Great takedown of Christian arguments against homosexuality

[Underseer]

A guy who goes by the name Lord Presley posted this on Google Plus, and I just had to share. Since I'm not as familiar with the Old Testament, this is good argument fodder for me.

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your posts, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. Like, when someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that, Leviticus 18:22, clearly states it to be "an abomination"… end of debate.
I would like some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God’s Laws and how to properly follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44, states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In today's economy, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is on her "period of menstrual unseemliness" – Lev. 15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev. 1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it for me?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I DO NOT AGREE. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates, Lev. 19:19, by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev. 24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging. Your adoring fan, Lord Presley

 

[Bomb#20]

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

Hey, I'm no Biblical scholar, so I can't help with the rest of these tricky theological issues; but at least I can bring comfort to this troubled soul on this one point: footballs aren't really made of pigskin. They're rubber or cowhide. Play on with no fear of divine retribution!

 

[Keith&Co.]

Great takedown of Christian arguments against homosexuality

The first time i saw this, it was offered in response to biblical-based arguments against abortoin.
Basically, any attempt to offer The Books as a source of morals needs to account for this sort of thing.

 

[CJW]

there was a version of this on an episode of the West Wing where Bartlett chastised a Dr Laura type character. It think was already around before then, though.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I thought this originated as a parody letter to Dr. Laura (Schlesinger) of radio fame...but perhaps it's older than that. I find it depressing that some of the ultrareligious types, the ones who are obsessed to the point of becoming door knockers, don't know most of these Bible crudities. You can show them Lev. 27:28-9, which allows for human sacrifice to their love god, and it doesn't seem to register. One of my reading goals is to quantify the times Biblegod orders genocide, commits genocide, orders infanticide, and commits infanticide. I'd just like to have the number handy.

 

[Shadowy Man]

The books are for reference, not for use as source material. It's like when you think you already know a subject and you only need to go to the book to verify that the equation you're using is correct. You don't care what the other equations are and you don't want to learn anything from the book.

This is why I find any appeals to what somebody's holy scripture says as a way of determining why they act and think the way they do to be a weak argument. Most holy books are so convoluted, contrary and open to interpretation that almost anybody can use them to justify almost anything as long as they ignore the other parts or choose to interpret them differently.

 

[OLDMAN]

The New Testament replaces the old for the simple fact that God is on earth speaking directly to people. Some people think he doesn't address the issue of homosexuality, but I think he does in Mathew 22:36-40. Which commandment is greatest? The answer: Love your God and love one another. It covers everything. Explains why two people who are in love can't ever be wrong. Christ may not have been a god, but he certainly gave good advice....now if his followers would just follow it.

 

[credoconsolans]

I thought this originated as a parody letter to Dr. Laura (Schlesinger) of radio fame...but perhaps it's older than that. I find it depressing that some of the ultrareligious types, the ones who are obsessed to the point of becoming door knockers, don't know most of these Bible crudities. You can show them Lev. 27:28-9, which allows for human sacrifice to their love god, and it doesn't seem to register. One of my reading goals is to quantify the times Biblegod orders genocide, commits genocide, orders infanticide, and commits infanticide. I'd just like to have the number handy.

Yeah, this quote is at least 15 years old if not older.

 

[Underseer]

I thought this originated as a parody letter to Dr. Laura (Schlesinger) of radio fame...but perhaps it's older than that. I find it depressing that some of the ultrareligious types, the ones who are obsessed to the point of becoming door knockers, don't know most of these Bible crudities. You can show them Lev. 27:28-9, which allows for human sacrifice to their love god, and it doesn't seem to register. One of my reading goals is to quantify the times Biblegod orders genocide, commits genocide, orders infanticide, and commits infanticide. I'd just like to have the number handy.

Yeah, this quote is at least 15 years old if not older.

Ah, thanks. I did not realize it was a copy & paste.

 

[Underseer]

The New Testament replaces the old for the simple fact that God is on earth speaking directly to people. Some people think he doesn't address the issue of homosexuality, but I think he does in Mathew 22:36-40. Which commandment is greatest? The answer: Love your God and love one another. It covers everything. Explains why two people who are in love can't ever be wrong. Christ may not have been a god, but he certainly gave good advice....now if his followers would just follow it.

First of all, the New Testament does not replace the old Testament. That's just an excuse Christians use to cherry-pick the Old Testament any time they feel like it. Jesus said he was here to enforce the law, not replace it, and then there is also the "jot and tittle" quote from the New Testament.

Frankly, I have a hard time thinking of the New Testament as good advice. Jesus instructs slaves to obey their masters and be extra obedient if their owners are Christian, while also instructing followers to disown family members who are not Christian. It's not hard at all to find books on morality that give better moral advice than the New Testament.

 

[Juma]

The New Testament replaces the old for the simple fact that God is on earth speaking directly to people. Some people think he doesn't address the issue of homosexuality, but I think he does in Mathew 22:36-40. Which commandment is greatest? The answer: Love your God and love one another. It covers everything. Explains why two people who are in love can't ever be wrong. Christ may not have been a god, but he certainly gave good advice....now if his followers would just follow it.

First of all, the New Testament does not replace the old Testament. That's just an excuse Christians use to cherry-pick the Old Testament any time they feel like it. Jesus said he was here to enforce the law, not replace it, and then there is also the "jot and tittle" quote from the New Testament.

Frankly, I have a hard time thinking of the New Testament as good advice. Jesus instructs slaves to obey their masters and be extra obedient if their owners are Christian, while also instructing followers to disown family members who are not Christian. It's not hard at all to find books on morality that give better moral advice than the New Testament.

Eh. Testament means contract. New testament means that god makes a new contract with humans. Jesus does go agsinst the old law. (Working at sabbat etc)

 

[Underseer]

First of all, the New Testament does not replace the old Testament. That's just an excuse Christians use to cherry-pick the Old Testament any time they feel like it. Jesus said he was here to enforce the law, not replace it, and then there is also the "jot and tittle" quote from the New Testament.

Frankly, I have a hard time thinking of the New Testament as good advice. Jesus instructs slaves to obey their masters and be extra obedient if their owners are Christian, while also instructing followers to disown family members who are not Christian. It's not hard at all to find books on morality that give better moral advice than the New Testament.

Eh. Testament means contract. New testament means that god makes a new contract with humans. Jesus does go agsinst the old law. (Working at sabbat etc)

Mattew 5:18
http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-18.htm

Then Jesus is a liar.

 

[bilby]

Eh. Testament means contract. New testament means that god makes a new contract with humans. Jesus does go agsinst the old law. (Working at sabbat etc)

Mattew 5:18
http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-18.htm

Then Jesus is a liar.

Well that's C. S. Lewis's trilemma dealt with then.

I knew I shouldn't have put all my money on 'Lunatic'.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Eh. Testament means contract. New testament means that god makes a new contract with humans.

Now i just see Jesus in a dark black robe, and in a deep voice telling the apostles: "I am altering the deal. Pray that I don't alter it further."

 

[Underseer]

Eh. Testament means contract. New testament means that god makes a new contract with humans.

Now i just see Jesus in a dark black robe, and in a deep voice telling the apostles: "I am altering the deal. Pray that I don't alter it further."

Funny how he always seems to alter the deal in ways that are in line with the views of whatever believer is citing him.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Now i just see Jesus in a dark black robe, and in a deep voice telling the apostles: "I am altering the deal. Pray that I don't alter it further."

Funny how he always seems to alter the deal in ways that are in line with the views of whatever believer is citing him.

Yeah.
Religion would be a lot more useful if some of God's would-be prophets would suddenly grab their throats in mid-spiel, choking on a misinterpretation. "I find your misplaced faith in me disturbing."

 

[credoconsolans]

Now i just see Jesus in a dark black robe, and in a deep voice telling the apostles: "I am altering the deal. Pray that I don't alter it further."

Funny how he always seems to alter the deal in ways that are in line with the views of whatever believer is citing him.

Seems, if Jesus was real and really saying those things, he did so for his own benefit as well.

 

[Kharakov]

Eh. Testament means contract. New testament means that god makes a new contract with humans. Jesus does go agsinst the old law. (Working at sabbat etc)

Mattew 5:18
http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-18.htm

Then Jesus is a liar.

Or atheists still don't understand emergence..... even after they've been tricked into using it as an argument against God in order to edify their understanding of it.

- - - Updated - - -

Now i just see Jesus in a dark black robe, and in a deep voice telling the apostles: "I am altering the deal. Pray that I don't alter it further."

Funny how he always seems to alter the deal in ways that are in line with the views of whatever believer is citing him.

Almost like God tries to support everyone, which is quite the juggling act when you're dealing with assholes.

 

[Juma]

Eh. Testament means contract. New testament means that god makes a new contract with humans. Jesus does go agsinst the old law. (Working at sabbat etc)

Mattew 5:18
http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-18.htm

Then Jesus is a liar.

Where? Mattew 5:18 doesnt help you.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Mattew 5:18
http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-18.htm

Then Jesus is a liar.

Where? Mattew 5:18 doesnt help you.

Not that this is crucial, but:

17 “Don’t think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter† or one tiny pen stroke‡ shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. 19 Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Plus, how can you make a new contract with humans who do not know about the contract in the first place? (and who might not accept)
After all, the vast majority of humans at the time did not have any access to any info on any such contracts.

But one can just leave aside the issue of what Jesus changed, and point out that OT law was (allegedly) applicable before him.