How do you solve a problem like Syria?

[+or-1]

I don't really know what the solution is or if there is a solution. I only know that our interference led (just in my lifetime) to the Iran Hostage Crisis, the Taliban, Qhaddafi, Daesh...

We don't learn from our mistakes. Clearly, neither does Russia.

 

[Jayjay]

Russia has started operations in Syria. Early reports, sketchy as they are, indicate targeting anti Assad rebels more than ISIS.

How can this be surprisng. Putin continually regularly points to international law, and the importance of respecting the "legitimate" governments.
The Anti Assad rebels are an illegal outfit. The fact that the US supplies them with weapons doesn't change that. Putin had made it clear he wants to keep Assad in power, so of course he will defend Assad against illegal "terrorist" groups.

Thus Putin presents yet another problem for America. Will America keep supporting an illegal "terrorist" group?

Yet Russia has no problem support illegal terrorist groups in Ukraine. What Putin says and what he does are two entirely different things. As for American support to said groups, it's been lukewarm and ineffective at best. A few night vision goggles aren't going to help them against Russian bombers.

 

[tupac chopra]

How can this be surprisng. Putin continually regularly points to international law, and the importance of respecting the "legitimate" governments.
The Anti Assad rebels are an illegal outfit. The fact that the US supplies them with weapons doesn't change that. Putin had made it clear he wants to keep Assad in power, so of course he will defend Assad against illegal "terrorist" groups.

Thus Putin presents yet another problem for America. Will America keep supporting an illegal "terrorist" group?

Yet Russia has no problem support illegal terrorist groups in Ukraine.

So what? Virtually all politicians are hypocrites. But I'm just explaining that Putin will not allow a terrorist group to operate in Syria. So the FSA is probably toast

What Putin says and what he does are two entirely different things.

So what?

As for American support to said groups, it's been lukewarm and ineffective at best. A few night vision goggles aren't going to help them against Russian bombers.

Remember Those ‘Moderate’ Syrian Rebels That The U.S. Armed? ISIS Got Some Of Those Weapons Too

As the Syrian Civil War has waged on over the past few years, the United States, along with Arab states such as Saudi Arabia and Qatar, decided to arm the Syrian rebels under the “Free Syrian Army” umbrella.

The shipments of former Yugoslavian Army weapons held by the Croatians, along with newly manufactured Croatian weapons, began in November 2012, according to The Telegraph UK. The weapons were flown out of Croatia on chartered flights to Jordan and then smuggled into Syria.

Fast forward to the rise of ISIS and their blitzkreig campaign across northern Iraq. An investigation by the arms control organization Conflict Armament Research has found that various U.S. supplied weapons have wound up in the hands of ISIS.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Russia has started operations in Syria. Early reports, sketchy as they are, indicate targeting anti Assad rebels more than ISIS.

How can this be surprisng. Putin continually regularly points to international law, and the importance of respecting the "legitimate" governments.
The Anti Assad rebels are an illegal outfit. The fact that the US supplies them with weapons doesn't change that. Putin had made it clear he wants to keep Assad in power, so of course he will defend Assad against illegal "terrorist" groups.

Thus Putin presents yet another problem for America. Will America keep supporting an illegal "terrorist" group?

Considering that it was the rebellion against Assad that created conditions for ISIS to form in the first place, I think that's kind of a moot point. The overall lesson from this is political change in a chaotic and unstable environment is rarely a change for the better.

If Putin helps Assad crush the rebellion, Assad will end up moving in on them from the west, Iran/Iraq from the east, add in military support from Turkey and Egypt. MAYBE a consensus emerges and we get something like a Middle Eastern Union or at least a mutual security treaty where those countries agree to coordinate in anti-terrorism efforts. Enlightened self interest might lead some of those leaders to realize that being a dick to their own citizens is part of the problem and they need to at least PRETEND to care about them (like the U.S. government does) for the sake of domestic peace.

 

[barbos]

Russia has started operations in Syria. Early reports, sketchy as they are, indicate targeting anti Assad rebels more than ISIS.

They are all anti Assad. But they say it was Al-Nusra. they were just closer, that's all.
And it appears that US sources confirmed that it was not FSA. Frankly,I doubt FSA exists at this point.

- - - Updated - - -

How can this be surprisng. Putin continually regularly points to international law, and the importance of respecting the "legitimate" governments.
The Anti Assad rebels are an illegal outfit. The fact that the US supplies them with weapons doesn't change that. Putin had made it clear he wants to keep Assad in power, so of course he will defend Assad against illegal "terrorist" groups.

Thus Putin presents yet another problem for America. Will America keep supporting an illegal "terrorist" group?

Yet Russia has no problem support illegal terrorist groups in Ukraine. What Putin says and what he does are two entirely different things. As for American support to said groups, it's been lukewarm and ineffective at best. A few night vision goggles aren't going to help them against Russian bombers.

No, Russia does not support Poroshenko and Right Sector.

 

[TSwizzle]

Iran ready to join in and has sent ground troops in. Russia offers to stomp on ISIS in Iraq. The solution is going to be interesting.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Holy crap! Do you read the new much? Or maybe you live in a cave??!

Actually I live in the Middle East.

I rely on BBC news, Le Monde and 3 arabic newspapers.

And you sir ?

Any you think that Syria was "stable" before the US wanted Assad to leave?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Holy crap! Do you read the new much? Or maybe you live in a cave??!

His solution was very good actually.Putin is , again, going in to try to clean up America's mess.

Sounds good to me. I'd rather that we get the hell out of the ME and stay out. I'm sure that Putin won't have any problems!!!

 

[Harry Bosch]

Hmm... so how do we fix a millennia old problem? .

It's not a millennia old problem. It's because the west meddled, drew up borders and ousted leaders who didn't comply. This was in recent history.
Funny how the west won't take responsibility for the messes it creates

The ME started falling behind the west in about the 1400's. The west started adding to their misery just after WW1 after we redrew their boundaries according to how we wanted the countries to align.

 

[untermensche]

It's not a millennia old problem. It's because the west meddled, drew up borders and ousted leaders who didn't comply. This was in recent history.
Funny how the west won't take responsibility for the messes it creates

The ME started falling behind the west in about the 1400's. The west started adding to their misery just after WW1 after we redrew their boundaries according to how we wanted the countries to align.

When you say "falling behind" you mean, militarily.

Which of course translates to economically, since the West used it's military power to take and exploit.

But then the game changer, oil.

That is when the modern history of the ME begins. When it is discovered it contains incredible wealth.

Then suddenly places like England are very interested and begin poking their heavy hand into the region with a purpose.

The madness culminates with the removal of the elected leader of Iran. That event very much shapes the current picture of the ME today.

 

[TSwizzle]

It looks like the short term "solution" is for Assad to remain in power. After that, Russia will probably determine what happens next and not the USA/Europe.

Moscow's intervention will seal Bashar al-Assad in place and establish Moscow as an essential partner for almost any international problem.

Telegraph

It is equally irresponsible to manipulate extremist groups and use them to achieve your political goals, hoping that later you’ll find a way to get rid of them or somehow eliminate them … Gentlemen, the people you are dealing with are cruel but they are not dumb. They are as smart as you are. So, it’s a big question: who’s playing who here?

An interesting question.

I wonder when Turkey will step into the mix.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why would Turkey want to step into that mess?

 

[Playball40]

Hello Playball
I toured Afghanistan in the eighties.
Just after the King was ousted by the US and before the Russians came in.
Just like few centuries before, Kabul ruled only in name the provinces. But local tribes kept the country together.
Pashtos, Uzbeks, Kyrghyzi and Turkmeni lived relatively stable.
Online you will find pictures from Kabul. Women were at work, industry started up.
I still believe Afghanistan was more stable, safe and ordinary people had a better life then.
Now only a corrupt elite, living on the palm in Dubai, has a fantastic life. Rest of the country is worse off.

How is that possible? The Russians "came in" in the 70's.

 

[TSwizzle]

Why would Turkey want to step into that mess?

They will have their reasons.

 

[Axulus]

The ME started falling behind the west in about the 1400's. The west started adding to their misery just after WW1 after we redrew their boundaries according to how we wanted the countries to align.

When you say "falling behind" you mean, militarily.

Which of course translates to economically, since the West used it's military power to take and exploit.

But then the game changer, oil.

That is when the modern history of the ME begins. When it is discovered it contains incredible wealth.

Then suddenly places like England are very interested and begin poking their heavy hand into the region with a purpose.

The madness culminates with the removal of the elected leader of Iran. That event very much shapes the current picture of the ME today.

The ME began a precipitous decline after the brutal crushing received from Gengis Khan's armies. It is said that Iran's population didn't reach the same levels again until the 1900's.

 

[Jayjay]

Why would Turkey want to step into that mess?

Turkey is thought to be if not supporting, at least sympathetic to some of the groups that Assad and Russia are now bombing.

 

[tupac chopra]

How can this be surprisng. Putin continually regularly points to international law, and the importance of respecting the "legitimate" governments.
The Anti Assad rebels are an illegal outfit. The fact that the US supplies them with weapons doesn't change that. Putin had made it clear he wants to keep Assad in power, so of course he will defend Assad against illegal "terrorist" groups.

Thus Putin presents yet another problem for America. Will America keep supporting an illegal "terrorist" group?

Considering that it was the rebellion against Assad that created conditions for ISIS to form in the first place, I think that's kind of a moot point.

Without the illegal invasion of Iraq based on lies, there is no ISIS. ISIS formed in Iraq not Syria, and is directly related to the mess in Iraq.
America has been destabilizing Syria and arming "terrorist " groups there and it is this that allowed ISIS to get established htere

 

[whichphilosophy]

Considering that it was the rebellion against Assad that created conditions for ISIS to form in the first place, I think that's kind of a moot point.

Without the illegal invasion of Iraq based on lies, there is no ISIS. ISIS formed in Iraq not Syria.

ISIS has now formed in several countries.

 

[Trausti]

Considering that it was the rebellion against Assad that created conditions for ISIS to form in the first place, I think that's kind of a moot point.

Without the illegal invasion of Iraq based on lies, there is no ISIS. ISIS formed in Iraq not Syria.

ISIS is simply the current form of Tawhid wal-Jihad, which was created in 1999 with the original intention of overthrowing the Jordanian monarchy. The Islamist have been around for a long time and their top target, other than hating Israel, is the Arab dictatorships because these are viewed as impeding a return of the caliphate. The rise of the Islamists is arguable due more to the failure of pan-Arabism to dislodge Israel than any meddling by the West.

 

[tupac chopra]

Without the illegal invasion of Iraq based on lies, there is no ISIS. ISIS formed in Iraq not Syria.

ISIS is simply the current form of Tawhid wal-Jihad, which was created in 1999 with the original intention of overthrowing the Jordanian monarchy. The Islamist have been around for a long time and their top target, other than hating Israel, is the Arab dictatorships because these are viewed as impeding a return of the caliphate. The rise of the Islamists is arguable due more to the failure of pan-Arabism to dislodge Israel than any meddling by the West.

As I said before. Americans (or some of them) don't mind bombing places, bombing weddings, invading countries based on lies, destabilizing, but won't take any responsibility for it what it leads to