How do You Deal with Christmas?

[Hermit]

Not so crazy about Handel

It's fairly easy to get a grip on.

If you make another pun like that I'll put you on my ignore Liszt!

 

[steve_bank]

I love Mozart's Mass in C Minor. Not so crazy about Handel, but I can understand why a music loving Christian would love it. The words are a bit too much for me. At least the Mass is in Latin. I love listening to it as I drift off to sleep during cold winter nights.

As a singer, my take on words is a little different. Most singers don't really pay any attention to the actual words themselves except to make sure that they pronounce them clearly while singing. I have sung in several languages (Latin, Spanish, German) that I don't speak at all and have no idea what the words actually meant.

The music is what carries me away.

Ruth

You have ruined music for me. I will never listen to opera again.

 

[southernhybrid]

I love Mozart's Mass in C Minor. Not so crazy about Handel, but I can understand why a music loving Christian would love it. The words are a bit too much for me. At least the Mass is in Latin. I love listening to it as I drift off to sleep during cold winter nights.

As a singer, my take on words is a little different. Most singers don't really pay any attention to the actual words themselves except to make sure that they pronounce them clearly while singing. I have sung in several languages (Latin, Spanish, German) that I don't speak at all and have no idea what the words actually meant.

The music is what carries me away.

Ruth

I can understand that, but other than opera and classical music that's in Latin, I do tend to pay close attention to the words of songs. Still, there are exceptions. There's an old song that Ray Charles does a great version of, that's a bit sexist, that I still love. I was singing it in the car yesterday on the way to the grocery store. OF course, that has nothing to do with Christmas.....

 

[Learner]

The amount of times I used to sing-along with my favorite songs with 'sounds-like-it' replacement words, singing the wrong lyrics. I understand too, like Ruth I get carried away with the music!

 

[Eldarion Lathria]

I declare this. If we get behind the Grinch and back the attack, we can win the war on Christmas. The Claus Regime MUST respect the Black Friday Agreement and cease its illegal occupation of November.

Eldarion Lathria

 

[Politesse]

I doubt that most traditional Christians, the ones who don't read or aren't very educated about such things know that Christians took a lot of the pagan Solstice Day rituals and appropriated them as part of their own celebrations.

I had a recent conversation on the word "Easter." The person is not overly religious or preachy, mostly just enjoys the old habits of going to church and socializing. But they had no idea where the word came from so I had to explain that it is named after a pagan goddess. This is why christians try to rename it the feast of the resurrection, it gets rid of the obvious pagan origins. I don't know if Eostre is resurrected in the original so maybe that phrase will have to be abandoned as well in time.

Very little is known about Eostre, unfortunately. A true victim of the ravages of history and inter-religious violence. Even many of the "facts" one finds on the internet are of fairly recent invention. Not an unusual situation, as there are a great many Celtic and Germanic deities for whom we now know only a name, a day, and some iconography.

But, I will also comment that Easter has always been properly called the Feast of the Resurrection. Easter is a folk renaming of the associated holiday, not the name of the rite. While we think of the name as very traditional in the English-speaking world, it did not get attached to the ritual until the 9th century, relatively late in Christian history and only in the then-obscure British Isles. And of course, being originally a Hebrew holiday, Pesach, the ultimate origins of the holiday we call Easter and its calendar date well preceded even Christianity itself.

 

[bilby]

I declare this. If we get behind the Grinch and back the attack, we can win the war on Christmas. The Claus Regime MUST respect the Black Friday Agreement and cease its illegal occupation of November.

Eldarion Lathria

The occupation of November is yesterday's news. October has since fallen, and serious assaults on September are now occurring.

If this continues, by the end of the decade the entire year will be suffering under the Clausian yoke.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

But, I will also comment that Easter has always been properly called the Feast of the Resurrection. Easter is a folk renaming of the associated holiday, not the name of the rite. While we think of the name as very traditional in the English-speaking world, it did not get attached to the ritual until the 9th century, relatively late in Christian history and only in the then-obscure British Isles. And of course, being originally a Hebrew holiday, Pesach, the ultimate origins of the holiday we call Easter and its calendar date well preceded even Christianity itself.

The roots of the word are certainly older than 9th century which would lead me to believe that the associated rituals predate even anything Hebrew. But if you have a citation or two I'd be curious.

 

[Politesse]

But, I will also comment that Easter has always been properly called the Feast of the Resurrection. Easter is a folk renaming of the associated holiday, not the name of the rite. While we think of the name as very traditional in the English-speaking world, it did not get attached to the ritual until the 9th century, relatively late in Christian history and only in the then-obscure British Isles. And of course, being originally a Hebrew holiday, Pesach, the ultimate origins of the holiday we call Easter and its calendar date well preceded even Christianity itself.

The roots of the word are certainly older than 9th century which would lead me to believe that the associated rituals predate even anything Hebrew. But if you have a citation or two I'd be curious.

Yes, the name Eostre is likely of ancient derivation as well, though no one now has the answer to that question. The Christian history of the Feast of the Resurrection is better known, as Christians were early adopters of the book and kept elaborate records of their ritual life. It was not until the 9th century that there is evidence of anyone referring to the Feast of the Resurrection as "Eostre's month", later, "Easter Sunday". But I did not mean to imply that either tradition originated at that time, that's just when they became conflated. All rituals have deep roots, I would not be surprised to learn that human cultures have been celebrating the Spring equinox in some form or another for these past 10,000 years. But there's a difference between supposing something might be true and posessing evidence that it is.

If you want to know as much about Eostre and how her name got attached to the holiday as does anyone, I would say you want to read the relevant portion of the only primary text that describes the situation, Bede's "Reckoning of Time". The passage primarily concerns the German calendar and how it was adopted or forgotten in turns as the Anglo-Saxons settled across Britain. It reads in full:

"Eosturmonath has a name which is now translated "Paschal month", and which was once called after a goddess of theirs named Eostre, in whose honour feasts were celebrated in that month. Now they designate that Paschal season by her name, calling the joys of the new rite by the time-honoured name of the old observance.[21]"

That's the source. The only other piece of evidence is philological in character: April is or was called Ostarmonat or "Ostara's month" throughout much of the Germanic-speaking world. If, as most believe, Ostara and Eostre are derivations of the same name, her worship must predate the Saxon expansion into Britain. But nothing more can be known about the matter unless more evidence turns up. It used to be a huge debate whether Eostre had existed at all, or whether Bede had made her up as a folk explanation for the name of the month. There's still a vocal minority of scholars who subscribe to this explanation.

 

[Tigers!]

Not so crazy about Handel

It's fairly easy to get a grip on.

If you make another pun like that I'll put you on my ignore Liszt!

You had better Czech your Liszt first.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I declare this. If we get behind the Grinch and back the attack, we can win the war on Christmas. The Claus Regime MUST respect the Black Friday Agreement and cease its illegal occupation of November.

Eldarion Lathria

The occupation of November is yesterday's news. October has since fallen, and serious assaults on September are now occurring.

If this continues, by the end of the decade the entire year will be suffering under the Clausian yoke.

We have Halloween, which seems to have managed to save us from Xmas sprawl into September. Not certain how, but it has. Maybe it really is Satan's holiday.

 

[bilby]

I declare this. If we get behind the Grinch and back the attack, we can win the war on Christmas. The Claus Regime MUST respect the Black Friday Agreement and cease its illegal occupation of November.

Eldarion Lathria

The occupation of November is yesterday's news. October has since fallen, and serious assaults on September are now occurring.

If this continues, by the end of the decade the entire year will be suffering under the Clausian yoke.

We have Halloween, which seems to have managed to save us from Xmas sprawl into September. Not certain how, but it has. Maybe it really is Satan's holiday.

YOU Have Halloween. It remains very much an American thing though, despite attempts by retailers to export it to the rest of the English speaking world.

 

[steve_bank]

Another tradition blending Christian and pagan roots.

Another dangerous ritual for kids.

Halloween - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Halloween or Hallowe'en (a contraction of "All Hallows' evening"),[5] less commonly known as Allhalloween,[6] All Hallows' Eve,[7] or All Saints' Eve,[8] is a celebration observed in many countries on 31 October, the eve of the Western Christian feast of All Hallows' Day. It begins the observance of Allhallowtide,[9] the time in the liturgical year dedicated to remembering the dead, including saints (hallows), martyrs, and all the departed.[10][11]

One theory holds that many Halloween traditions were influenced by Celtic harvest festivals, particularly the Gaelic festival Samhain, which are believed to have pagan roots.[12][13][14][15] Some go further and suggest that Samhain may have been Christianized as All Hallow's Day, along with its eve, by the early Church.[16] Other academics believe Halloween began solely as a Christian holiday, being the vigil of All Hallow's Day.[17][18][19][20] Celebrated in Ireland and Scotland for centuries, Irish and Scottish immigrants took many Halloween customs to North America in the 19th century,[21][22] and then through American influence Halloween had spread to other countries by the late 20th and early 21st century.[23][24]

Popular Halloween activities include trick-or-treating (or the related guising and souling), attending Halloween costume parties, carving pumpkins into jack-o'-lanterns, lighting bonfires, apple bobbing, divination games, playing pranks, visiting haunted attractions, telling scary stories, and watching horror or Halloween-themed films.[25] Some people practice the Christian religious observances of All Hallows' Eve, including attending church services and lighting candles on the graves of the dead,[26][27][28] although it is a secular celebration for others.[29][30][31] Some Christians historically abstained from meat on All Hallows' Eve, a tradition reflected in the eating of certain vegetarian foods on this vigil day, including apples, potato pancakes, and soul cakes.[32][33][34][35]

 

[Politesse]

No real danger in All Hallow's. The hallowed ancestors miss us as much as we miss them.

 

[TomC]

As Parent/Grandparent how do you deal with Christmas/Santa Claus with your children?

Has Christmas become a secular holiday?

Does peer pressure cause envy by non-religiously reared children towards Christian kids?

By recognizing that people need certain celebrations in our lives no matter what we call them or ostensibly celebrate.

Things get shitty around that time in winter and getting together with family to have the last good big meal you're going to get for a while was something baked into us.

Giving gifts and showing appreciation before the suck truly sets in is a part of that, too.

This is exactly how I see it.

There are very good reasons to hold a big festival at that time of year. At least in northern places. The tradition far predates Christianity.

A festival that celebrates comradery, warmth, and generosity. As the outside world becomes cold and dark and hostile. Hold big dinners! Tell stories to the kids! Decorate your home with gaudy goofy nonsense! Give presents!

Whatever!

Just have fun with the whole community!

Call it anything you want to call it. Just do it.
Tell the little ones anything you want to tell them.
Just make them happy.
Pretend you forgot how much your dumbass relative pissed you off last August.
Get them a present.

Indulge in the kind of fiction and lies that enhance the human situation. Call it anything you want.

Just do it.

Tom

 

[bilby]

The hallowed ancestors miss us as much as we miss them

I doubt it. They're dead.

 

[bilby]

There are very good reasons to hold a big festival at that time of year. At least in northern places.

I recall my first December in Queensland. For some reason I had to go to Mt. Ommaney shopping centre, on the Saturday before Xmas, and of course that meant parking at the absolute furthest extremity of the parking lot.

As I trekked across the vast expanse of sun-blasted tarmac and parked cars, on a day when it was 40°C in the shade, and the nearest shade was hundreds of metres away, I could feel the soles of my shoes beginning to melt.

Eventually I approached the entrance to the mall, and each time the automatic doors opened, a snatch of the music being played inside would waft out. They were playing 'Walking in a Winter Wonderland'

 

[Jarhyn]

The hallowed ancestors miss us as much as we miss them

I doubt it. They're dead.

All but the empathetic reflections of them that we carry inside us, our window into their hearts while they lived and the thing that visits us when we "remember them".

Of course these things MUST miss us, because they are us, but a part that has fallen into disuse for the absence of the person it was born and grew to bring understanding of, a lonely little ball of neurons hiding in your head, haunting you from the inside.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

No real danger in All Hallow's. The hallowed ancestors miss us as much as we miss them.

I thought we are them, which is the point of course.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We have Halloween, which seems to have managed to save us from Xmas sprawl into September. Not certain how, but it has. Maybe it really is Satan's holiday.

YOU Have Halloween. It remains very much an American thing though, despite attempts by retailers to export it to the rest of the English speaking world.

That's what I said. WE. And though Halloween itself has sprawled into September and even August... it is holding back Xmas like a solid dam. Not even Thanksgiving could hold off Xmas... and T-Day was sort of invented to promote Xmas shopping!

So I recommend adopting this. There is no music, so it is still safe to venture to stores.