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How do you solve a problem like Syria?

Here would be a cool way to help the ME, we should help the house of Saud clean its towers out :D Maybe we could send Paul Bremer over as an envoy to guide them....
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-regime-change-letters-leadership-king-salman
A senior Saudi prince has launched an unprecedented call for change in the country’s leadership, as it faces its biggest challenge in years in the form of war, plummeting oil prices and criticism of its management of Mecca, scene of last week’s hajj tragedy.

The prince, one of the grandsons of the state’s founder, Abdulaziz Ibn Saud, has told the Guardian that there is disquiet among the royal family – and among the wider public – at the leadership of King Salman, who acceded the throne in January.

The prince, who is not named for security reasons, wrote two letters earlier this month calling for the king to be removed.
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Cycad said:
BEFORE destabilizing Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Lybia (and few decades ago Iran), the US should wonder what would happen once the social fabric was destroyed. Or maybe some people did just that and what we see now is the successful result of a well planned strategy. Not a failure at all.

To me it looks like textbook example of divide et impera.

All countries Iraq, Iran, Lybia, Syria, Afghanistan are worse off than before. A corrupt elite is made billionaire and the 99 percent of the country fell into abject poverty fighting to stay alive.

The countries became unstable, religious warlords rule locally with terror in the name of their flavor deity fighting over tribal lines. Human rights, not very strong before western intervention, are now completely ignored, torture is SOP.

Mission accomplished I believe.
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To be fair, Afghanistan hasn't been stable for a long time. Well before the Americans went in.
 
Hello Playball
I toured Afghanistan in the eighties.
Just after the King was ousted by the US and before the Russians came in.
Just like few centuries before, Kabul ruled only in name the provinces. But local tribes kept the country together.
Pashtos, Uzbeks, Kyrghyzi and Turkmeni lived relatively stable.
Online you will find pictures from Kabul. Women were at work, industry started up.
I still believe Afghanistan was more stable, safe and ordinary people had a better life then.
Now only a corrupt elite, living on the palm in Dubai, has a fantastic life. Rest of the country is worse off.
 
funinspace said:
Though I generally agree, it was hardly just the US deciding Assad had to go. And if anything, the US was at least initially only helping with logistics and such. Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar were probably the biggest initial donors to the mayhem. But today it is certainly a big party with seemingly half the world helping blow Syria apart...
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Qatar and Q8 acting on their own ? Yeah, like Poland was not pushed by the US to join the search for weapons of mass destruction in a coalition of the willing.

Turkey has all interest in keeping the conflict going sinc it allows them to settle score with the Kurds and get rich from buying oil from Daesh and delivering them weapons

Saudi is just keeping the match sunni-shia going with US approval.

Victim of all this : few millions of ordinary syrians displaced over ME and now desperately trying for a better life in Europe

And yes : they were way better off few years ago.
 
How do you solve a problem like Maria?
How do you catch a cloud and pin it down?
How do you find the word that means Maria?
A flibbertijibbet! A will-o'-the wisp! A clown!

Sorry. Don't know if it was intentional by the OP or not, but every time I read the subject header, this song starts playing in my head.

/derail
 
Saudi Arabia has called on Bashar al-Assad to give up power or be removed by force, raising the global stakes at a time when the Russians are shipping troops and military hardware to Syria in an effort to prop up its beleaguered leader.

The threat was made on Tuesday by Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister, Adel Al-Jubeir.

“There is no future for Assad in Syria,” Jubeir told journalists at the UN general assembly. “There are two options for a settlement in Syria. One option is a political process where there would be a transitional council. The other option is a military option, which also would end with the removal of Bashar al-Assad from power.”
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Guardian

I wonder where this is all going to lead.
 
Trausti said:
How do you solve a problem like Syria?
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Who is "you"?
In particular, what resources are available to the person or people trying to solve the problem? (counting only resources they (or "you") are willing to use)
 
Harry_Bosch said:
Cycad said:
Oh and how to stop it ?

What about immediately stopping our support to so called opposition who AND sell their US donated ammo and weapons to to ISIS AND divert a considerable percentage of the support to private accounts.

Maybe team up with Russia and force Bashar into a victory with immediate amnesty and without reprisals ?

Wasnt Syria stable and relatively prosperous BEFORE the US decided a change of regime was needed ?
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Holy crap! Do you read the new much? Or maybe you live in a cave??!
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His solution was very good actually.Putin is , again, going in to try to clean up America's mess.
 
Trausti said:
What say you?
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Trausti, if Islamic extremists could they would kill you. They would probably do it very painfully and broadcast it to the world. why? You wouldn't have a thought of doing it to them. They are pissed off because of your foreign policy. The foreign policy of people you keep voting for.
Yet you as an American are giving them weapons, either directly or indirectly. Why are you doing it?

Why Terrorists Hate America

Why do terrorists hate America enough to give up their lives in order to deal the country such mortal blows? Of course it,s not America the terrorists hate; it,s American foreign policy. It,s what the United States has done to the world in the past half century -- all the violence, the bombings, the depleted uranium, the cluster bombs, the assassinations, the promotion of torture, the overthrow of governments, and more. The terrorists -- whatever else they might be -- are also rational human beings; which is to say that in their own minds they have a rational justification for their actions. Most terrorists are people deeply concerned by what they see as social, political or religious injustice and hypocrisy, and the immediate grounds for their terrorism is often retaliation for an action of the United States.

Most Americans find it difficult in the extreme to accept the proposition that terrorist acts against the United States can be viewed as revenge for Washington,s policies abroad. They believe that the US is targeted because of its freedom, its democracy, its modernity, its wealth, or just being part of the West.
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The answers is for atheist and agnostic Americans to totally abandon the mistaken christian idea that America is gods chosen people, a "city on a hill".
It's a religious idea that needs to be discarded. This idea has religious roots that needs to be forgotten and replaced with something more humanistic.
And Americas' obsequious allies must become a friend to America rather than a dependent and subservient follower
 
Will Wiley said:
The answers is for atheist and agnostic Americans to totally abandon the mistaken christian idea that America is gods chosen people, a "city on a hill".
It's a religious idea that needs to be discarded. This idea has religious roots that needs to be forgotten and replaced with something more humanistic.
And Americas' obsequious allies must become a friend to America rather than a dependent and subservient follower
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Your plan seems to assume that the US is a functioning democracy and the people actually have power.

When this is actually looked at we find that the only Americans with any power are those with great wealth. The vast majority have absolutely no power at all to influence the government.

Foreign policy in the US is part of the Military Industrial Complex Eisenhower warned about. He warned us but today it is a lot worse than it was in his day.

Even rich individuals have very little power to influence this. Corporate leaders run the show and the president gets his advice on matters of foreign policy from them, and an ever hawkish military and intelligence force carries out orders.
 
Will Wiley said:
Trausti, if Islamic extremists could they would kill you. They would probably do it very painfully and broadcast it to the world. why? You wouldn't have a thought of doing it to them. They are pissed off because of your foreign policy. The foreign policy of people you keep voting for.
Yet you as an American are giving them weapons, either directly or indirectly. Why are you doing it?

Why Terrorists Hate America

Why do terrorists hate America enough to give up their lives in order to deal the country such mortal blows? Of course it,s not America the terrorists hate; it,s American foreign policy. It,s what the United States has done to the world in the past half century -- all the violence, the bombings, the depleted uranium, the cluster bombs, the assassinations, the promotion of torture, the overthrow of governments, and more. The terrorists -- whatever else they might be -- are also rational human beings; which is to say that in their own minds they have a rational justification for their actions. Most terrorists are people deeply concerned by what they see as social, political or religious injustice and hypocrisy, and the immediate grounds for their terrorism is often retaliation for an action of the United States.

Most Americans find it difficult in the extreme to accept the proposition that terrorist acts against the United States can be viewed as revenge for Washington,s policies abroad. They believe that the US is targeted because of its freedom, its democracy, its modernity, its wealth, or just being part of the West.
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Now all we lack is a coherent reason for why terrorists hate pretty much everyone else.
 
Trausti said:
The Syrian civil war, and Islamic warfare, keeps popping up in other threads. So why not give it a thread of its own?

View attachment 4277

What intervention, if any, should there be in Syria?

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I think the West should intervene to stop religious, ethnic, and cultural genocide.

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But there are no "good guys," just different shades of evil.

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While the Assad regime has certainly committed atrocities and human rights abuses, I think the West should swallow its pride and aid the regime in eradicating the Islamists.

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What say you?
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The best solution would have been to have not intervened in the first place. True as TSwizzle said the Americans couldn't organize a brew up in a Pissery. Britain and France who are poodled up to follow the US are also responsible for the genocide they have instigated in the region.

The best chance is to include the FSA KURDS AND ASSAD in talks to suspend the war effort and jointly work on removing ISIS. Then as best as possible (though I believe there will be several violations) is to try and foster a cease fire, followed by elections. One thing that could be on the table is autonomy for the Kurds within Syria but part of it. Any solution will be problematic and face failure. Persistence will be the important factor.
Russia must also be involved if America is involved.
 
Russia has started operations in Syria. Early reports, sketchy as they are, indicate targeting anti Assad rebels more than ISIS.
 
TSwizzle said:
Russia has started operations in Syria. Early reports, sketchy as they are, indicate targeting anti Assad rebels more than ISIS.
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How can this be surprisng. Putin continually regularly points to international law, and the importance of respecting the "legitimate" governments.
The Anti Assad rebels are an illegal outfit. The fact that the US supplies them with weapons doesn't change that. Putin had made it clear he wants to keep Assad in power, so of course he will defend Assad against illegal "terrorist" groups.

Thus Putin presents yet another problem for America. Will America keep supporting an illegal "terrorist" group?
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Hmm... so how do we fix a millennia old problem? .
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It's not a millennia old problem. It's because the west meddled, drew up borders and ousted leaders who didn't comply. This was in recent history.
Funny how the west won't take responsibility for the messes it creates
 
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