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Good guy with a gun actually shows up

steve_bank said:
If you knew most around you were armed would yiu pull a gun? Some you of course.

If you are a criminal would you enter a house if you knew people in the neighborhood would be in the streets armed if they heard an alarm or call for help?

Under the guise of computational rights gangs took hold and thrive in western Washington. A portion of the gun violence is between gangs. In a recent report there was inner rivalry in Crips in Tacoma leading to a gun fight that hit bystanders.

It is an old story. Police know all the gang members but can do nothing. From a show I watched on LAPD history in the 60s if a known organized crime member was known to be on the way to LA he might be met at the airport with a return ticket.

Are we too liberal to be able to maintain order?

As the BLM demonstrations devolved into leaderless violent destructive mobs our mayor kept saying people have a right to protest. At what point does colective security over ride individual rights?
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Widespread gun possession in the poorer parts of the inner city is why the gun murder rtes are so low.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
steve_bank said:
If you knew most around you were armed would yiu pull a gun? Some you of course.

If you are a criminal would you enter a house if you knew people in the neighborhood would be in the streets armed if they heard an alarm or call for help?

Under the guise of computational rights gangs took hold and thrive in western Washington. A portion of the gun violence is between gangs. In a recent report there was inner rivalry in Crips in Tacoma leading to a gun fight that hit bystanders.

It is an old story. Police know all the gang members but can do nothing. From a show I watched on LAPD history in the 60s if a known organized crime member was known to be on the way to LA he might be met at the airport with a return ticket.

Are we too liberal to be able to maintain order?

As the BLM demonstrations devolved into leaderless violent destructive mobs our mayor kept saying people have a right to protest. At what point does colective security over ride individual rights?
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Widespread gun possession in the poorer parts of the inner city is why the gun murder rtes are so low.
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You dropped this:
/s
 
Elixir said:
I bet he used a long gun too.
Oops no… a pistol.
🙄
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Neither one of them had a long gun. Which just shows that handguns are quite effective firearms.
I am all for stronger gun laws. What I am against is this irrational obsession with banning so-called "assault weapons".
 
Derec said:
handguns are quite effective firearms
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So, no need for assault high capacity, high velocity, semi automatic long barreled weapons designed to kill the maximum number of humans in minimal time, right?
Glad you agree.
 
Derec said:
Elixir said:
I bet he used a long gun too.
Oops no… a pistol.
🙄
Click to expand...
Neither one of them had a long gun. Which just shows that handguns are quite effective firearms.
I am all for stronger gun laws. What I am against is this irrational obsession with banning so-called "assault weapons".
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As someone who has almost three decades of experience owning and operating handguns and rifles, I can tell you that AR style rifles are far more effective at killing large numbers of people than pretty much any handgun I have used. Handguns can be just as effective as a long gun in the hands of an experienced shooter, but many of the school shooters and other assorted mass murderers were not experienced operators. The AR style rifles are ergonomic and easy to use (to where even granny could wield one effectively with little or no training), have well damped recoil, and fire projectiles at more than twice the muzzle velocity that a 45acp 1911 pistol with a 5-inch barrel can achieve, rounds that cannot be stopped by conventional body armor and ballisitic shields used by US law enforcement. They are called assault rifles because military personnel all over the world use similar weapons (albeit sometimes with full-auto or burst firing capability) to fight wars. Such guns have one purpose and one purpose only - to make it easy to kill large numbers of people, and don't belong in the hands of civilians. One reason why the police at Uvalde were so hesitant to confront the gunman and end the incident is because they knew the shooter was using an AR-15 style gun which could penetrate their body armor and shields. They would likely have been much more enthusiastic about confronting the shooter if he had been armed with a handgun.
 
www.reformaustin.org

Road Rage Blinds Texans, Killings Increase - Reform Austin

It’s rush hour, you're stuck in traffic and just trying to get home. Suddenly, you get cut off, and have an altercation with a neighboring car, but instead of it staying as an angry exchange of words, it escalates. A gun is pulled out and you're shot.
www.reformaustin.org www.reformaustin.org
It’s rush hour, you’re stuck in traffic and just trying to get home. Suddenly, you get cut off, and have an altercation with a neighboring car, but instead of it staying as an angry exchange of words, it escalates. A gun is pulled out and you’re shot.

All because you cut someone off in traffic.

From a 16-year-old teenager getting shot in the back of the head, to a seriously injured 9-year-old who was put into a medically induced coma, after also getting shot. All around the country, dozens of road rage killings have taken place in the last months.

However, in Texas, the amount of these pointless murders has risen to daunting numbers.

“In the past, people curse one another, throw up the finger and keep moving,” Mayor Sylvester Turner of Houston said in an interview. “Now instead of throwing up the finger, they’re pulling out the gun and shooting.”

According to the Dallas Police Department, last year 45 people were wounded and 11 killed in road rage events.

In Austin, last year the police recorded 160 episodes of drivers pointing or firing a gun; this year, there have been 15 road rage shootings, with three people struck, as reported by The New York Times.
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The whole "good guy with a gun" thing seems ludicrous to me.

I mean, let's say Alan is out at the shopping center and some person starts shooting. Alan takes his gun and opens fire on the shooter.

But Bill is there as well, hears the shots, and also decides to be a hero. He makes his way towards the shots, sees a guy with a gun, and shoots the guy. And now Alan is dead.

Then the cops turn up, come in expecting a shooter, they see Bill standing over two dead bodies, conclude that Bill is the shooter, and now Bill's dead as well.

That's the trouble - when there's an active shooter, the person who believes he is a good guy with a gun never stops to ask the other guy with a gun if he's the bad guy or just another good guy. Of course, he can't - if it's the bad guy, he's going to get shot. So he shoots first and asks questions later.

And that's not to mention the number of people who think they are good guys with guns, but aren't. Like THIS GUY.
 
Kylie said:
The whole "good guy with a gun" thing seems ludicrous to me.

I mean, let's say Alan is out at the shopping center and some person starts shooting. Alan takes his gun and opens fire on the shooter.

But Bill is there as well, hears the shots, and also decides to be a hero. He makes his way towards the shots, sees a guy with a gun, and shoots the guy. And now Alan is dead.

Then the cops turn up, come in expecting a shooter, they see Bill standing over two dead bodies, conclude that Bill is the shooter, and now Bill's dead as well.

That's the trouble - when there's an active shooter, the person who believes he is a good guy with a gun never stops to ask the other guy with a gun if he's the bad guy or just another good guy. Of course, he can't - if it's the bad guy, he's going to get shot. So he shoots first and asks questions later.

And that's not to mention the number of people who think they are good guys with guns, but aren't. Like THIS GUY.
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Welcome to the forum.

At least the jackass in your linked story did not pull trigger. But another story at the bottom of the page links to a story when a brother who tries and succeeds in murdering his sister's boyfriend also ends up killing her as well.

For every "positive" story of a good guy with a gun, there are many more stories of a bad guy or a moron with a gun in the USA.
 
laughing dog said:
Kylie said:
The whole "good guy with a gun" thing seems ludicrous to me.

I mean, let's say Alan is out at the shopping center and some person starts shooting. Alan takes his gun and opens fire on the shooter.

But Bill is there as well, hears the shots, and also decides to be a hero. He makes his way towards the shots, sees a guy with a gun, and shoots the guy. And now Alan is dead.

Then the cops turn up, come in expecting a shooter, they see Bill standing over two dead bodies, conclude that Bill is the shooter, and now Bill's dead as well.

That's the trouble - when there's an active shooter, the person who believes he is a good guy with a gun never stops to ask the other guy with a gun if he's the bad guy or just another good guy. Of course, he can't - if it's the bad guy, he's going to get shot. So he shoots first and asks questions later.

And that's not to mention the number of people who think they are good guys with guns, but aren't. Like THIS GUY.
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Welcome to the forum.

At least the jackass in your linked story did not pull trigger. But another story at the bottom of the page links to a story when a brother who tries and succeeds in murdering his sister's boyfriend also ends up killing her as well.

For every "positive" story of a good guy with a gun, there are many more stories of a bad guy or a moron with a gun in the USA.
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So, a good guy with a gun is generally only necessary against a bad guy with a gun.

This means that for (almost) every story of a good guy with a gun there is also the involvement of a bad guy with a gun, and there are as you say many bad guys with guns who just end up "getting away with" being bad.

Why are we willing to accept the ubiquity of such? Clearly it's more of a risk to have guns everywhere and available and in public: They don't solve many problems, and the "solutions" they enable are often the "solution" of "fuck you, do what I say, I've got a gun".
 
Derec said:
Loren Pechtel said:
In a sane place he would have been facing murder 1.
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Murder one is too harsh, and does not fit what he did. Maybe manslaughter one?

The robber who caused all this should be charged with felony murder though.
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He had no reasonable justification for firing that shot.

I've seen murder 1 from such a shot (although I never saw where the case ended up)--fired at a fleeing felon, the ricochet killed someone.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Deadly shooting at Nashville convenience store investigated as self-defense
Father shoots 2 16-year-old suspects accused of trying to rob family in NW Harris County
Neighbor fatally shoots 22-year-old accused of opening fire on mother in N. Harris Co., deputies say
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"...the test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, and not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with them" - Robert Peel

A well ordered society doesn't have many citizens or police shooting criminals, because it doesn't have many criminals, or much crime.

Creating a society that pushes people into a life of crime, and then responding with lethal force, is pure evil in every element. Each instance of a criminal being shot, is a scathing indictment of the failure of your society.
 
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