Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[DrZoidberg]

Look at the other places they are subverting, death tolls far above Gaza, but no propaganda and no Jews to blame, they hardly make the news.

What death tolls are you in fact referring to? In the Twelve-Day War, Iran killed 32 human beings, against the 1,060 lives taken by Israel in the same two weeks. To put it another way, Iran killed 5 people every two days during the same time period that Israel was killing 7 people every two hours. All war is crime and I am not fond of it no matter who is waging it, but if you're going to accuse Iran of innumerable atrocities while ignoring the bloodbaths routinely engaged in by Israel, it's natural to wonder what the hell you're talking about.

I suggest listening to what Iran is saying. They're sworn to destroy Israel. They're trying to build nuclear weapons. While Israels mission is just trying to survive.

There's a huge difference in threat level. There's also the little detail that Iran does not care about suffering. They don't care about the suffering of their own people. Iranians I know tend to refer to Iran's regime as "psychopathic". Iraelis do not talk about the govornment of Israel as psychopathic. Also... Iran is a huge country. And a rich oil rich country. Obsessively fixated on destroying Israel. You do know that Hamas is the puppet of Iran? The 7/10 attack was a first strike by Iran. And first strikes are way more serious than retaliatory strikes.

So what you're saying is that you admit that Loren is full of shit, and there's no fucking way Iran kills as many people as, let alone "far above", your allies?

And we do not, in fact, see Iran the country making "first strikes" anywhere in the world as far as I know. They monetarily support some regimes that have, but so do you, you're making an impassioned defense of one right now.

What? Hamas attack on Israel 7/10 was a first strike by Iran. If you don't think it was an attack by Iran, then I would accuse you of downplaying the threat to Israel. I wonder why you would do that?

 

[Politesse]

Look at the other places they are subverting, death tolls far above Gaza, but no propaganda and no Jews to blame, they hardly make the news.

What death tolls are you in fact referring to? In the Twelve-Day War, Iran killed 32 human beings, against the 1,060 lives taken by Israel in the same two weeks. To put it another way, Iran killed 5 people every two days during the same time period that Israel was killing 7 people every two hours. All war is crime and I am not fond of it no matter who is waging it, but if you're going to accuse Iran of innumerable atrocities while ignoring the bloodbaths routinely engaged in by Israel, it's natural to wonder what the hell you're talking about.

I suggest listening to what Iran is saying. They're sworn to destroy Israel. They're trying to build nuclear weapons. While Israels mission is just trying to survive.

There's a huge difference in threat level. There's also the little detail that Iran does not care about suffering. They don't care about the suffering of their own people. Iranians I know tend to refer to Iran's regime as "psychopathic". Iraelis do not talk about the govornment of Israel as psychopathic. Also... Iran is a huge country. And a rich oil rich country. Obsessively fixated on destroying Israel. You do know that Hamas is the puppet of Iran? The 7/10 attack was a first strike by Iran. And first strikes are way more serious than retaliatory strikes.

So what you're saying is that you admit that Loren is full of shit, and there's no fucking way Iran kills as many people as, let alone "far above", your allies?

And we do not, in fact, see Iran the country making "first strikes" anywhere in the world as far as I know. They monetarily support some regimes that have, but so do you, you're making an impassioned defense of one right now.

What? Hamas attack on Israel 7/10 was a first strike by Iran. If you don't think it was an attack by Iran, then I would accuse you of downplaying the threat to Israel. I wonder why you would do that?

So by "Iran" you don't mean literally Iran, just... anyone that Iran supports in some way? Do you likewise consider every action by Israel to be "what the United States did"?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You misunderstand how wars are fought and use that to try to make Israel look bad.

How many wars have you fought in? What were your sources that make you believe your perspective is better than others?

You tried to show my 90% civilian number was wrong--but your site was just mindlessly saying that the fact that nobody had done better showed that it was possible to do better.

We don't have to fight in a war to read about them and understand the tactics used.

WTF are you talking about? What site?

I don't recall the URL. You posted it, though.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Since your response ignores the condition of “if at first”, you should try something else, possibly on point.

Every time Israel tries "something else" (a peaceful approach) they end up suffering. But you keep demanding they do what experience shows always produces a bad outcome.

It seems like that is true for Israelis and Palestinians (especially in the West Bank).

Can you actually address the point??

 

[laughing dog]

Since your response ignores the condition of “if at first”, you should try something else, possibly on point.

Every time Israel tries "something else" (a peaceful approach) they end up suffering. But you keep demanding they do what experience shows always produces a bad outcome.

It seems like that is true for Israelis and Palestinians (especially in the West Bank).

Can you actually address the point??

Yes. I did. Which word(s) confused you?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Look at the other places they are subverting, death tolls far above Gaza, but no propaganda and no Jews to blame, they hardly make the news.

What death tolls are you in fact referring to? In the Twelve-Day War, Iran killed 32 human beings, against the 1,060 lives taken by Israel in the same two weeks. To put it another way, Iran killed 5 people every two days during the same time period that Israel was killing 7 people every two hours. All war is crime and I am not fond of it no matter who is waging it, but if you're going to accuse Iran of innumerable atrocities while ignoring the bloodbaths routinely engaged in by Israel, it's natural to wonder what the hell you're talking about.

I suggest listening to what Iran is saying. They're sworn to destroy Israel. They're trying to build nuclear weapons. While Israels mission is just trying to survive.

There's a huge difference in threat level. There's also the little detail that Iran does not care about suffering. They don't care about the suffering of their own people. Iranians I know tend to refer to Iran's regime as "psychopathic". Iraelis do not talk about the govornment of Israel as psychopathic. Also... Iran is a huge country. And a rich oil rich country. Obsessively fixated on destroying Israel. You do know that Hamas is the puppet of Iran? The 7/10 attack was a first strike by Iran. And first strikes are way more serious than retaliatory strikes.

So what you're saying is that you admit that Loren is full of shit, and there's no fucking way Iran kills as many people as, let alone "far above", your allies?

And we do not, in fact, see Iran the country making "first strikes" anywhere in the world as far as I know. They monetarily support some regimes that have, but so do you, you're making an impassioned defense of one right now.

What? Hamas attack on Israel 7/10 was a first strike by Iran. If you don't think it was an attack by Iran, then I would accuse you of downplaying the threat to Israel. I wonder why you would do that?

So by "Iran" you don't mean literally Iran, just... anyone that Iran supports in some way? Do you likewise consider every action by Israel to be "what the United States did"?

I litterally mean Iran. Like Hamas. A puppet regime completely controlled by Iran.

We know now that the 7/10 was supposed to be a coordinated attack by Iran, Hezbollah, Houthis and Hamas. All organisations controlled by Iran. Hamas just attacked prematurely. For some reason.

The military hardware that was supposed to be fired into Israel has already landed in Israel. Except Hezbollah's rockets. Hezbollah was crippled by Israel.

Israel is an independent country. They don't only act on the orders of USA. They are dependent on US support for their survival. But that's not the same thing as being a puppet regime.

If you equate Israels regime with that of Hamas then I will accuse you of anti Jewish race hate. So prevalent in the western left right now.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Along with Australia, Britain, Canada and France, Belgium to recognise Palestinian state.

 

[Politesse]

So by "Iran" you don't mean literally Iran, just... anyone that Iran supports in some way? Do you likewise consider every action by Israel to be "what the United States did"?

I litterally mean Iran. Like Hamas. A puppet regime completely controlled by Iran.

We know now that the 7/10 was supposed to be a coordinated attack by Iran, Hezbollah, Houthis and Hamas. All organisations controlled by Iran. Hamas just attacked prematurely. For some reason.

The military hardware that was supposed to be fired into Israel has already landed in Israel. Except Hezbollah's rockets. Hezbollah was crippled by Israel.

Israel is an independent country. They don't only act on the orders of USA. They are dependent on US support for their survival. But that's not the same thing as being a puppet regime.

If you equate Israels regime with that of Hamas then I will accuse you of anti Jewish race hate. So prevalent in the western left right now.

You're supporting genocidal actions against real human beings because of internet conspiracy theories? Yeah, no way that could end badly...

 

[DrZoidberg]

So by "Iran" you don't mean literally Iran, just... anyone that Iran supports in some way? Do you likewise consider every action by Israel to be "what the United States did"?

I litterally mean Iran. Like Hamas. A puppet regime completely controlled by Iran.

We know now that the 7/10 was supposed to be a coordinated attack by Iran, Hezbollah, Houthis and Hamas. All organisations controlled by Iran. Hamas just attacked prematurely. For some reason.

The military hardware that was supposed to be fired into Israel has already landed in Israel. Except Hezbollah's rockets. Hezbollah was crippled by Israel.

Israel is an independent country. They don't only act on the orders of USA. They are dependent on US support for their survival. But that's not the same thing as being a puppet regime.

If you equate Israels regime with that of Hamas then I will accuse you of anti Jewish race hate. So prevalent in the western left right now.

You're supporting genocidal actions against real human beings because of internet conspiracy theories? Yeah, no way that could end badly...

The conspiracy actually happened. So I'm not sure what you are arguing against?

You're confused. I'm not supporting Hamas. You are.

 

[Politesse]

The conspiracy actually happened. So I'm not sure what you are arguing against?

Well, no, it didn't. I don't suppose you have any evidence for such an absurd claim?

And no, I do not support Hamas. And I care a lot more about Israelis, let alone "Jews" than does someone like yourself, who supports using them as meat shields to fight a proxy war against Iran. Cowards hire someone to fight for them, in someone else's backyard. Do you self-identify as a coward? Do you think your country should be cowardly on your behalf, and throw other people's children in front of bullets for you?

 

[laughing dog]

The conspiracy actually happened. So I'm not sure what you are arguing against?

Well, no, it didn't. I don't suppose you have any evidence for such an absurd claim?

The news reports I read said that Hamas kept the attack plans (including the date) as secret as possible, that Hamas expected support from Hezbollah, the Houthis, and that Iran was taken by surprise by the attack. If those reports ate accurate, it doesn’t sound much like a conspiracy to me.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You misunderstand how wars are fought and use that to try to make Israel look bad.

How many wars have you fought in? What were your sources that make you believe your perspective is better than others?

I find your ignorance disappointing. Wars is one of the most defining features of human civilisation. I'd say most adults have enough of an interest to know the basics of modern warfare. They know enough to know that war movies are not representative of what real war is.

We now have two major wars ongoing. And plenty of minor ones. I suggest picking up some books on the subject. You'll be well catered for. There's many to chose from.

Have you never wondered why Europe was so completey devastated in WW2?

Nice dodge to that actual questions. Quite imaginative. I agree, everyone knows wars are bad. Thank you for the enlightenment.

Now try answering the questions.

Knowing war is bad is not the same as understanding what is going on. You are basically asking for a sound bite answer to a complex thing.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The conspiracy actually happened. So I'm not sure what you are arguing against?

Well, no, it didn't. I don't suppose you have any evidence for such an absurd claim?

The news reports I read said that Hamas kept the attack plans (including the date) as secret as possible, that Hamas expected support from Hezbollah, the Houthis, and that Iran was taken by surprise by the attack. If those reports ate accurate, it doesn’t sound much like a conspiracy to me.

Yes, Iran was surprised by the timing. Hamas suspected support. But because they fucked up the timing it didn't come 7/10. Those rockets came later. But they did come.

Obviously Iran hasn't confirmed this. Why would they?

The evidence is that all these organisations have tried to attack Israel after 7/10

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The source is any book on modern warfare.

You don't need to have taken part in war to know that.

This should be common knowledge imho

"book on", "common knowledge". Not exactly compatible things.

But there is a far more fundamental issue. So long as people have faith that there must be a good answer they will do very poorly in understanding things which show there can't be a good answer.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So what you're saying is that you admit that Loren is full of shit, and there's no fucking way Iran kills as many people as, let alone "far above", your allies?

And we do not, in fact, see Iran the country making "first strikes" anywhere in the world as far as I know. They monetarily support some regimes that have, but so do you, you're making an impassioned defense of one right now.

When they come along and ferment rebels that's a first strike to me. Just because it isn't by direct means doesn't mean it isn't a strike.

And if you count all the deaths from the trouble they have stirred up it's most likely in the millions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What? Hamas attack on Israel 7/10 was a first strike by Iran. If you don't think it was an attack by Iran, then I would accuse you of downplaying the threat to Israel. I wonder why you would do that?

So by "Iran" you don't mean literally Iran, just... anyone that Iran supports in some way? Do you likewise consider every action by Israel to be "what the United States did"?

Iran provided the funding, Iran provided the weapons. These were provided with the provision that Hamas attack Israel.

That's not "supports in some way", that's direct involvement.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Since your response ignores the condition of “if at first”, you should try something else, possibly on point.

Every time Israel tries "something else" (a peaceful approach) they end up suffering. But you keep demanding they do what experience shows always produces a bad outcome.

It seems like that is true for Israelis and Palestinians (especially in the West Bank).

Can you actually address the point??

Yes. I did. Which word(s) confused you?

Saying you addressed it doesn't mean you did.

Observation: Every time Israel tries to do good they end up hurt. When they are harsh, they are less hurt. What outcome do you expect?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So by "Iran" you don't mean literally Iran, just... anyone that Iran supports in some way? Do you likewise consider every action by Israel to be "what the United States did"?

I litterally mean Iran. Like Hamas. A puppet regime completely controlled by Iran.

We know now that the 7/10 was supposed to be a coordinated attack by Iran, Hezbollah, Houthis and Hamas. All organisations controlled by Iran. Hamas just attacked prematurely. For some reason.

The military hardware that was supposed to be fired into Israel has already landed in Israel. Except Hezbollah's rockets. Hezbollah was crippled by Israel.

Israel is an independent country. They don't only act on the orders of USA. They are dependent on US support for their survival. But that's not the same thing as being a puppet regime.

If you equate Israels regime with that of Hamas then I will accuse you of anti Jewish race hate. So prevalent in the western left right now.

You're supporting genocidal actions against real human beings because of internet conspiracy theories? Yeah, no way that could end badly...

You're being as bad as the MAGAs automatically not believing anything from the mainstream media.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And no, I do not support Hamas. And I care a lot more about Israelis, let alone "Jews" than does someone like yourself, who supports using them as meat shields to fight a proxy war against Iran. Cowards hire someone to fight for them, in someone else's backyard. Do you self-identify as a coward? Do you think your country should be cowardly on your behalf, and throw other people's children in front of bullets for you?

You say you don't support Hamas but you do exactly what Hamas wants you to do.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The conspiracy actually happened. So I'm not sure what you are arguing against?

Well, no, it didn't. I don't suppose you have any evidence for such an absurd claim?

The news reports I read said that Hamas kept the attack plans (including the date) as secret as possible, that Hamas expected support from Hezbollah, the Houthis, and that Iran was taken by surprise by the attack. If those reports ate accurate, it doesn’t sound much like a conspiracy to me.

The control Iran has is loose. Hamas does in general what Iran wants but Iran doesn't have day to day control.

And just because they said it was a surprise doesn't make it so.