in this thread in the past or to avoid answering the question I asked?

In the past you have said that the aim is for Hamas to be removed from power. No argument there.
What I have been asking is how would you achieve that? Unless I missed it you have never given any realistic, achievable way(s) to remove Hamas from power. If you have answered it could you be kind enough to quote the post no.?

You have switched the goalposts between the questions. I answered your question in this thread. If you are really interested, you find the post because I don’t wish to spend time dealing with an insincere poster.

You have hidden your answer most carefully.

 

[Arctish]

Let's just skip over the wordplay and get to the heart of the matter.

People have wondered what can be done to bring about a lasting peace. Some have suggested following historical precedent and negotiating terms based on successful peace negotiations like the ones at the end of WWII, the ones that ended the Warring States Period in Japan, the ones that allowed the French, Germans, and Italians to form a united Switzerland, the one that allowed Bangladesh to separate from Pakistan, etc.

IMO that's the pragmatic approach. Not all such attempts are immediately successful, but some have been and the rest are works-in-progress.

Other posters appear to be demanding something that no other treaty or accords have ever done: to absolutely guarantee there will be no more murders, assaults, or similar breaches of the peace by any member of the currently warring parties (or their associates, affiliates, or otherwise related fellows) and refuse to consider taking even small steps towards a more peaceful future unless they can get that guarantee.

IMO, that's making the perfect the enemy of the good. Peace doesn't have to be perfect in order for it to be preferable.

And then there are those who go beyond "the beatings will continue until morale improves" and promote the policy of "the beatings will continue", for whatever reason. It looks to me like vengeance driven hate and taking pleasure in the suffering of others, although some folks might simply be indifferent to that suffering and are just echoing what their friends and family members say out of a sense of solidarity.

IMO their suggestion is immoral, vain, fatuous, and ultimately self-destructive. In the long run, no one benefits when hatred drives policy. It will always come back to bite you, and everyone else, too.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I don't think Israels response was morally questionable. I think it was appropriate, considering what they responded to.

The displacement of the Gazans and attempted permanent displacement into Egypt. Flattening large civilian areas. That would be morally questionable.

What permanent displacement into Egypt? Have you been drinking the antisemitic cool aid again?

So they let Israel see to it, no questions asked. There was a time limit though. It wasn't an indefinite blank check. Do you understand nothing about diplomacy?

You mean that we should encourage Israel to keep going until all hostages are recovered? I hope that is what you mean.

I clearly didn't say that. Do you not realize in English that after the period, if there is more text, you need to keep reading?

I was just holding out hope that you have a functioning moral compas.

Hamas is the government of Gaza. When they attacked they acted as the representative of the people of Gaza. That made Israels ethical position really straightforward. It was on Hamas to get their civilians out of harms way.

That is more school yard morals, we have a higher standard... in general.

Holding people accountable for their actions is a moral act. Letting others walk all over you is not. Jews have just as much right to life and dignity as Arabs

The Hezbollah beeper attack was generally ignored.

No, it wasn't. It was applauded. Did you have a problem with the beeper attack? I thought it was genius. A surgical strike at the enemy.

It certainly wasn't applauded. Christ, if any other nation did what Israel had done, there would have been issues at the UN, but again, the global powers appreciated the situation. They didn't want to condone it too much because that is a Pandora's box. So there was a little feedback and we moved away from that as quickly as possible.

You're right. It wasn't applauded by the despicable scum that supports Hamas and Hezbollah. But I think the sane part of humanity applauded it.

Please cite the Western leaders that "applauded" it. The Western leaders didn't "applaud" it. They couldn't, they allowed it, but this slippery slope is something they don't want repeated. We are talking about a national intelligence agency intercepting products somewhere along the line of production / shipment, putting explosives in them, and placing back into production / shipment.

I don't understand what your problem is with that? Hezboallah is a terrorist organisation with the explicit aim to destroy Israel. They're a similar organisation to Hamas. They are essentially the same organisation.

Just like Hamas they build their military head quarters under hospitals. They keep shooting rockets into Israel, and have for decades

The beeper attack cut off the snakes head. A genius attack that only targeted the most guilty.

I really don't understand who could have a problem with the attack. Even if you are a Hezboallah supporter you should be able to appreciate the surgical precision of the attack. Almost nobody innocent got hurt or killed

 

[thebeave]

60 Minutes had a segment on the pager attack. Click the link to watch on Youtube.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Hamas is the government of Gaza. When they attacked they acted as the representative of the people of Gaza. That made Israels ethical position really straightforward. It was on Hamas to get their civilians out of harms way.

That is more school yard morals, we have a higher standard... in general.

Holding people accountable for their actions is a moral act. Letting others walk all over you is not. Jews have just as much right to life and dignity as Arabs

Today on the Moralistic Glory of the Treaty of Versailles.

The Hezbollah beeper attack was generally ignored.

No, it wasn't. It was applauded. Did you have a problem with the beeper attack? I thought it was genius. A surgical strike at the enemy.

It certainly wasn't applauded. Christ, if any other nation did what Israel had done, there would have been issues at the UN, but again, the global powers appreciated the situation. They didn't want to condone it too much because that is a Pandora's box. So there was a little feedback and we moved away from that as quickly as possible.

You're right. It wasn't applauded by the despicable scum that supports Hamas and Hezbollah. But I think the sane part of humanity applauded it.

Please cite the Western leaders that "applauded" it. The Western leaders didn't "applaud" it. They couldn't, they allowed it, but this slippery slope is something they don't want repeated. We are talking about a national intelligence agency intercepting products somewhere along the line of production / shipment, putting explosives in them, and placing back into production / shipment.

I don't understand what your problem is with that? Hezboallah is a terrorist organisation with the explicit aim to destroy Israel. They're a similar organisation to Hamas. They are essentially the same organisation.

There are a lot of things you don't understand. You have managed to invent, wholesale, a number of my alleged opinions. I would blame that on laziness and not reading things fully. Instead, you read a couple words, then fill in the rest yourself. You actually appear to not even capable of following along your own comments. It must be very frustrating.

Just like Hamas they build their military head quarters under hospitals. They keep shooting rockets into Israel, and have for decades

The beeper attack cut off the snakes head. A genius attack that only targeted the most guilty.

I really don't understand who could have a problem with the attack. Even if you are a Hezboallah supporter you should be able to appreciate the surgical precision of the attack. Almost nobody innocent got hurt or killed

I clearly explained why an attack via those methods would definitely be cause of concern if the method spread. But you didn't bother to read what I wrote.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Hamas is the government of Gaza. When they attacked they acted as the representative of the people of Gaza. That made Israels ethical position really straightforward. It was on Hamas to get their civilians out of harms way.

That is more school yard morals, we have a higher standard... in general.

Holding people accountable for their actions is a moral act. Letting others walk all over you is not. Jews have just as much right to life and dignity as Arabs

Today on the Moralistic Glory of the Treaty of Versailles.

The Hezbollah beeper attack was generally ignored.

No, it wasn't. It was applauded. Did you have a problem with the beeper attack? I thought it was genius. A surgical strike at the enemy.

It certainly wasn't applauded. Christ, if any other nation did what Israel had done, there would have been issues at the UN, but again, the global powers appreciated the situation. They didn't want to condone it too much because that is a Pandora's box. So there was a little feedback and we moved away from that as quickly as possible.

You're right. It wasn't applauded by the despicable scum that supports Hamas and Hezbollah. But I think the sane part of humanity applauded it.

Please cite the Western leaders that "applauded" it. The Western leaders didn't "applaud" it. They couldn't, they allowed it, but this slippery slope is something they don't want repeated. We are talking about a national intelligence agency intercepting products somewhere along the line of production / shipment, putting explosives in them, and placing back into production / shipment.

I don't understand what your problem is with that? Hezboallah is a terrorist organisation with the explicit aim to destroy Israel. They're a similar organisation to Hamas. They are essentially the same organisation.

There are a lot of things you don't understand. You have managed to invent, wholesale, a number of my alleged opinions. I would blame that on laziness and not reading things fully. Instead, you read a couple words, then fill in the rest yourself. You actually appear to not even capable of following along your own comments. It must be very frustrating.

FYI, the news reporting right now has an absolutely bizarre slant against Israel. All context is removed. So I don't blame you for sipping the antisemitic cool aid. The world is marinated in it. You really need to make an effort now to filter out the bullshit. Not that much of an effort. All the information is in the news reporting. But you will need to make an effort yourself to absorb what it being said, and figure out how it all makes sense.

But it's really really dumb that you're trying to accuse me of laziness and not reading things fully. That's your problem. As far as your alleged opinions, when you say a thing that is a pro-palestine propaganda planted piece, then the conclusion of what you mean is clear. Perhaps not to you. But it to anyone who knows the context.

The fact that you're trying to come off as the one who understands more than me is just embarrasing. Just stop.

Just like Hamas they build their military head quarters under hospitals. They keep shooting rockets into Israel, and have for decades

The beeper attack cut off the snakes head. A genius attack that only targeted the most guilty.

I really don't understand who could have a problem with the attack. Even if you are a Hezboallah supporter you should be able to appreciate the surgical precision of the attack. Almost nobody innocent got hurt or killed

I clearly explained why an attack via those methods would definitely be cause of concern if the method spread. But you didn't bother to read what I wrote.

You are correct that I don't remember everything you've said on every issue. You got me there.

Why would those method spread? It was such a one off. Its not repeatable. And even if those methods do spread... why would it be a problem? Killing the correct target while sparing civilians, isn't that exactly the best method? Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation who doesn't give a fuck about right or wrong, or treating anyone with respect. They just want to win. You are aware that it was Hezbollah who kept Assad in power? The beeper attack is the final (nail in the coffin) reason the Assad regime fell. Israel deserve the biggest medal in the world for this, and if you struggle with understanding that, it says a lot about your fucked moral compas, and standing up for what is right. The quote from the German priest who didn't speak up when the Nazis came for various people is apt. How about taking a stand and fighting back against evil?

The best quote on this I have heard is something along the lines of this, "we (the international community) encourage Israel to do our dirty work, and then when they do it we do we condemn them for it."

The world would be a hell of a lot more dangerous without Israel. I'm very grateful they still have some backbone. We in the west seem to have lost ours. I'm also thinking about us not sending troops to Ukraine. The west is right now pathetic in the face of evil, and not willing to fight for what is right. You could at least not whine about Israel, like you are. Please.