Hezbollah’s Exploding Electronics

[ZiprHead]

Which is why Iran should have been handled much earlier, during the Obama administration at the latest.

Why is the Iran/Israel conflict any of our business? If Israel wants to take out the Iranian government, I say go for it. But to me, there are no goods guys anywhere in this situation.

BTW, if you think Israel needs help, you're welcome to gothere and fight for them.

Well, it a major war in the ME would greatly harm the world's economy.

MSN

I think that Dimon is a pompous ass. But he makes a good point here: all this war is not good for the world's economy. We don't need another war in the ME.

Oh, I actually agree with that. Which means the US staying out of it is a good idea.

 

[bilby]

Which is why Iran should have been handled much earlier, during the Obama administration at the latest.

Why is the Iran/Israel conflict any of our business? If Israel wants to take out the Iranian government, I say go for it. But to me, there are no goods guys anywhere in this situation.

BTW, if you think Israel needs help, you're welcome to gothere and fight for them.

Well, it a major war in the ME would greatly harm the world's economy.

MSN

I think that Dimon is a pompous ass. But he makes a good point here: all this war is not good for the world's economy. We don't need another war in the ME.

Oh, I actually agree with that. Which means the US staying out of it is a good idea.

An isolationist US would result in more war, not less.

The expectation that the US would 'stay out of it' was a major factor in Utin's invasion of Ukraine.

 

[Elixir]

The expectation that the US would 'stay out of it' was a major factor in Utin's invasion of Ukraine.

The expectation was that the comedian would never get elected, and if he did it’s nothing that couldn’t be remedied with some credible threats and an amassing of armor on their border.
When that didn’t do the trick, they set out for Kyiv, lost all their stuff and people and suddenly the threats weren’t so credible. That’s when the US and NATO really started supporting Ukraine.

 

[Derec]

You’re putting words in my mouth. I did not say that I excuse hamas.

You said the Hamas atrocities were "understandable". I did not put that word in your mouth (nor in your keyboard).

They are are bandit thugs. But I understand their motivation. They want to kill Israelis and steal their land. But this thread is about Israel’s attack on hezbollah. Not Hamas. Hezbos attacked Israel on October 8 for no reason but to cause chaos. If they don’t want Israeli attacks on them: stop firing missiles into Israel! Pretty damn simple.

Hezbos also want to kill Israelis and destroy their country. While they are different organizations, their goals re Israel are very similar.

 

[Derec]

Why is the Iran/Israel conflict any of our business? If Israel wants to take out the Iranian government, I say go for it. But to me, there are no goods guys anywhere in this situation.

Israel is our ally and Iran is also our enemy. Appeasement doesn't work.
By the way, is that also your attitude to the Russia/Ukraine conflict?

BTW, if you think Israel needs help, you're welcome to gothere and fight for them.

If somebody thinks that we should support Ukraine with weapons, do you also glibly suggest that instead he should go fight? Or do you reserve such dismissive attitude toward Israel only?

 

[Derec]

It was an anti-Israel protest a day after 10/7. 10/7 did not have to be mentioned explicitly.

Yes it does.

Only to the terminally obtuse.

The day after 10/7, Israel was bombing Gaza.

And rightly so. No other country would be expected not to strike back. But somehow Israel is condemned for defending itself.
We see this perversion with Hezbollah too. Hezbollah keeps attacking Israel, but when Israel strikes Hezbollah many commentators, and even some western politicians (e.g. in the Belgian government) are pretending that Israel was striking inside Lebanon for no reason.

Hence there are multiple possibly valid interpretations as to what is being reference.

No, there aren't. "Resistance is justified" right after 10/7 is the clear reference justifying Hamas (aka "Islamic Resistance Movement") murdering Jews. There is no other valid interpretation here.

It is entirely possible that different flag wavers were referencing different things. I don't dismiss that there were supporters of Hamas and terroristm

Yes, you are pretty much dismissing it by pretending that there are different interpretations of these banners. By the way, what is your apologetics for "from the river to the sea" slogans?

but I don't dismiss that there were protesters who are supporting the Gazan civilians and their struggle to remain alive and uninjured.

I am sure there are some, but they are not waving banners with references to Palestinian "Resistance".
Another photo from the same 10/8 protest:

"By any means necessary" is pretty clear justifying Hamas terrorism.
"Free all our prisoners" including murderous terrorists like Abdullah Barghouti who is serving 67 life terms.
"Stop the US-Israeli war against Palestine" is particularly rich given that Gaza started the war.
I wonder what apologetics you will have for these banners.

Just like I don't dismiss that there those who support Israel who root for genocide

Who for example?

 

[Derec]

To get back to Hezbollah, another high-ranking commander bit the dust.
Lebanese sources say top Hezbollah missile commander among 6 killed in IDF strike on Beirut

A top Hezbollah commander in charge of the terror group’s missile unit was killed in the IDF strike on a Beirut apartment building, two Lebanese security sources tell Reuters.
He is identified as Ibrahim Qubaisi.
The Lebanese health ministry gave an initial toll of six dead and 15 wounded in the strike.

 

[Harry Bosch]

You’re putting words in my mouth. I did not say that I excuse hamas.

You said the Hamas atrocities were "understandable". I did not put that word in your mouth (nor in your keyboard).

They are are bandit thugs. But I understand their motivation. They want to kill Israelis and steal their land. But this thread is about Israel’s attack on hezbollah. Not Hamas. Hezbos attacked Israel on October 8 for no reason but to cause chaos. If they don’t want Israeli attacks on them: stop firing missiles into Israel! Pretty damn simple.

Hezbos also want to kill Israelis and destroy their country. While they are different organizations, their goals re Israel are very similar.

WTF? Do you understand why the Nazis attacked Poland in 1939? Does you understanding of that illegal invasion mean that you excuse their actions?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Oh, I actually agree with that. Which means the US staying out of it is a good idea.

An isolationist US would result in more war, not less.

The expectation that the US would 'stay out of it' was a major factor in Utin's invasion of Ukraine.

Putin loves history so much, he decided to relive the Crimean War. Russia made some poor assumptions in that one as well. Unfortunately for Russia in this case, the West's involvement is with both hands tied behind its back.... and that is still too much for Russia to push against.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You’re putting words in my mouth. I did not say that I excuse hamas.

You said the Hamas atrocities were "understandable". I did not put that word in your mouth (nor in your keyboard).

How long have you been posting here? It is utterly unbelievable that you think Harry Bosch is excusing Hamas' actions. There is no way you can possibly believe that. Their posting history speaks for itself, and if you by some fluke thought that was Harry Bosch's point in a post, it'd be a moment to reflect that maybe you misunderstood what they meant. What's next? Going to call Loren Pechtel anti-Israel?

They are are bandit thugs. But I understand their motivation. They want to kill Israelis and steal their land. But this thread is about Israel’s attack on hezbollah. Not Hamas. Hezbos attacked Israel on October 8 for no reason but to cause chaos. If they don’t want Israeli attacks on them: stop firing missiles into Israel! Pretty damn simple.

Hezbos also want to kill Israelis and destroy their country. While they are different organizations, their goals re Israel are very similar.

It is as if you are just posting for the sake of it and quoting text as an excuse to type in words. You clearly didn't bother to read or understand what they wrote.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Which is why Iran should have been handled much earlier, during the Obama administration at the latest.

Why is the Iran/Israel conflict any of our business? If Israel wants to take out the Iranian government, I say go for it. But to me, there are no goods guys anywhere in this situation.

BTW, if you think Israel needs help, you're welcome to gothere and fight for them.

Well, it a major war in the ME would greatly harm the world's economy.

MSN

I think that Dimon is a pompous ass. But he makes a good point here: all this war is not good for the world's economy. We don't need another war in the ME.

Oh, I actually agree with that. Which means the US staying out of it is a good idea.

An isolationist US would result in more war, not less.

The expectation that the US would 'stay out of it' was a major factor in Utin's invasion of Ukraine.

Very much agreed. Somehow, we have to find a way to stop countries from invading other countries. American isolation or pulling back will lead to more wars.

 

[laughing dog]

It was an anti-Israel protest a day after 10/7. 10/7 did not have to be mentioned explicitly.

Yes it does.

Only to the terminally obtuse.

The day after 10/7, Israel was bombing Gaza.

And rightly so. No other country would be expected not to strike back. But somehow Israel is condemned for defending itself.

I believe that much of the condemnation (not all) is based on HOW Israel is defending itself. Reasonable people can disagree on the approprate modes of defense. Even the Israelis, including the military, disagree.

We see this perversion with Hezbollah too. Hezbollah keeps attacking Israel, but when Israel strikes Hezbollah many commentators, and even some western politicians (e.g. in the Belgian government) are pretending that Israel was striking inside Lebanon for no reason.

Hence there are multiple possibly valid interpretations as to what is being reference.

No, there aren't. "Resistance is justified" right after 10/7 is the clear reference justifying Hamas (aka "Islamic Resistance Movement") murdering Jews. There is no other valid interpretation here.

It is entirely possible that different flag wavers were referencing different things. I don't dismiss that there were supporters of Hamas and terroristm

Yes, you are pretty much dismissing it by pretending that there are different interpretations of these banners. By the way, what is your apologetics for "from the river to the sea" slogans?

but I don't dismiss that there were protesters who are supporting the Gazan civilians and their struggle to remain alive and uninjured.

I am sure there are some, but they are not waving banners with references to Palestinian "Resistance".
Another photo from the same 10/8 protest:

"By any means necessary" is pretty clear justifying Hamas terrorism.
"Free all our prisoners" including murderous terrorists like Abdullah Barghouti who is serving 67 life terms.
"Stop the US-Israeli war against Palestine" is particularly rich given that Gaza started the war.
I wonder what apologetics you will have for these banners.

Just like I don't dismiss that there those who support Israel who root for genocide

Who for example?

Handwaved rejections of alternative reasonable possible motivation and meaning in an emotional complex issue strongly suggests an unreasonable confidence in certainty of knowledge that makes rational discussion possible and results in responses like yours.

 

[laughing dog]

You’re putting words in my mouth. I did not say that I excuse hamas.

You said the Hamas atrocities were "understandable". I did not put that word in your mouth (nor in your keyboard).

You’re putting words in my mouth. I did not say that I excuse hamas.

You said the Hamas atrocities were "understandable". I did not put that word in your mouth (nor in your keyboard).

They are are bandit thugs. But I understand their motivation. They want to kill Israelis and steal their land. But this thread is about Israel’s attack on hezbollah. Not Hamas. Hezbos attacked Israel on October 8 for no reason but to cause chaos. If they don’t want Israeli attacks on them: stop firing missiles into Israel! Pretty damn simple.

Hezbos also want to kill Israelis and destroy their country. While they are different organizations, their goals re Israel are very similar.

WTF? Do you understand why the Nazis attacked Poland in 1939? Does you understanding of that illegal invasion mean that you excuse their actions?

Derec's conflation is common among kneejerk ideologues, including religious fanatics. For example, understanding the universe made someone a heretic in the Middle Ages. I believe it is driven by a lack of self-confidence which exhibits itself in a need to correct and an inability to handle complex explanations. But, I am not a psychologist and my beliefs are often incorrect.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It was an anti-Israel protest a day after 10/7. 10/7 did not have to be mentioned explicitly.

Yes it does.

Only to the terminally obtuse.

The day after 10/7, Israel was bombing Gaza.

And rightly so. No other country would be expected not to strike back. But somehow Israel is condemned for defending itself.

I believe that much of the condemnation (not all) is based on HOW Israel is defending itself. Reasonable people can disagree on the approprate modes of defense. Even the Israelis, including the military, disagree.

We see this perversion with Hezbollah too. Hezbollah keeps attacking Israel, but when Israel strikes Hezbollah many commentators, and even some western politicians (e.g. in the Belgian government) are pretending that Israel was striking inside Lebanon for no reason.

Hence there are multiple possibly valid interpretations as to what is being reference.

No, there aren't. "Resistance is justified" right after 10/7 is the clear reference justifying Hamas (aka "Islamic Resistance Movement") murdering Jews. There is no other valid interpretation here.

It is entirely possible that different flag wavers were referencing different things. I don't dismiss that there were supporters of Hamas and terroristm

Yes, you are pretty much dismissing it by pretending that there are different interpretations of these banners. By the way, what is your apologetics for "from the river to the sea" slogans?

but I don't dismiss that there were protesters who are supporting the Gazan civilians and their struggle to remain alive and uninjured.

I am sure there are some, but they are not waving banners with references to Palestinian "Resistance".
Another photo from the same 10/8 protest:

"By any means necessary" is pretty clear justifying Hamas terrorism.
"Free all our prisoners" including murderous terrorists like Abdullah Barghouti who is serving 67 life terms.
"Stop the US-Israeli war against Palestine" is particularly rich given that Gaza started the war.
I wonder what apologetics you will have for these banners.

Just like I don't dismiss that there those who support Israel who root for genocide

Who for example?

Handwaved rejections of alternative reasonable possible motivation and meaning in an emotional complex issue strongly suggests an unreasonable confidence in certainty of knowledge that makes rational discussion possible and results in responses like yours.

I am very certain some people think it is all or nothing at this point and condone the crimes committed by Hamas. But those people aren't a tool to be used as a broad brush in order to dehumanize an entire population of people. Much like how Netanyahu's actions and his shouldn't be used to broad brush the opinions of all Israelis.

 

[Elixir]

I am very certain some people think it is all or nothing at this point and condone the crimes committed by Hamas. But those people aren't a tool to be used as a broad brush in order to dehumanize an entire population of people. Much like how Netanyahu's actions and his shouldn't be used to broad brush the opinions of all Israelis.

IMHO There’s something wrong with having to ‘splain that to the demonizers in the GQP and it’s “non Trumpsucking” enablers.

 

[ZiprHead]

Why is the Iran/Israel conflict any of our business? If Israel wants to take out the Iranian government, I say go for it. But to me, there are no goods guys anywhere in this situation.

Israel is our ally and Iran is also our enemy. Appeasement doesn't work.

Where did I say anything about appeasement?

By the way, is that also your attitude to the Russia/Ukraine conflict?

No. Do you think the two situations are similar?

BTW, if you think Israel needs help, you're welcome to gothere and fight for them.

If somebody thinks that we should support Ukraine with weapons, do you also glibly suggest that instead he should go fight?

No. The situations are very differant. That you equate the two is wrong.

Or do you reserve such dismissive attitude toward Israel only?

Yes.

 

[ZiprHead]

Which is why Iran should have been handled much earlier, during the Obama administration at the latest.

Why is the Iran/Israel conflict any of our business? If Israel wants to take out the Iranian government, I say go for it. But to me, there are no goods guys anywhere in this situation.

BTW, if you think Israel needs help, you're welcome to gothere and fight for them.

Well, it a major war in the ME would greatly harm the world's economy.

MSN

I think that Dimon is a pompous ass. But he makes a good point here: all this war is not good for the world's economy. We don't need another war in the ME.

Oh, I actually agree with that. Which means the US staying out of it is a good idea.

An isolationist US would result in more war, not less.

The expectation that the US would 'stay out of it' was a major factor in Utin's invasion of Ukraine.

Very much agreed. Somehow, we have to find a way to stop countries from invading other countries. American isolation or pulling back will lead to more wars.

I don't agree with full isolation. I just don't see any good guys in the Gaza/Hesbo/Israel situation.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

An isolationist US would result in more war, not less.

The expectation that the US would 'stay out of it' was a major factor in Utin's invasion of Ukraine.

Very much agreed. Somehow, we have to find a way to stop countries from invading other countries. American isolation or pulling back will lead to more wars.

I don't agree with full isolation. I just don't see any good guys in the Gaza/Hesbo/Israel situation.

Don't have to have good guys. We need to try and stop the killing. The problem we have is that the major players in the region are apathetic to the Palestinians at best, while others use them as pawns. I get the Middle Eastern nations don't like the West. There is baggage. Any deal brokered would need to have the Palestinian interests at equal with the Israelis. But with Iran, they don't care about Palestinians. They want their big bad heel in Israel to be suffering. I think the only way to go about it is to sell a final peace plan, hard... something that is great for the Palestinians, something that would make the Iranian theocracy isolated (more so) globally in rejecting it. Of course, the other issue is that the hard liners that control more policy in Israel than the percentage of the vote they receive should allow, also don't care about the Palestinians and have their own agenda.

Which leads to what makes this a difficult peace plan, current leadership on both sides do not want peace. The people are much more likely to want stability, but they aren't in charge.

 

[Elixir]

The people are much more likely to want stability, but they aren't in charge.

That is a feature of authoritarian government.
The kind that over 40% of Murkin voters desire. We better tend to our own house.

 

[Derec]

WTF? Do you understand why the Nazis attacked Poland in 1939? Does you understanding of that illegal invasion mean that you excuse their actions?

WTF indeed. You may be inadvertently using the wrong word here.

understandable adjective
/ˌʌndəˈstændəbl/
/ˌʌndərˈstændəbl/
Word Family
(of behaviour, feelings, reactions, etc.) seeming normal and reasonable in a particular situation
synonym natural
Their attitude is perfectly understandable.
It was an understandable mistake to make.

From here.