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Henrietta Lacks’s family reaches settlement in extracted cell lawsuit

Cell growth research has been underway for over seven decades prior to Lack's passing. It's surprising that some believe the significance of these cells wasn't recognized in the 1950s. :rolleyes:
 
Cell growth research has been underway for over seven decades prior to Lack's passing. It's surprising that some believe the significance of these cells wasn't recognized in the 1950s. :rolleyes:
Who would that be?
Certainly not me. I wasn't aware of 7 decades worth, but it doesn't surprise me much.
Tom
 
Cell growth research has been underway for over seven decades prior to Lack's passing. It's surprising that some believe the significance of these cells wasn't recognized in the 1950s. :rolleyes:
Who would that be?
Certainly not me. I wasn't aware of 7 decades worth, but it doesn't surprise me much.
Tom
Yet, you wrote the researchers would have been discussed from using the cells if they had had to ask permission.
 
Yet, you wrote the researchers would have been discussed from using the cells if they had had to ask permission.
This sentence doesn't make sense.
"discussed"?

I don't believe researchers would have had reasons to expect consent to use a cancer sample from anyone in 1951.
Not Ms Lacks. Not a Kennedy. Not an Eisenhower.
Nobody.
It just wasn't part of medical research norms.
Things have changed since then. But we're talking about 1951.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm also sure that the wealthy white folks were treated very differently in nearly every way than a poor black woman. It was rather the pit of the Jim Crow era. But that's not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about some cancerous cells surgically removed from a patient.
Tom
 
Cell growth research has been underway for over seven decades prior to Lack's passing. It's surprising that some believe the significance of these cells wasn't recognized in the 1950s. :rolleyes:
Who would that be?
Certainly not me. I wasn't aware of 7 decades worth, but it doesn't surprise me much.
Tom

Oh, indeed what a mystery! Who could it possibly be?

- you are literally arguing that the very effort of having to ask permission to use the cells would have dissuaded them from asking for something they thought were valuable enough to use without asking.
In 1951, yeppers.
Nobody had any reason to think those cancerous cells were worth anything.

Give me a reason to believe differently.
Tom
 
Yet, you wrote the researchers would have been discussed from using the cells if they had had to ask permission.
This sentence doesn't make sense.
"discussed"?

I don't believe researchers would have had reasons to expect consent to use a cancer sample from anyone in 1951.
Not Ms Lacks. Not a Kennedy. Not an Eisenhower.
Nobody.
It just wasn't part of medical research norms.
Things have changed since then. But we're talking about 1951.
Tom
Spell check changed dissuaded to discussed.

You are contradicting what is in your post 97.
 
Yet, you wrote the researchers would have been discussed from using the cells if they had had to ask permission.
This sentence doesn't make sense.
"discussed"?

I don't believe researchers would have had reasons to expect consent to use a cancer sample from anyone in 1951.
Not Ms Lacks. Not a Kennedy. Not an Eisenhower.
Nobody.
It just wasn't part of medical research norms.
Things have changed since then. But we're talking about 1951.
Tom
If you had read the link to the Nature article —which you somehow seem to believe is unreliable because I posted the link, you would learn that there are many ethical issues that arose after the cell lines were developed and after medycal ethics regarding informed consent and patient privacy had become the norm as well as the law. Two of those issues include identifying the source of the HeLa cell lines by using Mrs. Lacks name and by publishing her entire genome, again, without permission from any member of the family and again, violating the privacy of this woman, which was not only not cool but against standard medical practice and ethics and actually against HIPPA laws and regulations.

Every person should be horrified at such egregious violations.
 
If you had bothered to read Toni’s response with careful consideration, you’d have seen the phrase “I believe that Mrs Lacks’ opinions were of even less consideration than a wealthy white man’s” and not drawn your conclusion.
His conclusion was that nobody's opinions on the subject mattered in 1951.
His opinion is irrelevant because he is making a logical conclusion to Toni’s argument.
As far as I'm concerned Toni is trying to argue that somehow zero is greater than zero.
Irrelevant to your claim that she was contradicting yourself.

[
What were you intending to say?
 
My opinion is that your opinion is not only ill-informed but is willfully uninformed because you have steadfastly refused to read any links that describe the issues involved and, like always, go with the first thought that comes to your head which generally seems to be that black people deserve anything that happens to them unless it is good and especially if it involves monetary compensation, in which case it is simply woke nonsense, undeserved and to blame affirmative action.
You still have given no reason to think they would have handled it any differently than if she was rich, white and male.
 
If you had read the link to the Nature article —which you somehow seem to believe is unreliable because I posted the link, you would learn that there are many ethical issues that arose after the cell lines were developed and after medycal ethics regarding informed consent and patient privacy had become the norm as well as the law. Two of those issues include identifying the source of the HeLa cell lines by using Mrs. Lacks name and by publishing her entire genome, again, without permission from any member of the family and again, violating the privacy of this woman, which was not only not cool but against standard medical practice and ethics and actually against HIPPA laws and regulations.

Every person should be horrified at such egregious violations.
But that's not 1951.

There have been substantial ethical violations in the time since, but that doesn't establish any deviation from the norm back then. Nor does it establish that her status had anything to do with what happened since. It's not always racism!
 
My opinion is that your opinion is not only ill-informed but is willfully uninformed because you have steadfastly refused to read any links that describe the issues involved and, like always, go with the first thought that comes to your head which generally seems to be that black people deserve anything that happens to them unless it is good and especially if it involves monetary compensation, in which case it is simply woke nonsense, undeserved and to blame affirmative action.
You still have given no reason to think they would have handled it any differently than if she was rich, white and male.
Have you read the Nature article I linked?

FWIW, if those cells had been derived from a rich, white man’s prostate, the issues would still be there, provided that they violated his right to privacy and the right to privacy of all of his surviving family.

What would NOT exist would be a long and shameful history of (white) people profiting from the labor, the lives and the deaths of those they enslaved and their descendants. Are you unaware of the Tuskegee experiment ts on black men? Morally, this is right in line with the so-called medical experiments carried out by Nazis.

I seem to be completely unable to explain the shame and horror of treating human being as experimental subjects without regard to their rights or their humanity. I know that you are aware of HIPPA laws, but the fact that Mrs. Lacks’ privacy and the privacy of her entire family was so casually violated Serbs to make zero difference to you.

I am willing to accept any deficiency in my powers of explanation and persuasion, but I refuse to accept any responsibility for the lack of humanity or common decency that prevents some from seeing the harm, but at the same time allows them to fully experience outrage that a black family has benefited from the profits derived from their family member’s life—and death.

I think I’m going to go be sick now.
 
If you had read the link to the Nature article —which you somehow seem to believe is unreliable because I posted the link, you would learn that there are many ethical issues that arose after the cell lines were developed and after medycal ethics regarding informed consent and patient privacy had become the norm as well as the law. Two of those issues include identifying the source of the HeLa cell lines by using Mrs. Lacks name and by publishing her entire genome, again, without permission from any member of the family and again, violating the privacy of this woman, which was not only not cool but against standard medical practice and ethics and actually against HIPPA laws and regulations.

Every person should be horrified at such egregious violations.
But that's not 1951.

There have been substantial ethical violations in the time since, but that doesn't establish any deviation from the norm back then. Nor does it establish that her status had anything to do with what happened since. It's not always racism!
I cannot think of any other reason that some find it so objectionable that her surviving family members have been awarded damages for the grave harm done in violating her rights to privacy—and her family’s except racism.
 
I believe there was no award - there is a voluntary settlement. We don’t know what prompted the defendant to settle. But a voluntary settlement means the defendant felt it was in their best interests to settle.
 
not always racism!
Ah, your life motto.

It's obviously racism in this case, but it doesn't need to be racism to be wrong, and indeed the proposed suit was not accusing Thermo-Fisher of racism. They are accused of, and now have tacitly admitted to, profiting from the possibly illegal sale of something they had no right to sell.
 
If you had read the link to the Nature article —which you somehow seem to believe is unreliable because I posted the link, you would learn that there are many ethical issues that arose after the cell lines were developed and after medycal ethics regarding informed consent and patient privacy had become the norm as well as the law. Two of those issues include identifying the source of the HeLa cell lines by using Mrs. Lacks name and by publishing her entire genome, again, without permission from any member of the family and again, violating the privacy of this woman, which was not only not cool but against standard medical practice and ethics and actually against HIPPA laws and regulations.

Every person should be horrified at such egregious violations.
But that's not 1951.

There have been substantial ethical violations in the time since, but that doesn't establish any deviation from the norm back then. Nor does it establish that her status had anything to do with what happened since. It's not always racism!
I cannot think of any other reason that some find it so objectionable that her surviving family members have been awarded damages for the grave harm done in violating her rights to privacy—and her family’s except racism.
I find it wrong because why should her case be any different than all the others from back then? The proliferation of her cells wasn't known at the time.

Yes, the conduct was wrong--but it was the accepted norm. When the norm is wrong you change it, you don't punish those who followed it in the past.
 
I find it wrong because why should her case be any different than all the others from back then? The proliferation of her cells wasn't known at the time.

Yes, the conduct was wrong--but it was the accepted norm. When the norm is wrong you change it, you don't punish those who followed it in the past.
No one is being punished, so what are you going on about?
 
If you had read the link to the Nature article —which you somehow seem to believe is unreliable because I posted the link, you would learn that there are many ethical issues that arose after the cell lines were developed and after medycal ethics regarding informed consent and patient privacy had become the norm as well as the law. Two of those issues include identifying the source of the HeLa cell lines by using Mrs. Lacks name and by publishing her entire genome, again, without permission from any member of the family and again, violating the privacy of this woman, which was not only not cool but against standard medical practice and ethics and actually against HIPPA laws and regulations.

Every person should be horrified at such egregious violations.
But that's not 1951.

There have been substantial ethical violations in the time since, but that doesn't establish any deviation from the norm back then. Nor does it establish that her status had anything to do with what happened since. It's not always racism!
I cannot think of any other reason that some find it so objectionable that her surviving family members have been awarded damages for the grave harm done in violating her rights to privacy—and her family’s except racism.
I find it wrong because why should her case be any different than all the others from back then? The proliferation of her cells wasn't known at the time.

Yes, the conduct was wrong--but it was the accepted norm. When the norm is wrong you change it, you don't punish those who followed it in the past.
1. It was not unusual to not inform patients that tissues removed during a treatment might be used for research.
2. That has changed now. We cannot go back in time and right wrongs but when we know something was wrong, we can admit to it and make whatever redress is possible and useful.
3. Not all of those wrongs, and one might argue, not the most egregious wrongs were committed in 1951. HIPPA became law in 1996. The genome of Henrietta Lacks was published in 2013 and identified as hers, without seeking it receiving permission from any of her family. This is a violation not only of Mrs. Lacks, but also her family and descendants.
4. As loathe as you are to read links, I hope you will consider the following link which discusses some of the issues involving not only Mrs. Lacks’ tissues but the tissues from
other patios later used to develop tests and treatments.: https://www.science.org/content/article/what-does-historic-settlement-won-henrietta-lacks-s-family-mean-others#:~:text=In%20the%20Lacks%20case%2C%20the,the%20day%2C”%20Andrews%20says.

Up thread there is an article from Nature magazine that I posted. I know you consider yourself to be somewhat informed about science so I hope you will recognize both Science and Nature as being extremely well regarded publications of scientific papers abd discussions relating to research and ethics, among other things.

The case of Mrs. Lacks is simply the most widely known example, and one that has gotten a lot of recent publicity.

It genuinely is puzzling to me why anyone can object to a family receiving compensation for the violation of their rights and the rights of their family members, particularly when millions of dollars has been made from the contribution, however unwitting.

It is really hard not to believe that the objections have to do with the fact that this most famous/infamous case involved a poor black woman who died very young from her illness and whose contributions have saved countless lives. Why is that so disturbing?
 
I find it wrong because why should her case be any different than all the others from back then? The proliferation of her cells wasn't known at the time.

Yes, the conduct was wrong--but it was the accepted norm. When the norm is wrong you change it, you don't punish those who followed it in the past.
No one is being punished, so what are you going on about?
Exactly. Nobody's being punished, but Lacks's estate is being compensated, in proportion to the value of what was unjustly taken.

Others who were treated in a similarly cavalier fashion are not being compensated to the same extent, because the value of what was taken from them turned out to be lower.
 
If you had read the link to the Nature article —which you somehow seem to believe is unreliable because I posted the link, you would learn that there are many ethical issues that arose after the cell lines were developed and after medycal ethics regarding informed consent and patient privacy had become the norm as well as the law. Two of those issues include identifying the source of the HeLa cell lines by using Mrs. Lacks name and by publishing her entire genome, again, without permission from any member of the family and again, violating the privacy of this woman, which was not only not cool but against standard medical practice and ethics and actually against HIPPA laws and regulations.

Every person should be horrified at such egregious violations.
But that's not 1951.

There have been substantial ethical violations in the time since, but that doesn't establish any deviation from the norm back then. Nor does it establish that her status had anything to do with what happened since. It's not always racism!
I cannot think of any other reason that some find it so objectionable that her surviving family members have been awarded damages for the grave harm done in violating her rights to privacy—and her family’s except racism.
I find it wrong because why should her case be any different than all the others from back then? The proliferation of her cells wasn't known at the time.

Yes, the conduct was wrong--but it was the accepted norm. When the norm is wrong you change it, you don't punish those who followed it in the past.
What "all the others" are you even referring to?

And the conduct in question was always unethical. If it was "standard procedure" and completely acceptable to all concerned, why all the secrecy and lies for so kany decades? Why hide ethically sound practices, unless you have readon to believe that people would disapprove if they knew about it?
 
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