Gender derail from "Another day" thread.

[fast]

Your husband? Should I refrain from assuming what is ordinarily meant by that?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Seems simpler to just use neutral pronouns/names unless the person requests otherwise. Not sure why people 'need to know' for any real reason. Why does the dentist need to know one's gender? My husband was asked about gender on a information sheet for an EYE DOCTOR. And EYE DOCTOR! He refused to answer so they wouldn't take him as a patient.

Good for the doctor. It's not something you should hide from any medical people. You don't know what might be relevant. Off the top of my head there's the fact that males are far more likely to have color vision issues and only females can have tetrachromancy. (Which is not a defect but still could be relevant.) Also, many drugs are contraindicated for pregnancy, you don't write for them without verifying the woman isn't pregnant. Just because someone presents as male doesn't mean pregnancy is imposs

You deal with a professional, you don't refuse to provide information because you don't see the relevance.

 

[Jarhyn]

Your husband? Should I refrain from assuming what is ordinarily meant by that?

You should probably refrain from assuming much of anything, since methinks it just makes an ass out of you.

Your posts so far miss a very important fact that, perhaps you were just born too early or too unfortunately to have gotten the modern take on the subject to understand: sex isn't just about the genitals.

There 3+n(>=1) elements that go into sex, biologically. There are hormonal glands (1), there are genitals (1), and there are brain structures (n>=1). This is even a gross oversimplification as there are also microcellular components (such as androgen receptors), but behaviorally, I'm lumping that into the "brain structures" group.

Of genitals, there is a wide degree of variation, everything from a fairly common instance (.5-2%) born "intersexed", with the genitals themselves presenting in some obviously structural "in between-ness". You can look up "intersex" at your own leisure.

Also among intersexed people are a large segment whose bodies have some admixture of ovaries and penis (presenting to the world as seemingly normal or occasionally undescended testicles) or vagina and testicles.

But sometimes the gonads themselves are not even consistently expressed. Sometimes you get ovaries that churn out testosterone. A relatively common example of such a condition is observed in XXY(+) individuals, the (+) to denote additional X or Y members. Sometimes you get people who have testicles that churn out estrogen. If you could even call either of these things "ovaries" or "testicles" in the first place.

That leads me to what role hormonal glands play: no matter what configuration that someone presents genital or gonad-wise, the whole body and mind will notably sing a different song of behavior and emotional balance with a particular hormonal balance. This is clearly a part of "sex".

Then, there is the brain. I don't know how much you study of the brain, but I study it pretty deeply. It dictates a lot. But to understand about why this is the most complicated part of the equation, you have to understand that the human body is produced through the application of a chemical algorithm.

Now, I've studied algorithms, more than I study anything else. My career is built around understanding, designing, and implementing algorithms: some loop operates in one way until some condition occurs and the loop either breaks or changes. A good example of how this can be expressed in nature is the mushroom fruit body.

In the mushroom, there is a network of filliments that just kind of grows willy-nilly through the food source like roots, expanding. But when water or nutrient or light concentrations tip past a certain point, a signal shoots down the filliments, and they all begin pumping nutrients to "nucleation points", points that semi-randomly emerge in the network near confluences of filliments. As a result of this process, those moistures and nutrients cause a parallel outgrowth wherein a different cycle is expressed: near the base, there's a high concentration of particular chemicals in the nutrients, and as they grow out further from the food, that nutrient and chemical composition changes. At critical points through the process, the cells are set up in such a way to alter the algorithm: they will start to grow in different patterns. Here a cap, here a skirt, here a stalk, here a spore.

This relates to the brain because the brain itself grows out kind of like a mushroom. Most organs do, but the brain is important here because it grows out like an expanding mushroom, a set of interconnected neural filliments. But more than ever, a lot of these processes are sensitive to the smallest things, and as they grow, there are all sorts of chemical switches that go on and off. It's not nearly as simple as each cell knowing what it has to be because of DNA. After all, all the knowledge of what the earth is shaped like doesn't tell you dick about where you are or how to get there if you don't have clues as to where you are NOW; it's a big world. And to a cell, it's a big body.

But if your context is, "when you are surrounded by this GS with surface proteins A and B and see a concentration of chemical X greater than 4ppm, shut down gene 5b and turn on gene 5c, and this process determines whether you get a "boy" or a "girl" process executing... Well, it gets complicated if there was an error nucleating 5b/5c, or the gene responsible for other glands producing the signal hormone didn't make enough, or whatever other factor and that single process produced a strange structure.

The issue with the brain though is that it has so much complexity, especially in light of how often simple genitals end up in-between, that it can be on a whole different level with admixture.

So what that means for you is, your understanding of what makes a "biological male" is naive.

I have, through my life, liked fucking men, and have been intensely attracted to them in a preferential way so as to make those around me readily note my homosexuality. And ultimately, I consider myself the foremost authority on what it is that I like, and they have always been men.

Considering that the relatively simple structures of gonads go off the binary into the outskirts of bimodal at a frequency as high as 2% of the population, the intricacies of the brain are likely to go just as weird at a much higher rate; they are dictated by a larger variety of genes and a larger variety of signaling chemicals and epigenetics that is not strictly even related to the hormonal triggers that produce the genitals themselves. This would seemingly imply a percentage of the population higher than the base "intersex" rate for whom genitals are at the very least partially discordant with the expression produced by the brain, and this isn't even starting to enter into cultural.or personal preference, which makes it even more complicated, and in my opinion, not one iota less valid.

In fact, even if none of what I have explained about the complicated and fungible nature of natal biological algorithms were the case, I don't see any reason to deny people self-determination when it comes to puberty. I get to decide for myself what I want to learn, be, do. I should get to decide this thing, this very important thing, for myself too, and be able to live with the consequences of my own choices because they are mine.

My husband has gone through these changes. My husband has passed the "smell test" that more men in my life have passed than I can easily count (I've been a massive whore through my life). My husband acts and thinks in a way that is male. And most importantly, they have made a choice as to who they are and lived true enough to that choice that I respect them.for this truth to their identity.

TL;DR: you don't know enough about what a man is for me to give a shit about what you would assume I mean by it.

 

[Bullmoose Too]

Someone doesn't understand basic biology. Born with a penis=man. Born with a vagina=woman.

No amount of delusion will change that. The only people who misgender are trans people and the people who support them.

It is the year 2019 and people still need to be educated on this simple fact:

Women are not men. Men are not women.

Very simple.

What if a person is intersex?

 

[Half-Life]

Someone doesn't understand basic biology. Born with a penis=man. Born with a vagina=woman.

No amount of delusion will change that. The only people who misgender are trans people and the people who support them.

It is the year 2019 and people still need to be educated on this simple fact:

Women are not men. Men are not women.

Very simple.

What if a person is intersex?

That is an outlier.

That's like me saying, "Humans are born with legs and arms" and you say, "Some people are born with no arms or legs so being born with arms and legs can't be considered normal!"

They would be outliers, not the norm.

 

[fast]

What if a person is intersex?

That is an outlier.

That's like me saying, "Humans are born with legs and arms" and you say, "Some people are born with no arms or legs so being born with arms and legs can't be considered normal!"

They would be outliers, not the norm.

Exactly. Exceptions prove (not disprove) what is generally the case

 

[Jarhyn]

What if a person is intersex?

That is an outlier.

That's like me saying, "Humans are born with legs and arms" and you say, "Some people are born with no arms or legs so being born with arms and legs can't be considered normal!"

They would be outliers, not the norm.

This is specifically a conversation about the outliers. Trans people are uncommon outliers on the bimodal distribution. It is expected that trans people are intersexed, with the intersexed portion of their anatomy being brain regions rather than gonads (or both!)

To extend your analogy the whole point is that we are talking about the people born without arms and legs. The fact of the matter is we are talking about the reality of people to whom some weird shit happened, and you keep denying that they exist at all, and we keep pointing out that those people do exist.

 

[Half-Life]

What if a person is intersex?

That is an outlier.

That's like me saying, "Humans are born with legs and arms" and you say, "Some people are born with no arms or legs so being born with arms and legs can't be considered normal!"

They would be outliers, not the norm.

This is specifically a conversation about the outliers. Trans people are uncommon outliers on the bimodal distribution. It is expected that trans people are intersexed, with the intersexed portion of their anatomy being brain regions rather than gonads (or both!)

To extend your analogy the whole point is that we are talking about the people born without arms and legs. The fact of the matter is we are talking about the reality of people to whom some weird shit happened, and you keep denying that they exist at all, and we keep pointing out that those people do exist.

I am aware trans people exist, but they are delusional. Remember the old saying, "Sitting in your garage yelling "vroom vroom!" does not make you a car no matter how much you think it does. It is a mental problem. We help mentally unstable people, not persist in their delusional.

No parent of someone who sits in their garage going "vroom vroom!" will say, "OK son, let me pour gasoline down your throat because cars need gas to go!"

 

[Jarhyn]

This is specifically a conversation about the outliers. Trans people are uncommon outliers on the bimodal distribution. It is expected that trans people are intersexed, with the intersexed portion of their anatomy being brain regions rather than gonads (or both!)

To extend your analogy the whole point is that we are talking about the people born without arms and legs. The fact of the matter is we are talking about the reality of people to whom some weird shit happened, and you keep denying that they exist at all, and we keep pointing out that those people do exist.

I am aware trans people exist, but they are delusional. Remember the old saying, "Sitting in your garage yelling "vroom vroom!" does not make you a car no matter how much you think it does. It is a mental problem. We help mentally unstable people, not persist in their delusional.

No parent of someone who sits in their garage going "vroom vroom!" will say, "OK son, let me pour gasoline down your throat because cars need gas to go!"

And you'd be wrong in assuming that. What part about "part of sexual dimorphosm includes brain development" do you not understand? It isn't a delusion that brain region dimorphism is a thing, and that people can end up intersexed in the brain independently from and to the same extent as genital intersexing.

 

[Half-Life]

This is specifically a conversation about the outliers. Trans people are uncommon outliers on the bimodal distribution. It is expected that trans people are intersexed, with the intersexed portion of their anatomy being brain regions rather than gonads (or both!)

To extend your analogy the whole point is that we are talking about the people born without arms and legs. The fact of the matter is we are talking about the reality of people to whom some weird shit happened, and you keep denying that they exist at all, and we keep pointing out that those people do exist.

I am aware trans people exist, but they are delusional. Remember the old saying, "Sitting in your garage yelling "vroom vroom!" does not make you a car no matter how much you think it does. It is a mental problem. We help mentally unstable people, not persist in their delusional.

No parent of someone who sits in their garage going "vroom vroom!" will say, "OK son, let me pour gasoline down your throat because cars need gas to go!"

And you'd be wrong in assuming that. What part about "part of sexual dimorphosm includes brain development" do you not understand? It isn't a delusion that brain region dimorphism is a thing, and that people can end up intersexed in the brain independently from and to the same extent as genital intersexing.

But, what about the girl who said she's a cat and put on cat ears and was on all fours meowing? It's something in her brain doing this, right? But, does this mean we should treat her like a cat?

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLmwLcLikXQ[/YOUTUBE]

That has to be depressing. Her parents must want her to get a job and she says, "Cats don't have jobs!" I feel sorry for her parents. They'll be supporting her for her whole life.

 

[Jarhyn]

And you'd be wrong in assuming that. What part about "part of sexual dimorphosm includes brain development" do you not understand? It isn't a delusion that brain region dimorphism is a thing, and that people can end up intersexed in the brain independently from and to the same extent as genital intersexing.

But, what about the girl who said she's a cat and put on cat ears and was on all fours meowing? It's something in her brain doing this, right? But, does this mean we should treat her like a cat?

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLmwLcLikXQ[/YOUTUBE]

Well, if you decide to play nice and don't give her shit for liking what she likes, allow her to act like a cat, you might get introduced to some pussy.

If you have a problem with her, don't look up "furries"; I wouldn't want your brain to explode. Or on second thought, I take that back, do look it up. On Bing, not on Google. Google won't show you any of the "good stuff". Or NSFW: e621.net. Just search "cat girl". You're welcome.

Edit: thanks though, I've been dying to make that cat-girl/pussy pun for a few pages now.

Edit2: god I wish there was a way to see how many times a posted link here was clicked...

 

[Keith&Co.]

That has to be depressing. Her parents must want her to get a job and she says, "Cats don't have jobs!" I feel sorry for her parents. They'll be supporting her for her whole life.

What is it to you?
Why do you care?

 

[Jarhyn]

That has to be depressing. Her parents must want her to get a job and she says, "Cats don't have jobs!" I feel sorry for her parents. They'll be supporting her for her whole life.

What is it to you?
Why do you care?

Pretty sure it's just assuming at this point. I know literally hundreds, if not thousands of people who identify as non-human animals, and most are employed.

 

[Keith&Co.]

That has to be depressing. Her parents must want her to get a job and she says, "Cats don't have jobs!" I feel sorry for her parents. They'll be supporting her for her whole life.

What is it to you?
Why do you care?

Pretty sure it's just assuming at this point. I know literally hundreds, if not thousands of people who identify as non-human animals, and most are employed.

Yeah, i mean, if i imagine i'm an ape, i can also imagine i am an ape who can drive a car, create a power point, and explain the Fire Control Problem to coworkers at General Dynamics, Mission Systems, Primate Business Unit.

Or a T-Rex. Or a meat popsicle.

It's really amazing how seldomly anyone even asks if i self-identify as a human.

Oh, and for the pun.

 

[Half-Life]

That has to be depressing. Her parents must want her to get a job and she says, "Cats don't have jobs!" I feel sorry for her parents. They'll be supporting her for her whole life.

What is it to you?
Why do you care?

That's rich coming from you guys!

Why do you care about white supremacy if you're white? They're not out to get you!

 

[ZiprHead]

That has to be depressing. Her parents must want her to get a job and she says, "Cats don't have jobs!" I feel sorry for her parents. They'll be supporting her for her whole life.

What is it to you?
Why do you care?

That's rich coming from you guys!

Why do you care about white supremacy if you're white? They're not out to get you!

Really???

 

[Keith&Co.]

That has to be depressing. Her parents must want her to get a job and she says, "Cats don't have jobs!" I feel sorry for her parents. They'll be supporting her for her whole life.

What is it to you?
Why do you care?

That's rich coming from you guys!

Why do you care about white supremacy if you're white? They're not out to get you!

They are, actually. So you are
WRONG
AGAIN!

But why thus answer?
Do you think catpeople are out to get you? Is that why you care?

 

[Half-Life]

That's rich coming from you guys!

Why do you care about white supremacy if you're white? They're not out to get you!

They are, actually. So you are
WRONG
AGAIN!

But why thus answer?
Do you think catpeople are out to get you? Is that why you care?

I do not condone mass murder. But, there were reports from white people that the El Paso shooter let whites leave the store and didn't shoot them. It's still sick and disgusting.

 

[Jarhyn]

That has to be depressing. Her parents must want her to get a job and she says, "Cats don't have jobs!" I feel sorry for her parents. They'll be supporting her for her whole life.

What is it to you?
Why do you care?

That's rich coming from you guys!

Why do you care about white supremacy if you're white? They're not out to get you!

Yes they are. Because I accept the social paradigm rather than the solipsistic paradigm: an injury to others is an injury to the self of "us", regardless of what they look like, or even what species they hail from. Because while I may not consider you to be a person, I most definitely would consider, say, Koko the Gorilla a person (RIP).

 

[Half-Life]

That's rich coming from you guys!

Why do you care about white supremacy if you're white? They're not out to get you!

Yes they are. Because I accept the social paradigm rather than the solipsistic paradigm: an injury to others is an injury to the self of "us", regardless of what they look like, or even what species they hail from. Because while I may not consider you to be a person, I most definitely would consider, say, Koko the Gorilla a person (RIP).

If white supremacists went around shooting whites, it would defeat their purpose.