Gender derail from "Another day" thread.

[Shadowy Man]

As someone who is totally straight I find penises in porn a turn-off--yet most porn contains penises. That strongly suggests to me that most guys aren't totally straight.

Maybe men like seeing penises in their porn because they like to imagine that it is their penis in the sex acts, not that they are sexually aroused by said penis. Ever think of that?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Maybe men like seeing penises in their porn because they like to imagine that it is their penis in the sex acts, not that they are sexually aroused by said penis. Ever think of that?

^This.^

To me, the penus is neither a turn-off nor a turn-on. More if a barometer. Or a laugh track.

The sex is presented as a mind-blowing turn-on, and the woman as a sexual goddess, so one would expect to see a very erect penis. I would certainly like to think that if i were in that situation, i would be very turned on, but all too often the dick is limp. I don't know if he's just not that into her, or if she wasn't...fresh...when she arrived for work that evening, or maybe it's his sixth sex scene of the night and Aphrodite herself couldn't get him any hatder, but it is disappointing.

But also it can be funny. Watching the poor girl trying to hide how soft it is, trying to prop it up, pretending to be torn apart by the blue-steel hard-on when really, it's like fucking a worm. Some of the best acting in porn right there...

 

[Toni]

You mean his TG sister, not brother.

The media was correct.

The Dayton shooter did not kill his sister; he killed his trans brother.

He was not motivated by any flavor of leftist ideology.

Nope. "Brother" is the correct terminology. Your terminology implies that the person's gender identity was "woman". It was not.

Anything less than accepting this person's chosen identity is an insult to who they are. I cannot speak to the quality of their attempts to live their identity; I cannot say he was GOOD at being a man, but it is not yours to say he wasn't a man; it was his own, and he said it in his life

Until I just looked it up, I did not know until I found news stories just now that the sibling killed was transgender. I now understand the conflicting reports in the media and the confusion. The sibling was born apparently female and was 'out' to only a handful of people, according to the media. The parents who would have identified both bodies likely knew the sibling as female/Megan but according to at least some media, only a handful of people knew the sibling as male/Jordan. It seems possible and even probable that they did not know that their 'daughter' was transgender and male/Jordan.

Initially, I thought the media made an error in later reporting dead the sister as brother but now I understand the confusion.

I agree that it is disrespectful not to refer to individuals by the gender and names they prefer. I also know from experience that it is sometimes difficult to make the mental shifts that accommodate the new understanding of the individual and that names and pronouns one uses for individuals are really ingrained in our memories. A child I watched grow up as a girl always referred to herself as a boy, from at least kindergarten age. I knew that they were not pretending but really felt male. At the time, transgender issues were not at all mainstream, although I was aware of transgender individuals and that it was real and not some fantasy. However, for this individual there was sufficient family dysfunction that I was not completely certain that this child was not reacting to some pretty messed up family dynamics, although I was pretty sure that wasn't the case and that the child was truly transgender. Again: highly dysfunctional family where 3 of the 4 kids ended up in mental hospitals for a time and at least 3 have, to my knowledge. attempted suicide. The children were far nicer and more functional than the parents, imo. It was a bad situation all around.

When I learned that this individual, as a young adult now living in a different state, had transitioned with a new name and new pronouns, , it made sense to me and seemed consistent with who I knew this person to be when they were a child. And still, in my mind, I think of this child by their childhood name which was female. Since I haven't seen this person in many years, well before the transition, it hasn't become an issue where I would have chance of making an error that would be hurtful. Or where I would have a chance to know this now adult as a man. The truth is, when I sometimes see now adults that I knew as children and haven't seen them since their childhoods, I am flooded with the memories of that person as a child while talking with an adult. I have to make a conscious effort to not bring up cute stories from when they were children. It's much easier when I have seen the now adults continually from childhood to adulthood: you see and expect and register the changes that come with time. Possibly they look at me and wonder how I got to be so old.

Change can be hard.

 

[Jarhyn]

Nope. "Brother" is the correct terminology. Your terminology implies that the person's gender identity was "woman". It was not.

Anything less than accepting this person's chosen identity is an insult to who they are. I cannot speak to the quality of their attempts to live their identity; I cannot say he was GOOD at being a man, but it is not yours to say he wasn't a man; it was his own, and he said it in his life

Until I just looked it up, I did not know until I found news stories just now that the sibling killed was transgender. I now understand the conflicting reports in the media and the confusion. The sibling was born apparently female and was 'out' to only a handful of people, according to the media. The parents who would have identified both bodies likely knew the sibling as female/Megan but according to at least some media, only a handful of people knew the sibling as male/Jordan. It seems possible and even probable that they did not know that their 'daughter' was transgender and male/Jordan.

Initially, I thought the media made an error in later reporting dead the sister as brother but now I understand the confusion.

I agree that it is disrespectful not to refer to individuals by the gender and names they prefer. I also know from experience that it is sometimes difficult to make the mental shifts that accommodate the new understanding of the individual and that names and pronouns one uses for individuals are really ingrained in our memories. A child I watched grow up as a girl always referred to herself as a boy, from at least kindergarten age. I knew that they were not pretending but really felt male. At the time, transgender issues were not at all mainstream, although I was aware of transgender individuals and that it was real and not some fantasy. However, for this individual there was sufficient family dysfunction that I was not completely certain that this child was not reacting to some pretty messed up family dynamics, although I was pretty sure that wasn't the case and that the child was truly transgender. Again: highly dysfunctional family where 3 of the 4 kids ended up in mental hospitals for a time and at least 3 have, to my knowledge. attempted suicide. The children were far nicer and more functional than the parents, imo. It was a bad situation all around.

When I learned that this individual, as a young adult now living in a different state, had transitioned with a new name and new pronouns, , it made sense to me and seemed consistent with who I knew this person to be when they were a child. And still, in my mind, I think of this child by their childhood name which was female. Since I haven't seen this person in many years, well before the transition, it hasn't become an issue where I would have chance of making an error that would be hurtful. Or where I would have a chance to know this now adult as a man. The truth is, when I sometimes see now adults that I knew as children and haven't seen them since their childhoods, I am flooded with the memories of that person as a child while talking with an adult. I have to make a conscious effort to not bring up cute stories from when they were children. It's much easier when I have seen the now adults continually from childhood to adulthood: you see and expect and register the changes that come with time. Possibly they look at me and wonder how I got to be so old.

Change can be hard.

I totally get that, and I don't think any reasonable person would judge someone over the long term for needing time to transition their understanding of a longtime friend, family or acquaintence's gender transition/announcement.

It's OK to be a little confused surrounding a person's transition. And I think a lot of people who transition can, occasionally, be unfair to those around them during that process: sometimes they want it to happen more quickly than such things are possible.

That said, all we can ever really do is try to be sincere and understanding for each other as possible; we need to talk and communicate honestly and openly, and in doing so, come to common ground.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Maybe men like seeing penises in their porn because they like to imagine that it is their penis in the sex acts, not that they are sexually aroused by said penis. Ever think of that?

^This.^

To me, the penus is neither a turn-off nor a turn-on. More if a barometer. Or a laugh track.

The sex is presented as a mind-blowing turn-on, and the woman as a sexual goddess, so one would expect to see a very erect penis. I would certainly like to think that if i were in that situation, i would be very turned on, but all too often the dick is limp. I don't know if he's just not that into her, or if she wasn't...fresh...when she arrived for work that evening, or maybe it's his sixth sex scene of the night and Aphrodite herself couldn't get him any hatder, but it is disappointing.

But also it can be funny. Watching the poor girl trying to hide how soft it is, trying to prop it up, pretending to be torn apart by the blue-steel hard-on when really, it's like fucking a worm. Some of the best acting in porn right there...

He might as well be saying that men who masturbate aren’t straight because they like to hold penises in their hands.

 

[Half-Life]

We need to establish what a homosexual is. Attraction to the same sex: man likes man.

So if a woman claims "I am a man!" even though she has a vagina, you would have to say the man engaged in homosexual activity????

If a man claims, "I am a woman!" even though he has a penis, you would have to say the man has engaged in straight activity????

Holy hell!

 

[Elixir]

We need to establish what a homosexual is.

Maybe YOU do.
I won't ask why.

 

[Keith&Co.]

We need to establish what a homosexual is.

Maybe YOU do.
I won't ask why.

He's REALLY big on labels. And lines of distinction.
And other men's (and women's) penises.
He just cannot stop talking about divks and where they might be hiding....

 

[Half-Life]

We need to establish what a homosexual is.

Maybe YOU do.
I won't ask why.

He's REALLY big on labels. And lines of distinction.
And other men's (and women's) penises.
He just cannot stop talking about divks and where they might be hiding....

If you believe trans people are real, then there can be no such thing as gay or straight.

 

[Keith&Co.]

He's REALLY big on labels. And lines of distinction.
And other men's (and women's) penises.
He just cannot stop talking about divks and where they might be hiding....

If you believe trans people are real, then there can be no such thing as gay or straight.

Actually, it's a completely separate issue. What one self-identifies as, and what one wants to sleep with.
Much too complicated to just throw some labels out there and say, 'There, sorted.'

But, you know, if experts do decide that there is no such thing as 'straight,' that will not affect my self-image. You're gonna lose your shit, clearly, but i'm pretty secure in my self-identity. I don't need the label.

 

[Elixir]

He's REALLY big on labels. And lines of distinction.

That's a common feature of conservatives and those who would rile them up.
But really? NEED to ESTABLISH what a homosexual is?
Is the live "half" suffering extreme gender dysphoria, or what?
He certainly isn't explaining anything that rises to the level of "need". Could be the language barrier.

 

[Keith&Co.]

He's REALLY big on labels. And lines of distinction.

That's a common feature of conservatives and those who would rile them up.
But really? NEED to ESTABLISH what a homosexual is?
Is the live "half" suffering extreme gender dysphoria, or what?
He certainly isn't explaining anything that rises to the level of "need". Could be the language barrier.

Well, you note that the opening, 'we ned to establish' was just an excuse for half to post HIS take, and yhen go on a rant as if we all agreed.
So, 'need' was to ptretend he was speaking for a majority...

 

[fast]

We need to establish what a homosexual is. Attraction to the same sex: man likes man.

To expound on this, I would keep sharply in mind the difference between sex and gender. The way you and I were raised, every male is a man and every man is a male. It wouldn’t make a darn difference whether a bathroom door read “men only” or “males only.” You and I would know exactly who does and who does not belong.

When a baby boy is born, it’s a male. If the baby is a male, it’s a baby boy—-in our world.

There’s some crazy stuff out there. You (yourself) brought up the lady who thinks she’s a cat, and I’ll be darned if I’m going to succumb to the notion that she is a cat merely because she’s in a state of psychological dipshitism. However, not all of what appears on the surface as crazy is in fact so. When a male (and i’m referencing sex) says that ‘she’ feels like a woman (my reference to gender) inside, either ‘she’ is as psychologically screwed up in the head as catwoman or there is an actual biological basis that explains why ‘she’ feels like she was born in the wrong body.

Do I think there is an underlying cultural change that might be encouraging such declarations? You bet I do, but I cannot filter out the liberally dominated studies that do nothing to support my thoughts, so giving them the benefit of serious doubt, we are left to wade our way through the disconnect between sex and gender.

For example, using “male” and “female” to refer to a persons sex and “man” and “woman” to refer to a persons gender, we now have to take excruciating care not to fumble over our terms to follow the implications.

For instance, no more balloons in maternity wards that read “it’s a baby boy.” We can far more often than not determine a babies sex, so the balloon shall now read, “it’s a baby male.” Afterall, we are told that it’s absolutely false that a male that feels like a woman changes gender. They are saying they were born the gender they feel inside—and born in the wrong body.

To recap and elaborate: the baby is born male. No one knows the gender. Parents will mistakenly think there is no mismatch between its sex and gender and indoctrinate the child to act as a boy/man misbased on the child’s sex. The baby will grow up and realize ‘she’ is a woman. She will stop acting like a man because acting like a man is not being true to herself.

What is changing is how the person projects ‘herself’. Before as a man BUT NOW as a woman. The gender has not in fact changed. However, neither has the sex. She was and is a MALE WOMAN. If someone argues otherwise, be careful not to let the emotional distress of one’s avoidance of male terminology distract from the concept. She (or he or it) was born with and still has a dick, and how’s the ole saying go “shit by any other name stinks just as foul.”

Oh, and I think a homosexual is one attracted to the same SEX.

A male who self identifies as a woman who is attracted to females is still a male—even if her gender matches with the sex she is attracted to. Looks like we might need more terms to keep the items in this soup kitchen labeled.

 

[Half-Life]

We need to establish what a homosexual is. Attraction to the same sex: man likes man.

To expound on this, I would keep sharply in mind the difference between sex and gender. The way you and I were raised, every male is a man and every man is a male. It wouldn’t make a darn difference whether a bathroom door read “men only” or “males only.” You and I would know exactly who does and who does not belong.

When a baby boy is born, it’s a male. If the baby is a male, it’s a baby boy—-in our world.

There’s some crazy stuff out there. You (yourself) brought up the lady who thinks she’s a cat, and I’ll be darned if I’m going to succumb to the notion that she is a cat merely because she’s in a state of psychological dipshitism. However, not all of what appears on the surface as crazy is in fact so. When a male (and i’m referencing sex) says that ‘she’ feels like a woman (my reference to gender) inside, either ‘she’ is as psychologically screwed up in the head as catwoman or there is an actual biological basis that explains why ‘she’ feels like she was born in the wrong body.

Do I think there is an underlying cultural change that might be encouraging such declarations? You bet I do, but I cannot filter out the liberally dominated studies that do nothing to support my thoughts, so giving them the benefit of serious doubt, we are left to wade our way through the disconnect between sex and gender.

For example, using “male” and “female” to refer to a persons sex and “man” and “woman” to refer to a persons gender, we now have to take excruciating care not to fumble over our terms to follow the implications.

For instance, no more balloons in maternity wards that read “it’s a baby boy.” We can far more often than not determine a babies sex, so the balloon shall now read, “it’s a baby male.” Afterall, we are told that it’s absolutely false that a male that feels like a woman changes gender. They are saying they were born the gender they feel inside—and born in the wrong body.

To recap and elaborate: the baby is born male. No one knows the gender. Parents will mistakenly think there is no mismatch between its sex and gender and indoctrinate the child to act as a boy/man misbased on the child’s sex. The baby will grow up and realize ‘she’ is a woman. She will stop acting like a man because acting like a man is not being true to herself.

What is changing is how the person projects ‘herself’. Before as a man BUT NOW as a woman. The gender has not in fact changed. However, neither has the sex. She was and is a MALE WOMAN. If someone argues otherwise, be careful not to let the emotional distress of one’s avoidance of male terminology distract from the concept. She (or he or it) was born with and still has a dick, and how’s the ole saying go “shit by any other name stinks just as foul.”

Oh, and I think a homosexual is one attracted to the same SEX.

A male who self identifies as a woman who is attracted to females is still a male—even if her gender matches with the sex she is attracted to. Looks like we might need more terms to keep the items in this soup kitchen labeled.

I appreciate you taking the time to write that, as confusing as it was. But, thanks nonetheless.

But, it gets even crazier when I point out the fact that now people are saying, "We need to get rid of genders because they are sexist and made up by society." But, think about the consequences of this. How then can a man feel like a woman if gender roles are made up by society? If there is no difference between men and women, how can you feel like a man or a woman?

You yourself even said, "the child will stop acting like a boy and start acting like a girl." But, "acting like a boy" and "acting like a girl" is exactly what these SJW's want us to stop stereotyping! What does it mean to "act like a boy?" You see the complications and contradictions that arise from this philosophy?

 

[fast]

But, it gets even crazier when I point out the fact that now people are saying, "We need to get rid of genders because they are sexist and made up by society."

What I suspect is that they are trying to alter the construct of classification—from a dichotomous construct to that of as if belonging on some sort of sheeted continuum.

Let’s turn from gender to sex for a moment. A person is born either male or female. That simple truth is denied. They point out exceptions to support their contention we are incorrect. For instance, what if one is born with neither? What if one is born with both? What if one is born and it’s indeterminate? Underlying this is a divergent understanding of the claim “a person is born either male or female.”

If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have? The answer is four. It doesn’t matter what you CALL a tail; it will continue being just what it is regardless of what you call it—and a leg, it most certainly is not. Now, when someone points out that it depends on the dog because one may have gotten run over and had to have one amputated, we can see there is a divergence in the interpretation of what it even means to say that dogs have four legs. In this context, it does not mean, “all dogs have four legs.” What it means is that, “generally, dogs have four legs.” There are many (many) situations and contexts where that is the case.

Another example. Killing is wrong. That doesn’t mean (perhaps to the dismay of some readers) every killing is wrong. Pointing out a justified shooting doesn’t render the claim incorrect. It proves the rule, as they say. Generally speaking, killing is wrong.

Same thing here. Generally speaking, babies are born either male or female. One or the other. It’s one of the two options for which is generally the case. Yes, other possibilities exist, as having been pointed out, but this isn’t a trichotomy (male, female, other). Anomalies are NOT general cases—be they possibilities or otherwise.

So, when speaking of sex, those that would like to deny it’s dichotomous are going to have a more difficult hurdle to cross than gender. You and I, we see gender as either man or woman, but not everyone has the same level of masculinity or femininity. People that are even similar seem to have a range of departure from culturally expected behavior. Despite our ability to stereotype, the individual differences between people are so varied and wide, they think gender shouldnt be pigeon holed in some dichotomy but rather should be more individualistic as if people’s ‘gender’ should belong on a continuum that is far from being one or another.

But, think about the consequences of this. How then can a man feel like a woman if gender roles are made up by society?

If the person born male (the person’s sex) that feels inside as a woman (the persons gender) feels like a woman, then we’re not dealing with a case of a man feeling like a woman but rather a woman feeling like a woman.

But, wording aside, you have a good question. If there is no gender, how can one feel as if one belongs to that gender? Please keep in mind that I’m not espousing my view on this aspect of the issue. I’m grasping for a straw that might explain it. Let’s say the very usage of the polarizing terms nudges people to conform. If we didn’t use pronouns as if they were small dosage requests to act like others of like kind, then maybe people would just be themselves and act in accordance to how they feel and not act like society has come to collectively expect. So yes, there are genders, but if it’s a product of subtle societal influence and a stop was put to it by sustained non-use of such pronouns, then there’s the notion that people would begin to spread out over a broad non-dichotomous spectrum. At any rate, I took a stab at it.

 

[Playball40]

You mean his TG sister, not brother.

The media was correct.

The Dayton shooter did not kill his sister; he killed his trans brother.

He was not motivated by any flavor of leftist ideology.

Nope. "Brother" is the correct terminology. Your terminology implies that the person's gender identity was "woman". It was not.

Anything less than accepting this person's chosen identity is an insult to who they are. I cannot speak to the quality of their attempts to live their identity; I cannot say he was GOOD at being a man, but it is not yours to say he wasn't a man; it was his own, and he said it in his life

I think we are saying the same thing. If a MTF transgendered person identifies as female, they are a SISTER not a brother and called transgendered woman. If a FTM transgendered person identifies as male, they are called transgendered male. If his sibling was MTF then it was his sister (which is what I assumed), if they were FTM then it was his brother. Still, negative repping me is pretty childish, don't you think?

 

[Playball40]

Sexual orientation and gender are NOT the same thing.

We need to establish what a homosexual is. Attraction to the same sex: man likes man.

So if a woman claims "I am a man!" even though she has a vagina, you would have to say the man engaged in homosexual activity????

If a man claims, "I am a woman!" even though he has a penis, you would have to say the man has engaged in straight activity????

Holy hell!

 

[Playball40]

Seems simpler to just use neutral pronouns/names unless the person requests otherwise. Not sure why people 'need to know' for any real reason. Why does the dentist need to know one's gender? My husband was asked about gender on a information sheet for an EYE DOCTOR. And EYE DOCTOR! He refused to answer so they wouldn't take him as a patient.

We need to establish what a homosexual is. Attraction to the same sex: man likes man.

To expound on this, I would keep sharply in mind the difference between sex and gender. The way you and I were raised, every male is a man and every man is a male. It wouldn’t make a darn difference whether a bathroom door read “men only” or “males only.” You and I would know exactly who does and who does not belong.

When a baby boy is born, it’s a male. If the baby is a male, it’s a baby boy—-in our world.

There’s some crazy stuff out there. You (yourself) brought up the lady who thinks she’s a cat, and I’ll be darned if I’m going to succumb to the notion that she is a cat merely because she’s in a state of psychological dipshitism. However, not all of what appears on the surface as crazy is in fact so. When a male (and i’m referencing sex) says that ‘she’ feels like a woman (my reference to gender) inside, either ‘she’ is as psychologically screwed up in the head as catwoman or there is an actual biological basis that explains why ‘she’ feels like she was born in the wrong body.

Do I think there is an underlying cultural change that might be encouraging such declarations? You bet I do, but I cannot filter out the liberally dominated studies that do nothing to support my thoughts, so giving them the benefit of serious doubt, we are left to wade our way through the disconnect between sex and gender.

For example, using “male” and “female” to refer to a persons sex and “man” and “woman” to refer to a persons gender, we now have to take excruciating care not to fumble over our terms to follow the implications.

For instance, no more balloons in maternity wards that read “it’s a baby boy.” We can far more often than not determine a babies sex, so the balloon shall now read, “it’s a baby male.” Afterall, we are told that it’s absolutely false that a male that feels like a woman changes gender. They are saying they were born the gender they feel inside—and born in the wrong body.

To recap and elaborate: the baby is born male. No one knows the gender. Parents will mistakenly think there is no mismatch between its sex and gender and indoctrinate the child to act as a boy/man misbased on the child’s sex. The baby will grow up and realize ‘she’ is a woman. She will stop acting like a man because acting like a man is not being true to herself.

What is changing is how the person projects ‘herself’. Before as a man BUT NOW as a woman. The gender has not in fact changed. However, neither has the sex. She was and is a MALE WOMAN. If someone argues otherwise, be careful not to let the emotional distress of one’s avoidance of male terminology distract from the concept. She (or he or it) was born with and still has a dick, and how’s the ole saying go “shit by any other name stinks just as foul.”

Oh, and I think a homosexual is one attracted to the same SEX.

A male who self identifies as a woman who is attracted to females is still a male—even if her gender matches with the sex she is attracted to. Looks like we might need more terms to keep the items in this soup kitchen labeled.

 

[Toni]

Nope. "Brother" is the correct terminology. Your terminology implies that the person's gender identity was "woman". It was not.

Anything less than accepting this person's chosen identity is an insult to who they are. I cannot speak to the quality of their attempts to live their identity; I cannot say he was GOOD at being a man, but it is not yours to say he wasn't a man; it was his own, and he said it in his life

I think we are saying the same thing. If a MTF transgendered person identifies as female, they are a SISTER not a brother and called transgendered woman. If a FTM transgendered person identifies as male, they are called transgendered male. If his sibling was MTF then it was his sister (which is what I assumed), if they were FTM then it was his brother. Still, negative repping me is pretty childish, don't you think?

Given that at first, the sibling was reported as his sister, and then that his sibling was his brother, and add in the apparent fact that he was out to only a handful of people, it's pretty easy to see how any mistake was due to confusion.

 

[Toni]

Seems simpler to just use neutral pronouns/names unless the person requests otherwise. Not sure why people 'need to know' for any real reason. Why does the dentist need to know one's gender? My husband was asked about gender on a information sheet for an EYE DOCTOR. And EYE DOCTOR! He refused to answer so they wouldn't take him as a patient.

I assumed that they would ask because of potential medications that might affect eye health or vision but it turns out that the risks for some eye diseases are greater or lesser, depending on gender. I had no idea:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26508081

Abstract
Worldwide, the prevalence of moderate to severe visual impairment and blindness is 285 millions, with 65% of visually impaired and 82% of all blind people being 50 years and older. Meta-analyses have shown that two out of three blind people are women, a gender discrepancy that holds true for both developed and developing countries. Cataract accounts for more than half of all blindness globally and gender inequity in access to cataract surgery is the major cause of the higher prevalence of blindness in women. In addition to gender differences in cataract surgical coverage, population-based studies on the prevalence of lens opacities indicate that women have a higher risk of developing cataract. Laboratory as well as epidemiologic studies suggest that estrogen may confer antioxidative protection against cataractogenesis, but the withdrawal effect of estrogen in menopause leads to increased risk of cataract in women. For the other major age-related eye diseases; glaucoma, age-related macular degeneration (AMD) and diabetic retinopathy, data are inconclusive. Due to anatomic factors, angle closure glaucoma is more common in women, whereas the dominating glaucoma type; primary open-angle glaucoma (POAG), is more prevalent in men. Diabetic retinopathy also has a male predominance and vascular/circulatory factors have been implied both in diabetic retinopathy and in POAG. For AMD, data on gender differences are conflicting although some studies indicate increased prevalence of drusen and neovascular AMD in women. To conclude, both biologic and socioeconomic factors must be considered when investigating causes of gender differences in the prevalence of age-related eye disease.