Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Derec]

How to say, don't take anything I ever say seriously, without saying 'don't take anything I ever say seriously'. The parallels between Pearl Harbor and 10/7 are near non-existent, other than there was an attacker and an attacked. Scope, goals, targets, history. Jesus Fucking Christ what a stupid thing to say.

There are similarities, but also differences. If anything, 10/7 was worse because Japanese did not massacre and kidnap civilians.

And the entire strawman of 'Israel isn't allowed to defend itself then?!' is just as stupid.

It's not a strawman though. Protesters demanding "ceasefire now" literally the day after these attacks shows that they do not think Israel should be able to defend themselves against Palestinian attacks, no matter how brutal.

The issue wasn't self defense, it was the extensive duration,

Two years between the 2023 attacks and the 2025 is not that extensive in duration, and is in fact much shorter than similar US operations, e.g. in Afghanistan.

widespread nature,

Hamas and its allies had a widespread presence in Gaza, which necessitated a widespread response. You attack where the enemy is.

and seemingly inhumane take on it..

In reality it is the Hamas tactics that made this war more inhumane than it needed to be.

and how it wasn't getting the hostages home.

But it did. What would be the alternative? Hamas thought - because of the lopsided exchange rate in the Shalit deal among other things - that hundreds of hostages they took would guarantee them release of all Palestinian terrorists. Without this war, that would be the price they would not have budged from. Furthermore, the ~1200 dead Israelis would also remain unavenged and Hamas would have emerged stronger, both because this victory would be a major propaganda coup but also because they would have increased their ranks by thousands of experienced terrorists.
Instead, many thousands of Hamas leaders and fighters have been killed or maimed, most of their hardware as well as most of their tunnel network has been destroyed, and Israel - while still having to release many terror prisoners - released far fewer than they would have had to without this war.

The proposal of freeing the hostages without taking the war to Hamas and their allies is just not tenable nor feasible. And, remember, this is a war that Hamas and its Gaza allies started. Israel is just faulted for not immediately capitulating, which is insane.

 

[laughing dog]

And you know this because…..?

Because I know a bit about recent history.
It doesn't take a lot.
Tom

Then provide evidence of this knowledge of the instead of waving your hand.

I ask because the most frequent explanation I see here is antisemitism.

 

[Emily Lake]

No need, your post does not address my Israel’s caring about Gazans.

The Israelis have done more to promote peace and prosperity for Palestinians, especially Gazans, than the Palestinians leadership has done for generations!
That's why the violent Islamists have been starting wars against Israel all these decades.
Tom

So violent Islamists have been starting violent wars against Israel because of Israel’s success in promoting peace and prosperity in the West Bank and Gaza?

No. Because “kill the infidel” is a fundamental tenet of their religious belief.

 

[laughing dog]

No need, your post does not address my Israel’s caring about Gazans.

The Israelis have done more to promote peace and prosperity for Palestinians, especially Gazans, than the Palestinians leadership has done for generations!
That's why the violent Islamists have been starting wars against Israel all these decades.
Tom

So violent Islamists have been starting violent wars against Israel because of Israel’s success in promoting peace and prosperity in the West Bank and Gaza?

No. Because “kill the infidel” is a fundamental tenet of their religious belief.

Tell that to TomC, not me.

 

[Arctish]

I don't think its always antisemitism. But often when pro-Palestine supporters try arguing their case there's no arguments. There's zero attempt to understand the actions of Israel. Then its antisemitism. That's all that's left.

But most often I think its antisemetic propaganda that gets spread and passed around. When it reaches someone otherwise sensible, they might be convinced by the argument. That is still antisemitism. We would never condone anyome committing an act of hate crime, just because they didn't know any better in any other context.

There's now more antisemetic propaganda floating about, on every channel, than ever before. Failure to do due diligence and think critically about it at this time, I think is inexcusable.

I niether tolerate antisemitism due to ignorance or maliciousness. Because the result is the same.

And this is perhaps the most important. Israel controlling Gaza, is at the moment, probably, the Gazan peoples best and only chance to be ruled by a power that cares about them, and offer stability, wise and non-corrupt govornence. So being pro Israel right now is also being pro Palestine. And being pro-Palestine right now, is in practice being pro-Hamas, which will only lead to endless carnage.

If you care about Palestinian civilians the best option is to support Israel

View attachment 55860

Because religious zealots who engage in terrorist actions have proven themselves to be fair governors of their people and support democracy and liberty?

The irony is that aptly describes the ultra-orthodox right in Israel.

Do you actually think that Hamas is going to become a bastion of freedom and sustainability if they succeed in genociding the entire Israeli population? Or do you think that palestinians are going to somehow force democracy into place and vote hamas out, and hamas will meekly concede to the wishes of the people?

Because my money is on them ruling like afghanistan and iran.

You missed the point. It is either delusional or mendacious to claim the gov’t of Israel cares about Gazans or that it will oversee Gaza with wisdom as Dr Z claims.

No one is suggesting Gazans will become paragons of democracy or that they will obliterate Israel. Those are straw men.

In all of the Middle-East the Palestinians living inside Israel are the least oppressed and most free Palestinians. That includes oppression by other Palestinians. The Palestinians living inside Israel are among the most free people and least oppressed in all of the Middle-East.

Tell me more about how I'm deluded?

The slaves who were referred to as house n*****s in the Antebellum South of the United States were the least oppressed and most free of all the black people in Mississippi.

That does not mean their human rights were generally respected.

Heck, it doesn't even mean their humanity was generally accepted.

Also, you are deluded in thinking Palestinians found no refuge anywhere in the region outside of Israel. But even if you were right, you are even more deluded in thinking your assertion is somehow an argument against the Right of Palestinians to return to their former homes. If anything, it strengthens the argument that they should be allowed back since they will be less oppressed there. And it mirrors the Zionist claim that Jews have a Right of Return to the land around Jerusalem due to all the oppression they suffer outside of it.

 

[Arctish]

Several peqce accords were trashed by Israel. They don't want it.

Bullshit. Israel successfully made peace deals with Egypt and Jordan. And Israel offered Palestinians a very generous peace accord at Camp David.

Tell us more about this generous offer.

What specifically was offered? What borders were proposed? What resources would be shared, what would be exclusively Palestinian, who would be in charge of the sacred sites, and how would compliance be monitored and policed?

I can link to the Oslo Accords so you can read the details. Link to this proposal you keep talking about so we can all see how "generous" it was in comparison.

Also, please stop lying about the Camp David negotiations.