Split Gendered spaces, split from Drag Shows

[Loren Pechtel]

This is admittedly a tangent, but I think that there is enough overlap to make it worthwhile.



What is wrong with people? This is an artist who needs to have some sympatico with what they draw. If they are not interested other artists can do a good job with gay male and transgender art commissions.

I really doubt that it they had another job of cleaning gutters they would not do that for gay men and transgenders.

This is an artist. I have no problem with creative people setting limits on what sort of content they are willing to create.

 

[Oleg]

What is wrong with people? This is an artist who needs to have some sympatico with what they draw. If they are not interested other artists can do a good job with gay male and transgender art commissions.

The Ex-Men don’t take too kindly when they’re reminded that they’re men.

 

[Jarhyn]

Finding an idiot with a hot take on Twitter is easy.

Before going to bed, people need to be told that it's polite to offer information on what they have.

It's like having a condom or dam in your wallet or purse: there are just some things you talk about before actually going to the room to take your clothes off.

If someone freaks out over it, breaks it off while insulting the person who has a penis, and cursing them, reacts as if a betrayal happened, them a betrayal did happen, caused by the person freaking out over a penis at the disclosure stage. A discrete disappointed statement about the situation while exiting it is the acceptable reaction.

If someone is an idiot and plays on being a "trap" of any kind, this is something else education can prevent.

It's reasonable to point out that the behavior of freaking out and hurting or outing a trans person when they reveal facts about their genitals while preparing to reveal them for sexual purposes, is often a concern.

There's a good reason the story of the person who goes to the bar and hides their genitals while taking it in the backdoor from a group of folks is a common tale told to keep young trans folks from doing that, because it's dumb way to die and it was is way too common.

But of course it will happen MORE not LESS if the LGBT community vanishes and fails to discuss in chaste ways with the younger generations how to not end up dead in a gutter.

One of those ways is, well, being functionally indistinguishable, growing up, having a single puberty, being part of only one desired social group, and participating in life with a community of folks who don't judge them on the basis that they can't have kids.

Of course they have a hard time asking that when they never meet anyone adjacent to their interests who can answer questions openly that will prevent stupid 17 and 18 year olds from getting murdered by a gang.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What is wrong with people? This is an artist who needs to have some sympatico with what they draw. If they are not interested other artists can do a good job with gay male and transgender art commissions.

The Ex-Men don’t take too kindly when they’re reminded that they’re men.

Is she a troll or what?

This is not transphobia, but a violent reaction is not ok, either. It's still totally out of line, though--it should have been discussed early on.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Even Texas law enforcement knows the bathroom issue is just a waste of time:

Law enforcement comes out against Texas "bathroom bill"

In a news conference Tuesday, big-city police chiefs called on lawmakers to reject the “bathroom bill,” saying the measure is discriminatory and does not keep the public safe.

www.texastribune.org

"I asked my department to go through the record. What we found is this: There were no known incidents of bathroom assaults performed by men posing as transgender women," San Antonio Police Chief William McManus said Tuesday. "I am a believer that if you propose a bill to address a criminal justice concern, it is important to determine if there is an actual problem you are trying to solve."

 

[Oleg]

What is wrong with people? This is an artist who needs to have some sympatico with what they draw. If they are not interested other artists can do a good job with gay male and transgender art commissions.

The Ex-Men don’t take too kindly when they’re reminded that they’re men.

Is she a troll or what?

This is not transphobia, but a violent reaction is not ok, either. It's still totally out of line, though--it should have been discussed early on.

If you truly believe that a trans-identifed man is a woman, then there's no reason to reject sexual relations with them if you're a lesbian or hetrosexual male but for "transphobia."

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Is she a troll or what?

This is not transphobia, but a violent reaction is not ok, either. It's still totally out of line, though--it should have been discussed early on.

If you truly believe that a trans-identifed man is a woman, then there's no reason to reject sexual relations with them if you're a lesbian or hetrosexual male but for "transphobia."

Most of us expect the standard genitalia on bedmates. If it were not specifically excluded from the definition most people would be defined as having a fetish for the expected bits.

 

[Jarhyn]

Is she a troll or what?

This is not transphobia, but a violent reaction is not ok, either. It's still totally out of line, though--it should have been discussed early on.

If you truly believe that a trans-identifed man is a woman, then there's no reason to reject sexual relations with them if you're a lesbian or hetrosexual male but for "transphobia."

Most of us expect the standard genitalia on bedmates. If it were not specifically excluded from the definition most people would be defined as having a fetish for the expected bits.

Then there are folks where it's "I've got a big complicated structure of absurd and seemingly arbitrary but unchosen things that just... When they go together, I'm into it and when they don't, I'm not." And the bits aren't really a part of that.

That's a lot of people too. I think a lot of people get hung up on thinking about the bits, distracted by them, but in the end for me it's having someone I can enjoy... Something... With. Not even sex really.

I think if there was less of telling people what they were supposed to expect, and just telling them what they might find and letting them make their decisions about whether to expect it or not (and pointed out that people who declare some schema of expectation universally  correct are assholes), then we would all be much happier with who we find ourselves fucking.

 

[Toni]

Is she a troll or what?

This is not transphobia, but a violent reaction is not ok, either. It's still totally out of line, though--it should have been discussed early on.

If you truly believe that a trans-identifed man is a woman, then there's no reason to reject sexual relations with them if you're a lesbian or hetrosexual male but for "transphobia."

Most of us expect the standard genitalia on bedmates. If it were not specifically excluded from the definition most people would be defined as having a fetish for the expected bits.

Then there are folks where it's "I've got a big complicated structure of absurd and seemingly arbitrary but unchosen things that just... When they go together, I'm into it and when they don't, I'm not." And the bits aren't really a part of that.

That's a lot of people too. I think a lot of people get hung up on thinking about the bits, distracted by them, but in the end for me it's having someone I can enjoy... Something... With. Not even sex really.

I think if there was less of telling people what they were supposed to expect, and just telling them what they might find and letting them make their decisions about whether to expect it or not (and pointed out that people who declare some schema of expectation universally  correct are assholes), then we would all be much happier with who we find ourselves fucking.

Different strokes, of course. Some people would be thrilled to find an erect penis. Some people would be upset by a penis, flaccid or erect. Some people would be turned on ( or off) by a vagina. Some people are very flexible. A whole lot of people really want some kind of connection aside from whether they enjoy the genitalia of their prospective partner. A lot depends on just how we are wired. Some, maybe on how we grew.

 

[Jarhyn]

Is she a troll or what?

This is not transphobia, but a violent reaction is not ok, either. It's still totally out of line, though--it should have been discussed early on.

If you truly believe that a trans-identifed man is a woman, then there's no reason to reject sexual relations with them if you're a lesbian or hetrosexual male but for "transphobia."

Most of us expect the standard genitalia on bedmates. If it were not specifically excluded from the definition most people would be defined as having a fetish for the expected bits.

Then there are folks where it's "I've got a big complicated structure of absurd and seemingly arbitrary but unchosen things that just... When they go together, I'm into it and when they don't, I'm not." And the bits aren't really a part of that.

That's a lot of people too. I think a lot of people get hung up on thinking about the bits, distracted by them, but in the end for me it's having someone I can enjoy... Something... With. Not even sex really.

I think if there was less of telling people what they were supposed to expect, and just telling them what they might find and letting them make their decisions about whether to expect it or not (and pointed out that people who declare some schema of expectation universally  correct are assholes), then we would all be much happier with who we find ourselves fucking.

Different strokes, of course. Some people would be thrilled to find an erect penis. Some people would be upset by a penis, flaccid or erect. Some people would be turned on ( or off) by a vagina. Some people are very flexible. A whole lot of people really want some kind of connection aside from whether they enjoy the genitalia of their prospective partner. A lot depends on just how we are wired. Some, maybe on how we grew.

And that is the most succinctly true statement that informs almost all of what needs to be discussed before people go up to a room.

In the ideal exchange it is "I expect to find ___ but would not object to ___", (or even just (would not object to ___) then the other party either responds with the same statement, or sex is aborted. The first party responds then after the gambit is made responds with ,"Oh, I can work with that, how about you?", Or sex is aborted.

Different trees apply to different scenarios. From there some people want a surprise, and if they don't, they have to ask before festivities start or rooms visited.

That's the extent of that that needs to be said, and it should probably be said for everyone.

My thought is that this informa a protocol where it's possible to exchange minimal information about what we have while still successfully avoiding unwanted encounters of the third leg kind.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Most of us expect the standard genitalia on bedmates. If it were not specifically excluded from the definition most people would be defined as having a fetish for the expected bits.

Then there are folks where it's "I've got a big complicated structure of absurd and seemingly arbitrary but unchosen things that just... When they go together, I'm into it and when they don't, I'm not." And the bits aren't really a part of that.

That's a lot of people too. I think a lot of people get hung up on thinking about the bits, distracted by them, but in the end for me it's having someone I can enjoy... Something... With. Not even sex really.

I think if there was less of telling people what they were supposed to expect, and just telling them what they might find and letting them make their decisions about whether to expect it or not (and pointed out that people who declare some schema of expectation universally  correct are assholes), then we would all be much happier with who we find ourselves fucking.

Those who don't care won't see the reason most of us do care.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In the ideal exchange it is "I expect to find ___ but would not object to ___", (or even just (would not object to ___) then the other party either responds with the same statement, or sex is aborted. The first party responds then after the gambit is made responds with ,"Oh, I can work with that, how about you?", Or sex is aborted.

Fine, except I think that's something that should be disclosed early on.

 

[Jarhyn]

In the ideal exchange it is "I expect to find ___ but would not object to ___", (or even just (would not object to ___) then the other party either responds with the same statement, or sex is aborted. The first party responds then after the gambit is made responds with ,"Oh, I can work with that, how about you?", Or sex is aborted.

Fine, except I think that's something that should be disclosed early on.

Yeah, it's definitely only in a prelude to sex, after direct personal interest is shared.

 

[Bomb#20]

Most of us expect the standard genitalia on bedmates. If it were not specifically excluded from the definition most people would be defined as having a fetish for the expected bits.

Channeling the rabbi who told me "cult" means "a religion we don't like", it seems that "fetish" means "a sexual preference we don't like."

 

[bilby]

Most of us expect the standard genitalia on bedmates. If it were not specifically excluded from the definition most people would be defined as having a fetish for the expected bits.

Channeling the rabbi who told me "cult" means "a religion we don't like", it seems that "fetish" means "a sexual preference we don't like."

Surely that would be "perversion"? Lots of people I know are very happy to describe as a "fetish" sexual preferences that they like very much indeed.

 

[Jarhyn]

Most of us expect the standard genitalia on bedmates. If it were not specifically excluded from the definition most people would be defined as having a fetish for the expected bits.

Channeling the rabbi who told me "cult" means "a religion we don't like", it seems that "fetish" means "a sexual preference we don't like."

Surely that would be "perversion"? Lots of people I know are very happy to describe as a "fetish" sexual preferences that they like very much indeed.

It goes back to that same general mindset that creates the problem:

Some view anything that is not immediately "boring missionary sex in a bed with a penis in a vagina" as a sign someone is broken and filthy and wrong.

Whenever you say "gay" to them or "fetish" it's automatically perverse because it's not the holy of holies: sex to make a baby.

I'm not sure it's even a conscious thought process, either. It's so baked into a standard religious upbringing that it might just be an "unexplainable feeling" by the time they get to adulthood.

You can usually tell when someone is infected with this disease using conversations about Fetish (academic ones even) as a canary. There's still not much you can "do" about it. Kinkshaming idiots are not going to get any better until they discover their own kinks, if they ever do.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In the ideal exchange it is "I expect to find ___ but would not object to ___", (or even just (would not object to ___) then the other party either responds with the same statement, or sex is aborted. The first party responds then after the gambit is made responds with ,"Oh, I can work with that, how about you?", Or sex is aborted.

Fine, except I think that's something that should be disclosed early on.

Yeah, it's definitely only in a prelude to sex, after direct personal interest is shared.

If you're in a dating situation sexual interest is basically inherent. I believe dealbreakers should be addressed early on.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Most of us expect the standard genitalia on bedmates. If it were not specifically excluded from the definition most people would be defined as having a fetish for the expected bits.

Channeling the rabbi who told me "cult" means "a religion we don't like", it seems that "fetish" means "a sexual preference we don't like."

No.

"Fetish" is something required for sexual response. "Kink" is something you want but which is not required for sexual response. Neither has any inherent good/bad connotation, but people generally assign a negative connotation to it.

 

[Jarhyn]

In the ideal exchange it is "I expect to find ___ but would not object to ___", (or even just (would not object to ___) then the other party either responds with the same statement, or sex is aborted. The first party responds then after the gambit is made responds with ,"Oh, I can work with that, how about you?", Or sex is aborted.

Fine, except I think that's something that should be disclosed early on.

Yeah, it's definitely only in a prelude to sex, after direct personal interest is shared.

If you're in a dating situation sexual interest is basically inherent. I believe dealbreakers should be addressed early on.

Around the second or third date, if dating. Around the third drink if not.

 

[southernhybrid]

Maybe if some of you trans deniers would do some reading, you might realize that there is some research being done that provided biological support for transgenderism. Yes. That's right. It was originally done on cadavers of trans people. I'm sure you smart people realize that male and female brains have different amounts of white and gray brain matter. And, there is a part of the brain that determines gender. There has also been some early research using MRIs, CT scans and probably some other neurological tests that I've forgotten about, that shows that one can be born with a brain that doesn't match their sexual body parts. Yes. Of course, more research should and will be done, as scientists usually don't like to. make claims about things until they've repeatedly found the same results. But, this is something I find exciting and hopefully, it will help more people understand why some people identify as a different gender than their body parts. There has even been a few instances where the brain has a mixed gender identity. Perhaps that would explain nonbinary gender ID. These minority genders have been around throughout civilization, so why are we acting as if this is something new. It's just more out in the open in recent years and I've learned a lot by doing my own DD.

Based on my reading, I"m learning more about why it's so important to help young children who identify as trans at a very early age to cope and get help with transitioning in a safe way. Nobody. That's right. Nobody who gives trans care to children is going to do surgery to a minor. But, hormone therapy is reversible, so in those very rare instances where a young person thought they were trans but instead they were gay or simply confused etc., no permanent change will be done. I've also read that when someone changes their minds about being trans, it's usually due to pressure from family and community. It's sad to think what some of these folks must endure and it's understandable why the suicide rate is so high.

There is a clinic in Atlanta that has been very successful in helping trans children, but due to the law that's about to be passed, it will be much more difficult for children who identify as trans to get adequate care. The only positive in this law is that it allows those who are already in the process of transitioning hormonally to continue their treatments and if I'm not mistaken, those who identify as trans at a very young age, will be permitted to get medical help. I might have misread that part, so don't take my word for that.

I don't understand the hatred towards trans folks, but considering that the US is still very influenced by Christianity and hatred towards minorities, I guess that's the reason why so many people refuse to even try to understand people who are different from themselves.

Sure, Cis women may have some resentment and we may feel uncomfortable being around women who still have a penis. Social change comes more slowly, so I think the will change over time. To be honest, I prefer those single room restrooms because I really like my privacy when I have to urinate. I confess that I don't even like having other women around when I use the restroom. That's just me. I've noticed that more restrooms in my area have single room rest rooms available, so that might be the easiest solution to make all genders feel comfortable. having privacy using public restrooms, since US culture is a bit different compared to Europe etc. But, I digress.

Do your own DD with an open mind. Look up the scientific research being done to help us understand transgender or nonbinary gender IDs. Accept that some people are a little bit different and stop trying to dehumanize them. I was going to start a thread in the science forum about this but I became very busy and got distracted, so I'm just putting a little info here because I hate seeing so much hatred and misunderstandings related to minorities of any variety.