George Floyd murderer's trial

[Oleg]

George Floyd's family is suing Kanye West for $250,000 for repeatedly saying Floyd died from fentanyl.

At the obvious risk of re-opening up this can of worms, it's interesing that the county medical examiner did not dismiss the fentanyl as a cause of death. He even wrote that the level of fentanyl in Floyd was "fatal under normal circumstances." The suit against Ye is probably going nowhere. https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/ExhibitMtD08282020.pdf

He was pretty mobile and awake for someone supposedly on a lethal dose.

It is factually true that his blood fentanyl was at a level often seen with ODs. Would that have ended him if not for trying to pass a fake $20? I dunno. But it's not defamation to point out something that is factually true and draw your own opinion.

 

[Gospel]

OJ definitely did it. I don't think there is anyone standing in this imaginary room right now that doubts it. We all just looking at you like, "what's he sippin?".

The point is you are free to examine the evidence yourself and make that conclusion. You're free speech does not stop because a jury came to a different verdict. Same with Ye. Otherwise, there's a lot of folks on this forum gonna be sued for denying that Rittenhouse acted in self-defense.

Wow, from OJ to Rittenhouse. What's next? A debate on whether Spook was a better linguist than pool player? I believe OJ did it, Rittenhouse had a solid self defense case and Chauvin murdered Floyd. Anything else?

 

[Oleg]

When someone dies because of a compounding condition, such as (drugs) and (being attacked and strangled/choked), one normally still looks at which actions whoever might have taken to prevent the outcome.

It is uncertain whether being choked for that long would kill someone without drugs.

It is fairly certain that whatever quantity of drugs Floyd was on wasn't actually going to kill him.

We ought not let someone off the hook for running over a dying man just because "he was dying anyway".

You may be right that Floyd was so drugged up that any push would send him over. (The autopsy observed that he had edema in his lungs likely from the fentanyl.) But the issue that rescurected this thread is the suit against Ye for noting Floyd's fatally high fentanyl level.

Yes, but Mr. West's statement is factually incorrect. In other words, it is a lie.

So OJ didn't do it?

Again. please tell us what you are drinking so we can avoid it.

Is it defamation to say OJ did it. This isn't hard, man.

No it isn't. There is a civil verdict that indicates he did it to the point that it is acceptable to state his culpability in civil tort.

So it was defamation to make the allegations in the civil suit?

I'll put "lawsuits" in the list of "things Oleg doesn't understand".

The lawsuit was in fact a claim, which was in fact open to countersuit, with the question before the court whether the suit was defamatory.

No defamation happened, as the civil suit was concluded as it was, showing that the initial claim was not defamatory, and was in fact supported to the tune of a fuckton of civil damages.

I'd point out that procedually, if OJ were to do a counter-suit for defamination, it'd have to be when he was sued. Otherwise, it's waived.

 

[ZiprHead]

We all saw what the girl from the Safeway recorded on her phone. The bystanders were pleading with the cop to let him up. Even one of the officers questioned Floyd's killer while he was doing so.

 

[Oleg]

OJ definitely did it. I don't think there is anyone standing in this imaginary room right now that doubts it. We all just looking at you like, "what's he sippin?".

The point is you are free to examine the evidence yourself and make that conclusion. You're free speech does not stop because a jury came to a different verdict. Same with Ye. Otherwise, there's a lot of folks on this forum gonna be sued for denying that Rittenhouse acted in self-defense.

Wow, from OJ to Rittenhouse. What's next? A debate on whether Spook was a better linguist than pool player? I believe OJ did it, Rittenhouse had a solid self defense case and Chauvin murdered Floyd. Anything else?

Oh, come on. A jury verdict does not constrain your right to discuss and question. Simple, as.

 

[Oleg]

We all saw what the girl from the Safeway recorded on her phone. The bystanders were pleading with the cop to let him up. Even one of the officers questioned Floyd's killer while he was doing so.

And we also saw that he was saying "I can't breath" when they were trying to seat him in the cop car. Point is, the jury verdict does not muzzle free debate.

 

[Jarhyn]

We all saw what the girl from the Safeway recorded on her phone. The bystanders were pleading with the cop to let him up. Even one of the officers questioned Floyd's killer while he was doing so.

And we also saw that he was saying "I can't breath" when they were trying to seat him in the cop car. Point is, the jury verdict does not muzzle free debate.

But it does unequivocally state that Chauvin murdered Floyd, to the extent of defamation upon the claim that fentanyl killed him instead.

It's pretty open and shut in that there is no legal ground to state fentanyl killed him when legally, Chauvin killed him

 

[Gospel]

OJ definitely did it. I don't think there is anyone standing in this imaginary room right now that doubts it. We all just looking at you like, "what's he sippin?".

The point is you are free to examine the evidence yourself and make that conclusion. You're free speech does not stop because a jury came to a different verdict. Same with Ye. Otherwise, there's a lot of folks on this forum gonna be sued for denying that Rittenhouse acted in self-defense.

Wow, from OJ to Rittenhouse. What's next? A debate on whether Spook was a better linguist than pool player? I believe OJ did it, Rittenhouse had a solid self defense case and Chauvin murdered Floyd. Anything else?

Oh, come on. A jury verdict does not constrain your right to discuss and question. Simple, as.

I didn't say they did. We're on a discussion board. You posted something because you seem to want to discuss that something, and I chose to engage in that discussion when offering a difference of opinion. My opinion just so happens to agree with the verdict in the Floyd case.

 

[Jarhyn]

Hey Oleg, where did you buy your standards? It looks like you got BOGO.

Then, maybe you'll find yourself on the "fucking around and finding out" side of "there's nothing more expensive than cheap tools."

 

[atrib]

When someone dies because of a compounding condition, such as (drugs) and (being attacked and strangled/choked), one normally still looks at which actions whoever might have taken to prevent the outcome.

It is uncertain whether being choked for that long would kill someone without drugs.

It is fairly certain that whatever quantity of drugs Floyd was on wasn't actually going to kill him.

We ought not let someone off the hook for running over a dying man just because "he was dying anyway".

You may be right that Floyd was so drugged up that any push would send him over. (The autopsy observed that he had edema in his lungs likely from the fentanyl.) But the issue that rescurected this thread is the suit against Ye for noting Floyd's fatally high fentanyl level.

This is such an incredibly stupid thing to say. Its like saying that the deceased victim of a gunshot wound to the chest had clogged coronary arteries, while ignoring the 2-inch hole in his heart that had been caused by the passage of a 9mm hollow point projectile through it.

Here are some facts of the case as revealed through testimony at Chauvin's murder trial:

1. There is video evidence and testimony that Mr Floyd was walking about and interacting normally with people just prior to his arrest. He was apparently NOT undergoing any sort of a life-threatening medical crisis.
2. The police committed felony assault on Mr Floyd. He was restrained and nonviolent, but the police decided to take him out of the police vehicle and lay him on the ground so they could inflict pain on him. It is doubtful that the police had even conducted an investigation into his alleged crime (passing a counterfeit bill) sufficient to establish probable cause for the arrest, and the seizure may not even have been legal.
3. The assault by the police rendered Mr Floyd unable to breathe for about 9 minutes. We have video where Mr Floyd repeatedly tells his assailants that he could not breathe, and the testimony of medical experts and experts in the use of force telling us the same thing.
4. We know Mr Floyd stopped breathing somewhere along the 9 minute assault. We know that one of the officers involved in the assault commented that Mr Floyd had stopped breathing, and suggested to the others that they turn Mr Floyd on his side to allow him to be resuscitated. We know that this suggestion was ignored for at least 3 minutes, 3 minutes where the police could have tried to render first aid and save Mr Floyd's life. We know that the assault on Mr Floyd continued until a paramedic reached the scene and asked Chauvin to stop assaulting Mr Floyd so he could render aid.
5. The medical experts testified that Mr Floyd's death was likely caused by the illegal assault and asphyxiation for about 9 minutes.

But one doesn't really need to be an expert forensic pathologist to understand how and why Mr Floyd died, one only has to watch the video footage recorded by bystanders and the officers' body cameras. The fentanyl may have been a contributing factor, but it certainly wasn't the reason why Mr Floyd did not survive the assault. Death is an easily predicted outcome of asphyxiating someone for 9 minutes. The whole world watched these videos, of a helpless black man being killed on the street like an animal, and millions came out to protest. But some people still try to find excuses to rationalize this criminal behavior by the police and mitigate the heinousness of their actions. Fucking loathsome.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

George Floyd's family is suing Kanye West for $250,000 for repeatedly saying Floyd died from fentanyl.

At the obvious risk of re-opening up this can of worms, it's interesing that the county medical examiner did not dismiss the fentanyl as a cause of death. He even wrote that the level of fentanyl in Floyd was "fatal under normal circumstances." The suit against Ye is probably going nowhere. https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/ExhibitMtD08282020.pdf

That's the nature of opioids--they don't have a specific lethal dose. What's deadly for the opioid-naive can leave a heavy user quite functional. Doctors know this and have to calibrate doses based on the patient. All too often addicts aren't aware of this--they go to jail for something, get out, take their normal hit and die of it.

We had a police shooting locally where the guy had a "lethal" level of opioids in his system. It left him loopy enough that the store had called the cops on him and left him loopy enough that he finally tried to hand his gun to the cops barrel-first. (In hindsight it was clear he wasn't trying to shoot them--the gun was still holstered, the trigger inaccessible.) Did he overdose or did he die of being shot?

 

[atrib]

We all saw what the girl from the Safeway recorded on her phone. The bystanders were pleading with the cop to let him up. Even one of the officers questioned Floyd's killer while he was doing so.

And we also saw that he was saying "I can't breath" when they were trying to seat him in the cop car. Point is, the jury verdict does not muzzle free debate.

And that very same freedom allows others to point out that you are likely acting from a position of prejudice, ignoring facts, and attempting to justify a heinous crime simply because you are prejudiced against the victim based on the color of his skin, and possibly by his previous criminal history and his drug use.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Medical examiners write everything down with regards to possible cause of death. It was one of the things right wingers kept on pearl clutching over with regards to Covid deaths. The phrase "level of fentanyl in Floyd was fatal under normal circumstances" can easily be disputed in court. Any medical examiner can poke holes in that statement.

And note how it's hedged--the ME knows it's not fatal for heavy users.

 

[Jarhyn]

When someone dies because of a compounding condition, such as (drugs) and (being attacked and strangled/choked), one normally still looks at which actions whoever might have taken to prevent the outcome.

It is uncertain whether being choked for that long would kill someone without drugs.

It is fairly certain that whatever quantity of drugs Floyd was on wasn't actually going to kill him.

We ought not let someone off the hook for running over a dying man just because "he was dying anyway".

You may be right that Floyd was so drugged up that any push would send him over. (The autopsy observed that he had edema in his lungs likely from the fentanyl.) But the issue that rescurected this thread is the suit against Ye for noting Floyd's fatally high fentanyl level.

This is such an incredibly stupid thing to say. Its like saying that the deceased victim of a gunshot wound to the chest had clogged coronary arteries, while ignoring the 2-inch hole in his heart that had been caused by the passage of a 9mm hollow point projectile through it.

Here are some facts of the case as revealed through testimony at Chauvin's murder trial:

1. There is video evidence and testimony that Mr Floyd was walking about and interacting normally with people just prior to his arrest. He was apparently NOT undergoing any sort of a life-threatening medical crisis.
2. The police committed felony assault on Mr Floyd. He was restrained and nonviolent, but the police decided to take him out of the police vehicle and lay him on the ground so they could inflict pain on him. It is doubtful that the police had even conducted an investigation into his alleged crime (passing a counterfeit bill) sufficient to establish probable cause for the arrest, and the seizure may not even have been legal.
3. The assault by the police rendered Mr Floyd unable to breathe for about 9 minutes. We have video where Mr Floyd repeatedly tells his assailants that he could not breathe, and the testimony of medical experts and experts in the use of force telling us the same thing.
4. We know Mr Floyd stopped breathing somewhere along the 9 minute assault. We know that one of the officers involved in the assault commented that Mr Floyd had stopped breathing, and suggested to the others that they turn Mr Floyd on his side to allow him to be resuscitated. We know that this suggestion was ignored for at least 3 minutes, 3 minutes where the police could have tried to render first aid and save Mr Floyd's life. We know that the assault on Mr Floyd continued until a paramedic reached the scene and asked Chauvin to stop assaulting Mr Floyd so he could render aid.
5. The medical experts testified that Mr Floyd's death was likely caused by the illegal assault and asphyxiation for about 9 minutes.

But one doesn't really need to be an expert forensic pathologist to understand how and why Mr Floyd died, one only has to watch the video footage recorded by bystanders and the officers' body cameras. The fentanyl may have been a contributing factor, but it certainly wasn't the reason why Mr Floyd did not survive the assault. Death is an easily predicted outcome of asphyxiating someone for 9 minutes. The whole world watched these videos, of a helpless black man being killed on the street like an animal, and millions came out to protest. But some people still try to find excuses to rationalize this criminal behavior by the police and mitigate the heinousness of their actions. Fucking loathsome.

Like, I've been wrong before. Embarrassingly wrong. I admitted that I was embarrassingly wrong, when I was embarrassingly wrong.

Why is it so pathologically hard for some people to admit they were embarrassingly wrong?

I can only assume it is because their ego is like a single, fragile snowflake, ready to shatter should they subject it to such.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Medical examiners write everything down with regards to possible cause of death. It was one of the things right wingers kept on pearl clutching over with regards to Covid deaths. The phrase "level of fentanyl in Floyd was fatal under normal circumstances" can easily be disputed in court. Any medical examiner can poke holes in that statement.

Here the medical examiner specially excluded physical injury. Then the mob came.

Because he didn't die of physical injury. Asphyxia isn't an injury.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He was pretty mobile and awake for someone supposedly on a lethal dose.

Exactly. If he died of fentanyl it was administered while in police custody.

 

[atrib]

I can only assume it is because their ego is like a single, fragile snowflake, ready to shatter should they subject it to such.

I can't read the poster's mind. Based on his posting history, I would suspect that his posts are influenced by prejudice, a worship of authority, a fragile ego that prevents him from acknowleding facts that are glaringly obvious to others, and a bias against people who hold differing opinions. That, and a possible lack of critical thinking skills or the ability to read and understand the written word. The testimony from the trial is available to the public for free, and he seems to be aware of some parts of it, but he ignores the other parts that contradict his opinions.

 

[Jarhyn]

I can only assume it is because their ego is like a single, fragile snowflake, ready to shatter should they subject it to such.

I can't read the poster's mind. Based on his posting history, I would suspect that his posts are influenced by prejudice, a worship of authority, a fragile ego that prevents him from acknowleding facts that are glaringly obvious to others, and a bias against people who hold differing opinions. That, and a possible lack of critical thinking skills or the ability to read and understand the written word. The testimony from the trial is available to the public for free, and he seems to be aware of some parts of it, but he ignores the other parts that contradict his opinions.

I prefer the snowflake metaphor.

Regardless of whether the metaphor is applicable to Oleg, it's quite apt for the right in general

 

[blastula]

This lawsuit is stupid, it should fail.

 

[blastula]