Hillary Clinton Reemerges

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

She's baaack...

In a little-noticed news story, it was mentioned the Hulu documentary was coming out Friday.

A highlight: she claims Bernie Sanders didn't have a job until he was 41.

It's as untrue as the media's harping on Sanders' praising Castro, but you can expect snippets like these to get more air time.

 

[Xoxarle1]

I assumed from the thread title this was a verdict on the Super Tuesday vote.

Part of the reason I was wanting Sanders to win was the thought of the Clintons having to either endorse him or try to figure out a convincing reason not to.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I assumed from the thread title this was a verdict on the Super Tuesday vote.

Part of the reason I was wanting Sanders to win was the thought of the Clintons having to either endorse him or try to figure out a convincing reason not to.

She will probably endorse Biden just prior to NY voting to give him a bump.

 

[Politesse]

This campaign has really done some damage to my impressions of some folks that I previously liked. Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren. But with Clinton that already happened when she was running the first time, and loosed her hounds on Obama without embarrassment.

I almost wish we'd been allowed to pick a candidate per "lane". I mean, I will always back Progressive causes and candidates; my liberalism and pacifism are genuinely held convictions, not a window dressing to hide a secret love of the neoliberal world order and the place of elite white enclaves at the top of it.

But if we were always going to have a moderate candidate come out on top, I wish it had been Amy Klobuchar or Kamala Harris. We desperately need some sensible but honest people in government.

 

[Xoxarle1]

I assumed from the thread title this was a verdict on the Super Tuesday vote.

Part of the reason I was wanting Sanders to win was the thought of the Clintons having to either endorse him or try to figure out a convincing reason not to.

She will probably endorse Biden just prior to NY voting to give him a bump.

NY doesn't really matter, does it? Kind of like CA. They aren't in any danger of turning red.

We really need to end the EC farce. It's just not even remotely demcratic. Small pockets of the country are going to get massive attention this Fall. Great swathes of the country will be ignored.

I'm speaking as someone who lives in the I4 Corridor (in Florida), and knows what it's like to get this attention in elections past.

 

[Politesse]

I assumed from the thread title this was a verdict on the Super Tuesday vote.

Part of the reason I was wanting Sanders to win was the thought of the Clintons having to either endorse him or try to figure out a convincing reason not to.

She will probably endorse Biden just prior to NY voting to give him a bump.

NY doesn't really matter, does it? Kind of like CA. They aren't in any danger of turning red.

We really need to end the EC farce. It's just not even remotely demcratic. Small pockets of the country are going to get massive attention this Fall. Great swathes of the country will be ignored.

I'm speaking as someone who lives in the I4 Corridor (in Florida), and knows what it's like to get this attention in elections past.

I think so too, but it isn't going to happen. More than a fifth of the national population lives in two states, and the rest of the nation will not let California and Texas become their handlers while they still have any voice in the matter. I even kind of understand why, though I certainly don't approve of the corresponding disenfranchisement of my vote. The whole idea of a democratic empire was always a contradiction in terms. 30 million people in diverse environments with contradictory needs cannot truly be democratically ruled.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I assumed from the thread title this was a verdict on the Super Tuesday vote.

Part of the reason I was wanting Sanders to win was the thought of the Clintons having to either endorse him or try to figure out a convincing reason not to.

She will probably endorse Biden just prior to NY voting to give him a bump.

NY doesn't really matter, does it? Kind of like CA. They aren't in any danger of turning red.

We really need to end the EC farce. It's just not even remotely demcratic. Small pockets of the country are going to get massive attention this Fall. Great swathes of the country will be ignored.

I'm speaking as someone who lives in the I4 Corridor (in Florida), and knows what it's like to get this attention in elections past.

Sorry for confision. I meant during the primary, not GE. So, Clinton can give Biden a bump in NY state versus Bernie.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

NY doesn't really matter, does it? Kind of like CA. They aren't in any danger of turning red.

We really need to end the EC farce. It's just not even remotely demcratic. Small pockets of the country are going to get massive attention this Fall. Great swathes of the country will be ignored.

I'm speaking as someone who lives in the I4 Corridor (in Florida), and knows what it's like to get this attention in elections past.

Sorry for confision. I meant during the primary, not GE. So, Clinton can give Biden a bump in NY state versus Bernie.

There shouldn't have been any confusion, since we all know that NY votes in the general election on the same day as everyone else.

 

[Deepak]

I assumed from the thread title this was a verdict on the Super Tuesday vote.

Part of the reason I was wanting Sanders to win was the thought of the Clintons having to either endorse him or try to figure out a convincing reason not to.

She will probably endorse Biden just prior to NY voting to give him a bump.

I'm more interested in who she would endorse in the general election should Bernie get the nod.

 

[Derec]

I'm more interested in who she would endorse in the general election should Bernie get the nod.

Hillary would mount a third party run, probably. She really can't stand Bernie. Now she is lying that he didn't have a job until 41.

 

[southernhybrid]

I know that Hillary is bitter because she thinks that Sanders was the cause of her losing the election, despite the fact that she did win the popular vote. I think there may be truth in that. But, she didn't say he didn't have a job. She said he didn't have a "real job" until he was 41. That of course is a matter of opinion. Bernie had an assortment of jobs prior to age 41.

"As for his employment history, Sanders says he spent his first 12 years of employment after graduation, from 1964 to 1976, as a freelance writer, carpenter, youth counselor and state employee."

That's what's on his resume. What did he do and how long did he work as a state employee? I was a state employee for close to ten years but I can give you the job titles that I held. Why doesn't Bernie mention his? That is pretty weird. I can see how some people would say that he didn't have a "real job", if they meant that he was sort of floating around without much direction prior to becoming the mayor of Burlington. A four year degree in political science, even back then, doesn't usually give you that much potential for a good job.

Every politician including Bernie has fudged the truth, lied, exaggerated etc. I don't see what Hillary said as being much different from what the typical politician says. Sanders has said a to of things that I would consider false or not totally honest. I'm not sure there has ever been a totally honest politician. Even when one tries to be honest, their words are often taken out of context to make them look like lies or false hoods. Plus, I seriously doubt there are many people who give a shit about what Hillary says these days. Don't we have more important things to discuss?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I know that Hillary is bitter because she thinks that Sanders was the cause of her losing the election, despite the fact that she did win the popular vote. I think there may be truth in that. But, she didn't say he didn't have a job. She said he didn't have a "real job" until he was 41. That of course is a matter of opinion. Bernie had an assortment of jobs prior to age 41.

Here are Hillary's words:

He didn't work until he was 41 and then he got elected to something

"As for his employment history, Sanders says he spent his first 12 years of employment after graduation, from 1964 to 1976, as a freelance writer, carpenter, youth counselor and state employee."

That's what's on his resume. What did he do and how long did he work as a state employee? I was a state employee for close to ten years but I can give you the job titles that I held. Why doesn't Bernie mention his? That is pretty weird. I can see how some people would say that he didn't have a "real job", if they meant that he was sort of floating around without much direction prior to becoming the mayor of Burlington. A four year degree in political science, even back then, doesn't usually give you that much potential for a good job.

Every politician including Bernie has fudged the truth, lied, exaggerated etc. I don't see what Hillary said as being much different from what the typical politician says. Sanders has said a to of things that I would consider false or not totally honest. I'm not sure there has ever been a totally honest politician. Even when one tries to be honest, their words are often taken out of context to make them look like lies or false hoods. Plus, I seriously doubt there are many people who give a shit about what Hillary says these days. Don't we have more important things to discuss?

Here's his resume:
https://splinternews.com/this-old-copy-of-bernie-sanders-resume-from-the-1980s-i-1793854662

I don't even mention I was in the military, washed dishes, was an inventory clerk, waited on tables, etc etc in my professional resume.

And also I only briefly described previous experience one year because the trend was to make 1 page.

Now the trend is overload it and many pages...but I would still minimize items less pertinent to my professional career.

In Bernie's case, Politico goes into some more detail:

According to Politico, after Sanders graduated from the University in Chicago in 1964, he bounced from job to job. Early gigs included working as an aide at a psychiatric hospital and teaching preschoolers for Head Start (a program to help children in low-income families succeed in school) in New York City, Politico reported.

Then Sanders moved to Vermont in 1968 when he was 27, where he worked for the Vermont Department of Taxes as a researcher. He later moved to a nonprofit called the Bread and Law Task Force, where he helped register people for food stamps, according to Politico.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/photos-bernie-sanders-resume-as-mayor-of-burlington-vermont.html

Those sound like jobs to me. I thought we value teachers, researchers, and people who help the poor?

At the same time, he was engaged in other activities.

Age 36 to 41 he was director of american people's historical society. He made 25 filmstrips...that 5 per year...he made two television productions...those can take a while...and he wrote numerous papers.

I know people who are members of historical societies who do far, far less. That sounds very productive.

 

[Derec]

I know that Hillary is bitter because she thinks that Sanders was the cause of her losing the election, despite the fact that she did win the popular vote.

I know Bernie is hella old, but he is not old enough to have participated in the constitutional convention.
Her popular vote victory is a red herring though:
1. She only won a plurality, not a majority. Countries with direct election of presidents have a runoff in the case where no candidate wins the majority, so her victory would not be guaranteed if we had
2. The vote would not have been as it was in 2016 if we had a popular vote system
a. There would be no spoiler disincentive to vote for smaller party candidates and so there would be more serious campaigns by Greens, Libertarians and the like, increasing their vote share.
b. Both Hillary and Trump would have competed differently if the election was by popular vote, so the vote would have been different even disregarding smaller party candidates.

I think there may be truth in that.

I think Bernie did more for Hillary than she would have done had he won the nomination. Sure, he was not quick to concede but neither was she in 2008 and I don't see Obama holding a grudge. He even made her his SecState.

But, she didn't say he didn't have a job. She said he didn't have a "real job" until he was 41. That of course is a matter of opinion. Bernie had an assortment of jobs prior to age 41.
"As for his employment history, Sanders says he spent his first 12 years of employment after graduation, from 1964 to 1976, as a freelance writer, carpenter, youth counselor and state employee."

I think it smacks of elitism to deny that these are real jobs. And it kind of summarizes why Hillary rubbed so many people the wrong way, especially the blue collar voters in the Midwest that cost her the presidency. Besides ...

That's what's on his resume. What did he do and how long did he work as a state employee?

That does seem a bit nebulous.

I don't see what Hillary said as being much different from what the typical politician says.

I don't think it's very typical. Especially at this juncture of her career, it's a just about being a sore loser.

 

[southernhybrid]

My point is that what she said is much ado about nothing. I don't see a thing wrong with what she said. It's simply her opinion. I can understand why she is bitter, but I also think she should have moved on by now. So, by being petty, she makes herself look weak. But, then I haven't been through what she has, so I shouldn't judge.

Hillary didn't say anything dangerous or crazy. She just gave her personal opinion of Sanders work life prior to age 41. BFD! It's time to leave the woman alone. She's been brutally attacked most of her adult life by the male dominated political culture.. She's been accused falsely of crimes and used as a target by the current president. And, you think that it's worth attacking her for giving her opinion about another man who has, imo, treated her unfairly! That's just sad!

And you know what I find very sad? There is some asshole who lives in my neighborhood, who has had a sign on the front lawn of the house that says, "NEVER HILLARY". I"m sure whoever put that sign out is a Trump supporter, as it's been there for about 4 years now.

I am disappointed to see a progressive attack her. Bashing and criticizing the only female whoever won a Democratic primary, over minutia isn't progressive at all. I don't know why the nutty person or family in my neighborhood is so obsessed with Hillary, and I don't know why some of the men here seem to have the same problem. Just sayin'.

 

[Derec]

My point is that what she said is much ado about nothing. I don't see a thing wrong with what she said.

There is plenty wrong. First, it's factually wrong. Second, as you admitted, it is petty, and as I said before, it is elitist. Not everybody can marry a governor and be a corporate lawyer.

It's simply her opinion.

It's not just a matter of opinion to say somebody hasn't worked before the age of 41.

It's time to leave the woman alone.

She made a public pronouncement, and thus responding to it publicly is fair game. If she were to content herself with living her private life, I would be first to agree with you. But she is keeping herself in the public eye. Maybe she should leave America alone.

She's been brutally attacked most of her adult life by the male dominated political culture..

Boo-fucking-hoo! It is in the job description of being a politician to be attacked - it's not about her being a woman. Bernie gets attacked much more fiercely, and politicians like Biden also get their fair share of attacks.
If Hillary didn't want to be attacked, she should have stayed out of politics. She could have chosen a non-offensive cause as first lady (and baked cookies, obviously!) and after Clinton left office, she could have gone back to defending Walmart from lawsuits.

She's been accused falsely of crimes and used as a target by the current president.

Who hasn't been used as a target by the current president?

And, you think that it's worth attacking her for giving her opinion about another man who has, imo, treated her unfairly! That's just sad!

How has Bernie treated her unfairly. Please be specific!

And you know what I find very sad? There is some asshole who lives in my neighborhood, who has had a sign on the front lawn of the house that says, "NEVER HILLARY". I"m sure whoever put that sign out is a Trump supporter, as it's been there for about 4 years now.

Maybe he is a carpenter who resents Hillary thinking it's not a real job ...

I am disappointed to see a progressive attack her. Bashing and criticizing the only female whoever won a Democratic primary, over minutia isn't progressive at all. I don't know why the nutty person or family in my neighborhood is so obsessed with Hillary, and I don't know why some of the men here seem to have the same problem. Just sayin'.

Her being a woman should not affect how she is treated one way or another. If criticizing losing candidate Kerry or Gore or Dukakis is fair game, then criticizing Hillary should be just as acceptable, no matter her plumbing.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

... she is bitter,... petty,

These are stereotypes.

Second, as you admitted, it is petty,...

Jeez. Can you both stop with the stereotypes?



Come on peoples....save drama for TOMORROW.

The media frenzy begins tomorrow.

 

[Deepak]

... she is bitter,... petty,

These are stereotypes.

They often are, but in this case both seem to be descriptive. You can give her a pass, but other people clearly have a different take. Saying her piece on his policy, or whatever effect she thinks he had on the general election is one thing, saying he didn't work for 41 years of his life is... well, petty and bitter.

 

[Elixir]

... she is bitter,... petty,

These are stereotypes.

They often are, but in this case both seem to be descriptive. You can give her a pass, but other people clearly have a different take. Saying her piece on his policy, or whatever effect she thinks he had on the general election is one thing, saying he didn't work for 41 years of his life is... well, petty and bitter.

There is a certain tone-deafness to the fact that she's still a poison pill for the democratic party. Republicans loooove to drag her into any conversation, so just making herself visible isn't helpful.

 

[Tigers!]

I thought Hilary had had a wooden stake driven in her heart to keep her down?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I thought Hilary had had a wooden stake driven in her heart to keep her down?

Really? That's a little violent, don't you think?