Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Arctish]

Ra’am’s Abbas says Palestinian state ‘a reality,’ drawing outrage from Zionist parties

MK Mansour Abbas, head of the Ra’am (United Arab List) party, called on Israel to recognize an “independent Palestinian state” during a speech to party delegates at their convention in Tayibe on Saturday, declaring that it was already “a reality, which most of the world recognizes, with the exception of the United States and Israel.”

“We want them to recognize it, and we’ll work to achieve peace, rapprochement and an end to the occupation and conflict,” Abbas declared, calling Arab-Israelis “a bridge for achieving peace.”

Ra’am MK Walid Taha also spoke at the convention, telling delegates that “the difference between Ra’am and the other [Arab] parties is that we in Ra’am are not satisfied with making demands — we also act politically to implement solutions.”

“Ra’am has chosen to suffer the fire of partnership in a coalition in order to put out the flames of injustice and discrimination that burn our people,” he said. “We extend a hand to the Jewish community to achieve just civic integration for all citizens of the state, without exception.”

Other speakers also alluded to Abbas’s effort to shed the party’s Islamist connections, with Yahya Dahamsheh, the political director of Ra’am, saying the party was “the voice of the conservative Arab community in all its forms and religious sects, including our Christian and Druze brothers.”

 

[Arctish]

Reform synagogue vandalized in central Israel, in second such incident in 10 days

The attack on Darchei Noam, said Mayor Itzik Rochberger, “is a serious act of vandalism, and it will not be tolerated here.”
Rochberger said that “Ramat Hasharon is a city of freedom, tolerance, pluralism, and coexistence between secular and religious people.

“We will not allow extremist elements to damage property, instill fear, and sabotage the fabric of our shared life,” the mayor added in a statement carried by local news outlet Sharon Online.

 

[steve_bank]

It is a day late and a dollar short. Too late to do Pa;intestines any good.

The Brits have formerly labeled actions by Jewish settlers in the West Bank ethnic cleansing and labeled the colonists terrorists.

UK accuses Israeli ‘terrorists’ of ethnic cleansing in West Bank with government backing

Ed Miliband announces sanctions on trade with settlers as PM says in the Guardian it is time to act

www.theguardian.com

UK accuses Israeli ‘terrorists’ of ethnic cleansing in West Bank with government backing

In the Commons, the foreign secretary said the government would now take the official position that Israel’s occupation of the West Bank was unlawful in its entirety, as he announced sweeping sanctions on trade with Israeli settlements.

As U.K., 11 other nations say they'll sanction Israeli settlements, U.S. envoy warns of repercussions

Britain and 11 other U.S. allies say they'll sanction trade with Israeli settlements in the West Bank, citing an "unprecedented level of settler violence."

www.cbsnews.com

As U.K., 11 other nations say they'll sanction Israeli settlements, U.S. envoy warns of repercussions
Too late to do much good for the Palestinians.

Huckabee warns UK of US backlash over Israeli settlement product ban

US Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee has warned that British trade measures against products from Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank could backfire and harm economic ties between the tw…

www.middleeastmonitor.com

US Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee has warned that British trade measures against products from Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank could backfire and harm economic ties between the two countries.

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Huckabee said the British measures were likely to have “repercussions”, which he described as “very negative”, and argued that they would not achieve London’s intended goal.

The US ambassador said several US states, including Florida, have laws that could restrict trade with entities that take similar measures against Israel.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israel occupied the West Bank during the Six Day War, which saw three Arab nations try to invade Israel. Israel gave them a big spanking and took territory in order to ensure their right to exist. So why not hold Syria, Jordan, and Egypt equally responsible for the problems in the West Bank since they were the ones who invaded Israel, one of the consequences being the occupation of the West Bank?

Are you arguing that the slow and deliberate ethnic cleansing is the direct and only result forced upon Israel from the 1967 war started by Arabs? If so, I must say that breathtakingly idiotic.

You first need to prove ethnic cleansing before declaring it to exist.

Logically, I don’t.

Ethnic cleansing is removing a particular group from an area. The expansion of official settlements and the unofficial expansion of settlements by settler violence under IDF protection are sufficient evidence to me.

No. Removing a group because they are some particular ethnicity is ethnic cleansing. Same problem as always, you are assuming a disparate outcome is proof, you are not considering that there can be other reasons. Such as being a member of a terrorist organization.

Just admit you'd rather see Jews massacred by Muslim theocrats than hold those brutal theocrats responsible for their actions.

My maternal great grandparents who were Jews were killed by the nazis in Poland. I have Jewish grade school classmates living in Israel. Stop projecting your irrational hatred onto others.

I must admit that my assumption of your capability if a coherent connection between Hamas and the current situation in the West Bank was sadly misplaced.

Well, stop proposing solutions that amount to genocide of the Jews.

Even if I were proposing such solutions (which I deny), it doesn’t matter that not logically follow that I’d rather see Jews massacred than holding murderous theocrats accountable. So your suggestion is useless.

Your "solution" is to accept Hamas claims as truth and thus give Hamas what it wants. And what Hamas wants is genocide. Putting a layer of deniability in it doesn't change the situation.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ethnic cleansing in the West Bank was documented by a UN report. Supported by video and reporting from the West Bank.

I wouldn't believe the UN if they told me it was raining.

When Israel prevailed in the first war Arabs outside the self declared boundary were not permuted to return and lost their land without compensation. Jews got primer farm and industrial land for free.

Those who would not agree to lay down arms were not allowed to return.

I don;t think there has been any agreement on borders, so wherever Israel says is the border of Israel is the border of Israel.

The one time there was something close to an agreement Arafat walked without responding. It's always been about genocide.

If Palestinians had a state recognized internationally, they would have standing to sue Israel for damages.

If Palestinians had a state they would more obviously be the aggressor when they attacked Israel.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm not sure if the Palestinians will ever have their own state. At best, October 7 pushed this possibility out at least 25 years. At the end of the day, Israeli right wingers don't want it because it would stop them from fulfilling biblical prophecy. Palestinian wackos (Hamas) don't want it because they won't give up "right of return". There will never be a Palestinian state until there is a long period of peace; and there are governments in charge of both Israel and Gaza and the West Bank who want peace. The odds of this are very very low.

The government of Gaza is pretty much irrelevant. There will not be peace so long as Iran pours billions into terror.

Terror movements always have outside funding. Always. No terror movement with outside funding has been defeated. No terror movement that lost it's funding has survived. It is possible for the outside funding to be via exports (FARC in Columbia, actually a fight over the money from the drug trade), but that is not the common pattern.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Look at a regional map and look up the dimensions of the Gaza Strip.

Then look at the tonnage of high explosives dropped on that small area.

Compare to the HE tonnage dropped on Europe by the Brits and Americans on Europe in WWII.

For Israel it is shooing fish in a barrel.

And killed less than 3% of the population. That's an awful lot of carefully not shooting the fish in the barrel.

 

[laughing dog]

Israel occupied the West Bank during the Six Day War, which saw three Arab nations try to invade Israel. Israel gave them a big spanking and took territory in order to ensure their right to exist. So why not hold Syria, Jordan, and Egypt equally responsible for the problems in the West Bank since they were the ones who invaded Israel, one of the consequences being the occupation of the West Bank?

Are you arguing that the slow and deliberate ethnic cleansing is the direct and only result forced upon Israel from the 1967 war started by Arabs? If so, I must say that breathtakingly idiotic.

You first need to prove ethnic cleansing before declaring it to exist.

Logically, I don’t.

Ethnic cleansing is removing a particular group from an area. The expansion of official settlements and the unofficial expansion of settlements by settler violence under IDF protection are sufficient evidence to me.

No. Removing a group because they are some particular ethnicity is ethnic cleansing. Same problem as always, you are assuming a disparate outcome is proof, you are not considering that there can be other reasons. Such as being a member of a terrorist organization.

The inclusion of the settlements should make it obvious that this is about the West Bank. Settlers are attacking Palestinians they are t because they are Palestinian not because they are terrorists. . It is slow ethnic cleansing, tacitly endorsed by the current Israeli gov't through inaction against the settlers (and sometimes outright protection of the thugs).

Just admit you'd rather see Jews massacred by Muslim theocrats than hold those brutal theocrats responsible for their actions.

My maternal great grandparents who were Jews were killed by the nazis in Poland. I have Jewish grade school classmates living in Israel. Stop projecting your irrational hatred onto others.

I must admit that my assumption of your capability if a coherent connection between Hamas and the current situation in the West Bank was sadly misplaced.

Well, stop proposing solutions that amount to genocide of the Jews.

Even if I were proposing such solutions (which I deny), it doesn’t matter that not logically follow that I’d rather see Jews massacred than holding murderous theocrats accountable. So your suggestion is useless.

Your "solution" is to accept Hamas claims as truth and thus give Hamas what it wants. And what Hamas wants is genocide. Putting a layer of deniability in it doesn't change the situation.

Just stop with your straw men and vile slander. Your opinions reflect your poorly reasoned projections, not the actual content of my posts.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Is there any evidence of missile launching platforms on the top of a hospital?

They put them as close as they can to protected things. I do recall Israel taking fire from hospitals on multiple occasions but that was all small arms. But we rarely see rocket launch sites.

I have seen reports of rockets being fired from the vicinity of hospitals and a report of one falling short of its target and hitting a hospital parking lot, but the reports that Hamas built missile launching pads on top of hospitals and the IDF allowed it, or at the very least failed to notice it, seems ludicrous.

You're mixing it up--the rocket/hospital incident was launching from the parking lot. Rocket blew up, Hamas screamed about Israel bombing the hospital and killing 500. Once we saw it by daylight it was obviously a lot of low grade boom--thus, a rocket. (Although communications intercepts say the rocket was Islamic Jihad, not Hamas.) A simple test that can be applied to many cases: locate the center of the damage. How much damage is done at that spot? Israel: that spot will generally be destroyed. Hamas: soft targets at that spot will be destroyed, hard stuff will still be there. Can't find a spot where hard stuff was destroyed, figure it's probably not Israel.

And you're making a mistake about what the launch pads entail. They aren't big things like NASA builds. These are portable things. They can be basically anywhere flat enough. The biggest ones will have a launch rail sticking up many feet but that doesn't need to be extended until just before launch. Things are rolled out just before use, they're not just sitting there to take note of.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Before the war imports were s3verly restricted. Anything potentially of use to Hamas was canned In one case concrete. Sea and land blockade.

Fish in a barrel.

AI Overview
Yes, there is a sea embargo on the Gaza Strip. Israel has enforced a strict naval blockade on the territory for nearly two decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

During te war hereinafter aide blocked because some of it might go to Hamas.

Look at what Geneva says.

Any of it diverted, Israel is permitted to blockade it. The sieging power has basically total say on how it's distributed.

 

[ZiprHead]

Trump has renewed selling/giving Israel 2,000 lb bombs. Lethal radius of 400 yards. Four football fields. Severe blast injury zone that can extend up to 800 meters (half a mile).

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The gov't of Israel imprisons Palestinians without charges (which is effective kidnapping).

The "administrative detention" is based on a law that was left over from the British Mandate. The detention still needs to be authorized by a judge and is reviewed by a judge every six months.

And those held in administrative detention are affiliated with terrorist groups and often have previously been convicted of terrorism charges. So it's not at all akin to Hamas and allied groups grabbing random civilians from a music festival and from their homes, including small children.

Israelis brace to learn the fate of Hamas' youngest hostage, taken captive as a baby

Holding people against their will without charges on suspicion of terrorism and sometimes torturing them is “akin” to kidnapping.

Prisoners of war almost never get trials. Being captured in battle is enough.

Besides, Hamas identifies the terrorists anyway. The ones they demand the release of are terrorists.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The gov't of Israel imprisons Palestinians without charges (which is effective kidnapping).

The "administrative detention" is based on a law that was left over from the British Mandate. The detention still needs to be authorized by a judge and is reviewed by a judge every six months.

And those held in administrative detention are affiliated with terrorist groups and often have previously been convicted of terrorism charges. So it's not at all akin to Hamas and allied groups grabbing random civilians from a music festival and from their homes, including small children.

Israelis brace to learn the fate of Hamas' youngest hostage, taken captive as a baby

Holding people against their will without charges on suspicion of terrorism and sometimes torturing them is “akin” to kidnapping.

Prisoners of war almost never get trials. Being captured in battle is enough.

Besides, Hamas identifies the terrorists anyway. The ones they demand the release of are terrorists.

So why doesn't Israel release the others instead, because they aren't terrorists... as per your statement.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israel has been killing Palestinian kids for years. They are holding a bunch of people hostage (i.e. without charge in Israeli prisons). I'm sure there are plenty of Palestinians who consider shooting up Israel's power grid and water distribution network a peaceful response and wouldn't give a whit about what their friends and relatives thought about it either.

Would you buy what you're selling, Tom?

The key aspect of "hostage" is a threat to them if something happens. Israel isn't killing prisoners because Hamas attacks, nor is Israel putting them in a position to be hit by Hamas attacks, thus they are not hostages.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The average Palestinian in Gaza who just wanted to have a life were at the mercy of both Hamas and Israel.

I believe before the Intafada Palestinians from Gaza crossed into Israel for work and business. Israel was a market for Gazian goods.

AI Overview +6
An intifada is an Arabic word that means "uprising" or "shaking off". It is most widely used to describe two major periods of Palestinian protests, civil disobedience, and armed conflict against Israeli military rule in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Yup, one of the big driving forces of the intifada. It's much easier to force people in abject poverty to be cannon fodder than it is when there are other viable life paths. Thus the leaders used the peaceful access for hostile purposes to get it cut off. Before the intifada Palestine was the most prosperous non-oil Arab nation. Now it's one of the poorest in the world. Gaza is controlled by a food monopoly--you do what Hamas wants or you don't eat. (Look up "water monopoly" for a picture of what's going on.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Israel was their biggest problem. Israel wrecked their economy, blew up their power plant, kept them hungry, destroyed their infrastructure and their schools, and with Netanyahu leading the government was going to crush and re-colonize them no matter who was nominally in charge.

You have it backwards. All the horrors that you refer to are deliberately initiated by the terrorists. The more Gaza suffers the more the terrorists benefit.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Not just journalists. Hamas' own death notices confirm that many health workers are also moonlighting as terrorists. Or are terrorists moonlighting as healthcare workers?

Gaza death notices show some so-called health workers were operating for terror groups

I read the article. The “many” is an exaggeration. As is “moonlighting as terrorists”.

Employment by Hamas does not make one a terrorist. Engaging in terrorism makes one a terrorist.

Here's a hundred of them:

And employment by Hamas does make one a terrorist. Same as the getaway driver is guilty of whatever happens in the bank robbery.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The biggest problem (for the Gazans) is their seemingly insatiable desire to attack Jews. If it were not Hamas then it would be Fatah or Islmaic Jihad or other of the assortment of anti-Jewish groups that proliferate in that area.
When Israel pulled out in 2005 both were given the opportunity to give peace a chance. They did not take it. Neither side truly wants to live in peace with the other. They are so caught up in the votex of violence that neither misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity for peace.

The fundamental problem is that that seemingly insatiable desire to attack is actually due to the vast sums being poured into making them do that. No group could maintain sensible behavior against that kind of pressure.

 

[laughing dog]

The gov't of Israel imprisons Palestinians without charges (which is effective kidnapping).

The "administrative detention" is based on a law that was left over from the British Mandate. The detention still needs to be authorized by a judge and is reviewed by a judge every six months.

And those held in administrative detention are affiliated with terrorist groups and often have previously been convicted of terrorism charges. So it's not at all akin to Hamas and allied groups grabbing random civilians from a music festival and from their homes, including small children.

Israelis brace to learn the fate of Hamas' youngest hostage, taken captive as a baby

Holding people against their will without charges on suspicion of terrorism and sometimes torturing them is “akin” to kidnapping.

Prisoners of war almost never get trials. Being captured in battle is enough.

Besides, Hamas identifies the terrorists anyway. The ones they demand the release of are terrorists.

And the ones who Hamas does not demand for release?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This is what always happens when you let just anyone in to your country. They do not assimilate to the culture. They cause trouble and sometimes commit terrorism. They steal land and take what they want without compensation.

I'm talking about the Jews.

So you expect them to assimilate to a culture that gives them the Jim Crow treatment?