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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

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I don't support the starving of children. But you know that
If support Israel's policies then you support exactly that.
Starving kids are the results of Gazans policies!
Pretending that it's due to Israelis defending themselves against Gazans is flat out "Supporting Hamas."
Tom
Blockading food and medicine is not defending oneself from attack. Hamas cannot hoard what is not there.

Oh, and by the way, israeli military officials say there is no proof that Hamas systematically stole aid (No Proof Hamas Routinely Stole U.N. Aid, Israeli Military Officials Say

Its because, (according to Israel, impossible to externally verify) Hamas steals the aid and uses it to extort loyalty from Gazans.

Israel is instead providing the aid, making sure Hamas can't abuse it. Yes, Hamas is making it as hard as possible for Israel to help Gazans. Because that's the kind of people Hamas is.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world/middleeast/hamas-un-aid-theft.html
But the Israeli military never found proof that the Palestinian militant group had systematically stolen aid from the United Nations, the biggest supplier of emergency assistance to Gaza for most of the war, according to two senior Israeli military officials and two other Israelis involved in the matter.

In fact, the Israeli military officials said, the U.N. aid delivery system, which Israel derided and undermined, was largely effective in providing food to Gaza’s desperate and hungry population.

I wonder if those Israeli military officials are "supporting Hamas" or antisemites?
i

Israel has the same left/right divide as in the west. The left live in a fantasy land and are unwilling to accept reality and do what is necessary to defend themselves. Luckily they're in the minority.
 
I don't support the starving of children. But you know that
If support Israel's policies then you support exactly that.
Starving kids are the results of Gazans policies!
Pretending that it's due to Israelis defending themselves against Gazans is flat out "Supporting Hamas."
Tom
Blockading food and medicine is not defending oneself from attack. Hamas cannot hoard what is not there.

Oh, and by the way, israeli military officials say there is no proof that Hamas systematically stole aid (No Proof Hamas Routinely Stole U.N. Aid, Israeli Military Officials Say

Its because, (according to Israel, impossible to externally verify) Hamas steals the aid and uses it to extort loyalty from Gazans.
The report I cited quotes Israeli military officers that dispute your claims.
 
Hamas is so desperate to be able to control the UN aid into Gaza that they're now starving remaining hostages as blackmail.

If they really cared about the Palestinian people they would let the US and Israeli aid to just get on with delivering aid unimpeded.


These are the guys so many of you support

Enjoy your shame for being on the wrong side of history

Nobody here supports Hamas. Stop lying.

You, otoh, support starving children.

If there's a situation where there's only one credible force to stop Hamas and you go out of your way to twist facts around to prevent that force from doing just that, then you are supporting Hamas.

The idea that there's any third way forward is a complete fantasy. Hamas is that kind of opponent. They have on purpose created a situation where the only way to get to them is to wade through the blood of innocent Palestinian civilians, then the top priority should be to get rid of Hamas. Israel is doing just that.
. That involves malnourishing the Gazan population which includes children.

That's on Hamas. If Hamas would let Israel distribute aid unimpeded there wouldn't be a problem.

Also, Gaza doesn't have a starvation problem where Israel has full control. Because there Hamas can't disrupt it.

Also... it will help if UN allows the huge amounts of UN aid, just sitting in parking lots, to be distributed by Israel. They refuse. They'd rather the aid got plundered by Hamas and used to buy loyalty by Gazans. That's pretty fucked.


DrZoidberg said:
I don't support the starving of children. But you know that
But we cannot becausr you defend the very policy that does lead to starvation (ser above).

You mean Hamas' policy where they attack IDF soldiers at aid stations in order to disrupt aid distribution and get Gazan civilians killed? Is that the policy you have a problem with? Or are you going to blame those dastardly coniving Jews again?
 
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I don't support the starving of children. But you know that
If support Israel's policies then you support exactly that.
Starving kids are the results of Gazans policies!
Pretending that it's due to Israelis defending themselves against Gazans is flat out "Supporting Hamas."
Tom
Blockading food and medicine is not defending oneself from attack. Hamas cannot hoard what is not there.

Oh, and by the way, israeli military officials say there is no proof that Hamas systematically stole aid (No Proof Hamas Routinely Stole U.N. Aid, Israeli Military Officials Say

Its because, (according to Israel, impossible to externally verify) Hamas steals the aid and uses it to extort loyalty from Gazans.
The report I cited quotes Israeli military officers that dispute your claims.

The article is paywalled
 
Laughing Dog, I think one piece of information is missing from your context. The UN does not think Hamas is a terror organisation. Israel does (and so does the rest of the civilised world). UN has a policy of cooperating with local authorities in order to distribute aid. Any aid the UN distributes in Gaza will be distributed via Hamas' polictical wing. UN does not think this is a problem. Israel does not distinguish between Hamas' political wing and it's military wing. So Israel does think it's a problem. Both Israel and Hamas are guilty of using loaded words to twist the narrative to their benefit.

Add to that, the aid that just gets straight up plundered. A lot of it is plundered. We can speculate in which hands that aid ends up. The truth is that it can't get any better than speculation. But there's no Palestinian grass roots movement for peace with Israel in Gaza. So whoever steals that aid, it's not going to be a a friend of Israel.

Israel has every reason to shut down all other aid than the aid they distribute themselves. In order to remove Hamas' political stranglehold of the Gazan people. They're doing the right thing. And Israel has all the aid they need to feed all Gazans. That's not the problem. They even airlift out seriously sick Palestinians so they can get treatment in Italy. Among others the chronically ill child with cerebral palsy, the western press has been using as a poster boy for starvation in Gaza. He's been chronically malnourished since birth, due to his condition. His father was in the Hamas govornment, and killed in action as a fighter. But that's somehow left out of western press. Instead they pretended he was a victim of starvation. That's just one of many examples how the western press has been poisoned by Hamas propaganda.
 
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Hamas are Gazans, but Gazans are not necessarily members of Hamas.
Gazan leadership has been Hamas for almost twenty years.
What makes you think that the other Gazans have a problem with their leadership?
The fact Hamas refuses to have an election.
Why do you believe that?

Your claim is that Gazan leadership refused to have an election. I see no reason to believe that.
Tom
Hamas has boycotted every election since 2007. That’s why.
Which elections in Gaza has Hamas boycotted since 2007?
 
Stop talking shit
In other words "I have no answer for your intelligent point."
Too bad Dr Z doesn’t take his own advice.

Enjoy your racism


Heritage Foundation. About as trustworthy as Hamas and Bibbi.


The stuff he's saying is obviously true and irrefutable. I posted it because I think he explains it well

Uh huh
 
Hamas is so desperate to be able to control the UN aid into Gaza that they're now starving remaining hostages as blackmail.

If they really cared about the Palestinian people they would let the US and Israeli aid to just get on with delivering aid unimpeded.


These are the guys so many of you support

Enjoy your shame for being on the wrong side of history

Nobody here supports Hamas. Stop lying.

You, otoh, support starving children.

If there's a situation where there's only one credible force to stop Hamas and you go out of your way to twist facts around to prevent that force from doing just that, then you are supporting Hamas.

The idea that there's any third way forward is a complete fantasy. Hamas is that kind of opponent. They have on purpose created a situation where the only way to get to them is to wade through the blood of innocent Palestinian civilians, then the top priority should be to get rid of Hamas. Israel is doing just that.
. That involves malnourishing the Gazan population which includes children.

That's on Hamas. If Hamas would let Israel distribute aid unimpeded there wouldn't be a problem.
During the blockade by Israel (something you defended), there was no aid to distribute. That was on Israel.

The resulting malnutrition is a problem.

I realize you only accept Israel’s reporting of events, but Israel announced its blockade, so your failure to recognize it is “interesting”.
 
I don't support the starving of children. But you know that
If support Israel's policies then you support exactly that.
Starving kids are the results of Gazans policies!
Pretending that it's due to Israelis defending themselves against Gazans is flat out "Supporting Hamas."
Tom
Blockading food and medicine is not defending oneself from attack. Hamas cannot hoard what is not there.

Oh, and by the way, israeli military officials say there is no proof that Hamas systematically stole aid (No Proof Hamas Routinely Stole U.N. Aid, Israeli Military Officials Say

Its because, (according to Israel, impossible to externally verify) Hamas steals the aid and uses it to extort loyalty from Gazans.
The report I cited quotes Israeli military officers that dispute your claims.

The article is paywalled
Not to me. And i don’t subscribe.
Perhaps a more skilled participant can provide an alternative link, because I don’t know how.
 
Here is another report
USAID analysis found no evidence of massive Hamas theft of Gaza aid
An internal U.S. government analysis found no evidence of systematic theft by the Palestinian militant group Hamas of U.S.-funded humanitarian supplies, challenging the main rationale that Israel and the U.S. give for backing a new armed private aid operation.
The analysis, which has not been previously reported, was conducted by a bureau within the U.S. Agency for International Development and completed in late June. It examined 156 incidents of theft or loss of U.S.-funded supplies reported by U.S. aid partner organizations between October 2023 and this May.

So, two different sources dispute the gov't of Israel's claim that Hamas routinely steals aid. Of course, the sources might be mistaken. And, it is not as if the gov't of Israel is a neutral reporter.

I think these reports provide some basis for skepticism about the claims of UN aid theft.
 
Here is another report
USAID analysis found no evidence of massive Hamas theft of Gaza aid
An internal U.S. government analysis found no evidence of systematic theft by the Palestinian militant group Hamas of U.S.-funded humanitarian supplies, challenging the main rationale that Israel and the U.S. give for backing a new armed private aid operation.
The analysis, which has not been previously reported, was conducted by a bureau within the U.S. Agency for International Development and completed in late June. It examined 156 incidents of theft or loss of U.S.-funded supplies reported by U.S. aid partner organizations between October 2023 and this May.
So, two different sources dispute the gov't of Israel's claim that Hamas routinely steals aid. Of course, the sources might be mistaken. And, it is not as if the gov't of Israel is a neutral reporter.

I think these reports provide some basis for skepticism about the claims of UN aid theft.
But there is theft. The trouble we have is Gaza is ungoverned at the moment. So the policing is by gangs, some linked to Hamas, some probably not, but not exactly ambivalent.

The Israeli military is obviously going to be nervous about doling out supplies as we know Hamas will take advantage of certain situations. Which does shift to the other problem... Hamas still exists despite everything the IDF has thrown at them. The Gazans are reacting radically to supply deliveries as they become more and more desperate. This operation is closing in on two years. So even in the best of circumstances, relief handout is going to be harder than average and Gazans / Israeli troops / UN staff are in danger.
 
@DrZoidberg today I reported six or seven of your posts for slander, insults and rules violations.

Lol. I'm sorry the truth hurts your feelings. If you don't like being called out for the horrible things you are saying, perhaps try not saying them?

I'm not going to stop calling out the antisemitism and racism im this thread. I think the world needs it more than ever.

I find it extremely distutbing how quickly the world turned on Jews, the moment they again needed the world's support.

If any of my posts get removed... that'd be another sad statistic in this propaganda war.

I'm not going to stop . If any mods find any of my posts unwelcome. Please save as all the trouble and just ban me.
 
I'm not going to stop calling out the antisemitism and racism im this thread.
It would be nice if you could point it out, before calling it out. Because I am not seeing it.

Nobody here has posted anything antisemitic or racist; Mere opposition to Bibi, or his policies, is neither.
 
I'm not going to stop calling out the antisemitism and racism im this thread.
It would be nice if you could point it out, before calling it out. Because I am not seeing it.

Nobody here has posted anything antisemitic or racist; Mere opposition to Bibi, or his policies, is neither.

Extreme double standards against Jews as well as only trusting absurd and obvious anti-Israeli propaganda is another tell tale sign. You're in good company. Leftist media in general (which today is most of the mainstream media) are fully leading with the pro-Hamas propaganda line. No doubt because it's a juicier story. It's a simpler and more emotionally impactful narrative. Sleepy people don't like nuance to read in the morning before the coffee has kicked in. It's not that they're lying. But you need to pay attention to the actual text in the articles. Not just which value laden words they lead with.

The PLO figured out how to manipulate western press, by maximising Palestinian civilian suffering, and Hamas are just following that tradition. Yassir Arafat didn't live in Gaza. He lived on the French riviera in a life of luxury. Paid for by foreign aid to Gaza. The leadership of Hamas live in Qatar, in lives of oppulence and luxury. Paid for by foreign aid and Iran. The people you think you are supporting are parasites living off the manufactured suffering of the Palestinian people. And Israel is the only viable option right now to stop them. Yet you are criticising them for doing what needs to be done. How is that not antisemitism?
 
@DrZoidberg today I reported six or seven of your posts for slander, insults and rules violations.

Lol. I'm sorry the truth hurts your feelings. If you don't like being called out for the horrible things you are saying, perhaps try not saying them?

I'm not going to stop calling out the antisemitism and racism im this thread. I think the world needs it more than ever.

I find it extremely distutbing how quickly the world turned on Jews, the moment they again needed the world's support.

If any of my posts get removed... that'd be another sad statistic in this propaganda war.

I'm not going to stop . If any mods find any of my posts unwelcome. Please save as all the trouble and just ban me.
Dr Zoidberg, you conflate "Jewish" and "Israeli".

Worse, you conflate "Jewish" and "the Israeli government".

There are Jewish people where I live who are horrified at the actions of the Israeli government and there are Israelis, Jewish and otherwise, within Israel who feel similarly about the actions of their government.

I defy you to cite any instance of antisemitic rhetoric here, other than disapproval of government actions which you have redirected to Jews in your own mind.

We have had a lot of reportage of people at aid stations gunned down by members of the IDF. How do you justify that?

The Israeli government is doing a terrible thing to innocent civilians in support of their territorial ambitions. Not just direct deaths and physical harms (wounds and starvation) but destruction of homes and livelihoods. You seem to be advocating that the world not intervene because of our collective guilt over another terrible thing which happened in the past.

These things don't cancel each other out, it's just another 62,700 people dead in support of another predator's territorial rapacity.
 
I'm not going to stop calling out the antisemitism and racism im this thread.
It would be nice if you could point it out, before calling it out. Because I am not seeing it.

Nobody here has posted anything antisemitic or racist; Mere opposition to Bibi, or his policies, is neither.

Extreme double standards against Jews as well as only trusting absurd and obvious anti-Israeli propaganda is another tell tale sign.
OK; So quote someone here displaying that "sign".
You're in good company.
I am not in any company. I'm just me, expressing my opinions, while you baselessly insult me.
Leftist media in general (which today is most of the mainstream media) are fully leading with the pro-Hamas propaganda line.
I don't care. I am not responsible for media, leftist or otherwise. What they do does not justify you insulting me.
No doubt because it's a juicier story. It's a simpler and more emotionally impactful narrative. Sleepy people don't like nuance to read in the morning before the coffee has kicked in. It's not that they're lying. But you need to pay attention to the actual text in the articles. Not just which value laden words they lead with.
You need to pay attention to what I say. And to what I asked of you. Do you, or do you not, have an example of "antisemitism and racism im [sic] this thread"?
The PLO figured out how to manipulate western press, by maximising Palestinian civilian suffering, and Hamas are just following that tradition.
Probably. Not my fault.
Yassir Arafat didn't live in Gaza.
So? What have I even said in this thread about Arafat, or his choice of dwelling place?
He lived on the French riviera in a life of luxury. Paid for by foreign aid to Gaza.
I have no reason to doubt it.
The leadership of Hamas live in Qatar, in lives of oppulence and luxury.
If you say so.
Paid for by foreign aid and Iran.
OK.
The people you think you are supporting
...wait, what ??

Do you have any idea who I am supporting? Or what I think? Because it seems not.
are parasites living off the manufactured suffering of the Palestinian people. And Israel is the only viable option right now to stop them.
Perhaps. But Bibi isn't Israel, and 'bombing people into not hating you' is never a viable option.
Yet you are criticising them for doing what needs to be done.
In your opinion. But you have not demonstrated that it needs to be done; You are just assuming it to be true, and hiding behind shreiks of "antisemite!" and "racist!", when asked to support your assumption.
How is that not antisemitism?
How the FUCK is it antisemitism? Criticising a violent person for falsely believing that violence will solve their problems, and blaming them for the suffering that directly results, is a completely secular stance. And one I have consistently adhered to in this thread.

Your selective reading, conflation of all opinions that oppose you as representative of a monolithic opponent, whose parts you consider completely interchangeable, and your utterly absurd declaration that any failure to agree with your every utterence is "antisemitism" and "racism", makes it physically repellant to me to see your posts appear in this thread.

But I don't accuse you of antisemitism, and I would thank you to avoid making such a vile slur against me, too. Or to at least supply a shred of evidence to support your poisonous accusation when repeating it.
 
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