Split Gendered spaces, split from Drag Shows

[Emily Lake]

Self-ID means that there are no gatekeepers or barriers to a person obtaining a legal change on their various documents.

I think you have to click your slipper heels three times saying “I wish I was a girl.” Then *poof* you’re a girl. The magic of self-ID.

This is what happens when pop culture gets hold of Descartes and doesn't bother to actually understand anything that supports the premise.

 

[Tigers!]

The judge effectively ruled that girls don't have the right to deny consent to males who want to look at them while they're naked. The judge legalized voyeurism against teenage girls.

So its not just Australia that has stupid magistrates.

 

[Tigers!]

Self-ID: You simply decide. As opposed to having your official ID issued in your new gender as part of the conversion process.

The reality of self-id is that there is no way at all to determine who is actually genuinely trans, and who is a predator with bad intentions. It's a sexual predator's daydream.

I have always preferred to err on the side of caution.

 

[Emily Lake]

The judge effectively ruled that girls don't have the right to deny consent to males who want to look at them while they're naked. The judge legalized voyeurism against teenage girls.

So its not just Australia that has stupid magistrates.

Not at all. And given the relatively federated status of our various states... we've got many different flavors of stupidity!

 

[TSwizzle]

I think you have to click your slipper heels three times saying “I wish I was a girl.” Then *poof* you’re a girl. The magic of self-ID.

A row has erupted online after First Lady Jill Biden gave a transgender woman from Argentina a 'Women of Courage' award during an International Women's Day ceremony. Biden yesterday presented awards to 11 recipients at the White House, one of whom was Alba Rueda, an Argentinian politician who became the first openly transgender lawmaker in Argentina to hold a senior political position in the country. Arkansas Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders, who has been a vocal critic of President Joe Biden, tweeted: 'It's International Women's Day - a good time to remember that the Democrats can't even tell you what a woman is.'

Daily Mail

 

[Emily Lake]

"Hey I know! For International Women's Day, let's make sure we hammer home to young girls that they can NEVER be as good as males! They're not even as good at being women as men are! Yeah, that's totally a message to get behind!"

I'm looking forward to next year, when they will give an award to Rachel Dolezal for her outstanding accomplishments and how she has helped the black community make progress.

 

[TomC]

"Hey I know! For International Women's Day, let's make sure we hammer home to young girls that they can NEVER be as good as males! They're not even as good at being women as men are! Yeah, that's totally a message to get behind!"

Mostly you and I agree on this thread, but that's not my takeaway from the award.

People get awards all the time. I don't claim to know anything important about this one.
What I'm seeing here, though, is different from your takeaway.

What I'm seeing is "Stay strong, focused, productive and community centered. You could win an international award.

Even if you're trans.

It's that last part that's the big deal.
Tom

 

[Emily Lake]

"Hey I know! For International Women's Day, let's make sure we hammer home to young girls that they can NEVER be as good as males! They're not even as good at being women as men are! Yeah, that's totally a message to get behind!"

Mostly you and I agree on this thread, but that's not my takeaway from the award.

People get awards all the time. I don't claim to know anything important about this one.
What I'm seeing here, though, is different from your takeaway.

What I'm seeing is "Stay strong, focused, productive and community centered. You could win an international award.

Even if you're trans.

It's that last part that's the big deal.
Tom

It's an award for WOMEN.

There have been several transgender identified males who have been given awards for WOMEN over the past few years. If it were just a general award, available to anyone of either sex, I'd have no problem at all. If it were an award focused on diversity in general, I'd have no problem. If it were an award for transgender people specifically, I'd applaud it.

But it's not - it's an award for WOMEN. That is being given to males. So when young girls are seeing this, they're seeing that females are being passed over for recognitions intended for women, in favor of males. How does that communicate to girls that women are valued as much as men? It doesn't, it just reinforces that society as a whole favors males over females - so much so that males are even favored at being women than actual women are.

 

[TomC]

How does that communicate to girls that women are valued as much as men?

I don't think it does.

It communicates that trans people are valued, sometimes.

Lemme ask you this.

Out of all the awards given out in the last five years, how many went to trans people?

How many "women's awards" went to "male women"? My guess is pretty darn few. Which is fine with me.

But you're begrudging one trans woman one award. One that is so unimportant that I didn't even know about it until it got mentioned on this thread.

Why are you doing that? Why are you begrudging one person one award of little importance?

Makes you look excruciatingly petty to me.
Tom

 

[Toni]

I see Emily's point, although I cannot comment on this particular award to this particular individual. As someone who grew up seeing women denied many opportunities, particularly with regards to things such as military service, it does rankle me a bit to see a transwoman recognized as the first woman to hold a particular position, particularly because they did not transition until they had completed their military service and educational path, both of which heavily favored men at the time. Do I have any issues with their accomplishments? No! Do I have any issues with them being a transwoman? No! Do I have any issues with them achieving the position and rank they achieved? No! But I do know that they could not have achieved the position they did on the path they did if they had done so as a woman and not as a man. This in no way takes away any credit due them for the enormous struggles they must have endured and overcome to achieve what they have achieved. But most of what they achieved, they did so as a man. As a woman, they would have never achieved the military rank they did. Unfortunately, military rank and military service still holds a great deal of influence over what one is able to achieve outside of the military.

 

[Oleg]

"Hey I know! For International Women's Day, let's make sure we hammer home to young girls that they can NEVER be as good as males! They're not even as good at being women as men are! Yeah, that's totally a message to get behind!"

Mostly you and I agree on this thread, but that's not my takeaway from the award.

People get awards all the time. I don't claim to know anything important about this one.
What I'm seeing here, though, is different from your takeaway.

What I'm seeing is "Stay strong, focused, productive and community centered. You could win an international award.

Even if you're trans.

It's that last part that's the big deal.
Tom

It's an award for WOMEN.

There have been several transgender identified males who have been given awards for WOMEN over the past few years. If it were just a general award, available to anyone of either sex, I'd have no problem at all. If it were an award focused on diversity in general, I'd have no problem. If it were an award for transgender people specifically, I'd applaud it.

But it's not - it's an award for WOMEN. That is being given to males. So when young girls are seeing this, they're seeing that females are being passed over for recognitions intended for women, in favor of males. How does that communicate to girls that women are valued as much as men? It doesn't, it just reinforces that society as a whole favors males over females - so much so that males are even favored at being women than actual women are.

 

[ZiprHead]

^^^ Jesus, Oleg. Are you being serious or just fucking with us???

 

[thebeave]

Women+? Period-havers? Oy.

 

[Oleg]

^^^ Jesus, Oleg. Are you being serious or just fucking with us???

Well, I cannot not see that men are telling women how to be women; that men are telling women that they are better women than them; that men are instructing women on what women's boundaries should be. It absolutely deserves mockery.

 

[ZiprHead]

^^^ Jesus, Oleg. Are you being serious or just fucking with us???

Well, I cannot not see that men are telling women how to be women; that men are telling women that they are better women than them; that men are instructing women on what women's boundaries should be. It absolutely deserves mockery.

By using a fake satire news site?

 

[Arctish]

Women+? Period-havers? Oy.

"Pox" magazine?

 

[repoman]

 

[Oleg]

^^^ Jesus, Oleg. Are you being serious or just fucking with us???

Well, I cannot not see that men are telling women how to be women; that men are telling women that they are better women than them; that men are instructing women on what women's boundaries should be. It absolutely deserves mockery.

By using a fake satire news site?

You've never read the Onion?

 

[repoman]

This is admittedly a tangent, but I think that there is enough overlap to make it worthwhile.



What is wrong with people? This is an artist who needs to have some sympatico with what they draw. If they are not interested other artists can do a good job with gay male and transgender art commissions.

I really doubt that it they had another job of cleaning gutters they would not do that for gay men and transgenders.

 

[Jarhyn]

^^^ Jesus, Oleg. Are you being serious or just fucking with us???

Well, I cannot not see that men are telling women how to be women; that men are telling women that they are better women than them; that men are instructing women on what women's boundaries should be. It absolutely deserves mockery.

By using a fake satire news site?

You've never read the Onion?

The problem is, you can't provide evidence that's what's actually happening using a fake news site.

You were asked for references to claims you made, and your response was referencing a literal open lie.