How should I respond to persons who embrace trump's voting conspiracy?

[T.G.G. Moogly]

This is a serious question. Sure, a flippant remark can get the message across, but what about family members and friends that you will continue to share a relationship with? Or even a new acquaintance who espouses same? What is the best response?

I really want to ask them if they've spoken to a professional about their present psychosis. Would that be going too far?

 

[Keith&Co.]

This is a serious question. Sure, a flippant remark can get the message across, but what about family members and friends that you will continue to share a relationship with? Or even a new acquaintance who espouses same? What is the best response?

I really want to ask them if they've spoken to a professional about their present psychosis. Would that be going too far?

I would think too far, yes. I would frame it more that they should stop encouraging Giuliani's hallucinations or the man will never get the help he needs.

 

[Valjean]

I'd ask where he gets his information, and why he believes it's reliable when every other legitimate news source, liberal to conservative, domestic and international, believes there was no significant fraud.

 

[ideologyhunter]

They are most likely too far gone to dialogue with. Consider that Trump set this lie up months and months ago, in broad daylight, caught on video: "The only way they can win is to rig the election." He had no evidence then, he has none now, and he was all along polling ten or so points behind Biden. If these people you encounter can't process that -- if this fat old carney can fool them into thinking they're looking at a hero and statesman --what is the point in having a political discussion with them? For most of them, their mantra is that the news media are nothing but liars. They have turned off the part of the brain that is able to direct sense and scrutiny and character judgment when it comes to the orange one. I have neighbors who are Trumpies. They know I'm not one; my Biden sign had a hand-lettered Make American Sane Again addendum. We talk about dogs, local sales, and the friggin' weather.

 

[laughing dog]

This is a serious question. Sure, a flippant remark can get the message across, but what about family members and friends that you will continue to share a relationship with? Or even a new acquaintance who espouses same? What is the best response?

I really want to ask them if they've spoken to a professional about their present psychosis. Would that be going too far?

I don't think it is too far, but it is unhelpful.

I think just ignore it for now. I would wait and see. If they are fundamentally rational, time will help them overcome their disappointment. Perhaps time will open their minds and hearts to the notion they need professional help. Or maybe they are simply beyond hope on this matter.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

1) Why did almost all of the previous court cases exclude claims of fraud, some cases explicitly saying it wasn't a fraud case?

1b) And when Giuliani did include it in PA, why did the Judge excoriate them for not including relevant support for such a claim? In fact, even Tucker Carlson is dubious!

That is all I have.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

1) Why did almost all of the previous court cases exclude claims of fraud, some cases explicitly saying it wasn't a fraud case?

1b) And when Giuliani did include it in PA, why did the Judge excoriate them for not including relevant support for such a claim? In fact, even Tucker Carlson is dubious!

That is all I have.

Rational exchange doesn't work because believing in such a conspiracy is not rational. Talking about this and that issue such as judges and court cases gets nowhere fast. That's why I asked the question.

I was thinking of maybe asking, "Hey, lots of people don't think NASA's Apollo moon landings ever occurred. Do you think those people are nuts, or at least pretty damn goofy?"

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

1) Why did almost all of the previous court cases exclude claims of fraud, some cases explicitly saying it wasn't a fraud case?

1b) And when Giuliani did include it in PA, why did the Judge excoriate them for not including relevant support for such a claim? In fact, even Tucker Carlson is dubious!

That is all I have.

Rational exchange doesn't work because believing in such a conspiracy is not rational. Talking about this and that issue such as judges and court cases gets nowhere fast. That's why I asked the question.

The only angle is asking why Trump's lawyers didn't bringing it up in case after case after case in several states. They'll have an answer for that too, though. 'Getting ducks in a row, then going after the big one.' But really the only angle is that, if this is so true, why aren't his lawyers arguing it?!

I was thinking of maybe asking, "Hey, lots of people don't think NASA's Apollo moon landings ever occurred. Do you think those people are nuts, or at least pretty damn goofy?"

The only way to really go is to suggest that mentioning Trump is a bad idea. You didn't mention explosive diarrhea, they should refrain from bringing up the election and Trump.

 

[Ruth Harris]

Unfortunately, I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing I can say to those people that will make the slightest difference in how they see things. I did try to give the usual rational reasons that others have shared, but it had no effect at all other than making them more angry and intense.

So at this point, there are some family members on snooze in Facebook because I just can't take any more of their angry screeching. I have to say that it has improved my mental health considerably to no longer read what they are pushing.

Ruth

 

[Shadowy Man]

You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.

 

[Bronzeage]

This is a serious question. Sure, a flippant remark can get the message across, but what about family members and friends that you will continue to share a relationship with? Or even a new acquaintance who espouses same? What is the best response?

I really want to ask them if they've spoken to a professional about their present psychosis. Would that be going too far?

That's an easy one. Tell them to call the FBI and report any and all suspicions they have, and be sure to include names, dates and locations of any incident of voter fraud.

It won't make a difference, but they usually stop talking to you.

Consider the number of people who believe UFOs are extraterrestrial beings who have entered Earth's atmosphere to observe us, compared to the number of people who have actually seen a strange object in the sky and they didn't know what it was.

 

[Angry Floof]

This is a serious question. Sure, a flippant remark can get the message across, but what about family members and friends that you will continue to share a relationship with? Or even a new acquaintance who espouses same? What is the best response?

I really want to ask them if they've spoken to a professional about their present psychosis. Would that be going too far?

I tend to ignore them as much as possible, but sometimes I ask them how they know to believe Trump, what is their method of determining what's true or false.

When RVonse said here the other day that there's too much misinformation out there to really know what's true, he was just expressing what every Trump supporter has been indoctrinated with - the belief that going with what resonates in you is the only option in this confusing world of lies.

Right wing ideology appeals to the worst cognitive tendencies, one of which is lack of self reflection or examination of your own assumptions, so asking them to explain exactly how they come to figure out what's true, or at least trustworthy if not 100% true, in my experience, they typically run away. But you've planted the suggestion that there are sensible methods for determining truth even in a world of lies, and some of them might go look for those methods if only so they can pretend to use them next time a smartypantsy libturd puts them on the spot.

 

[SLD]

Ask them if they are going to fight back violently. After all this is the most heinous crime in our nation’s history! We’ve lost our democracy! We must fight this. Why hasn’t tRump called on his supporters to arm themselves?

 

[Swammerdami]

Consider the number of people who believe UFOs are extraterrestrial beings who have entered Earth's atmosphere to observe us, compared to the number of people who have actually seen a strange object in the sky and they didn't know what it was.

IIRC the percentage of Americans who believe we've been attacked by aliens from another solar system PLUS the percentage who believe in the literal truth of Genesis sum to more than 100%. IOW some Americans believe both (I assume almost all of these are also Trump voters.) I've wondered when, in the Six Days of Creation, Yahweh set up the alien world(s). Thursday afternoon?

 

[Keith&Co.]

IOW some Americans believe both

Just not at the same time. Some people believe contradictory things in America, by not considerring two thoughts together.
A big contradiction recently demonstrated (also by Trump supporters) is
A) America's superiority over Muslims because WE respect women
B) Hillary Clinton lost because the cunt is an evil bitch

Or,
C) presidents shouldn't pick a SCOTUS judge 8 months before....
D) voters picked the pres exactly to pick a SCOTUS judge 8 days before....

 

[starwater]

They have gotten so use to Trumps lies, it feels dependable, it’s what they want to hear, and they don’t care what he does because they believe that he is part of the greater power to make their lives better. Confronting them with the truth and facts means nothing, they will believe what they want to believe. It makes them feel better. It’s fear based living.

Asking them to explain what they are so afraid of may be a tactic, and truly listening and acknowledging their fears may be a start.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

They have gotten so use to Trumps lies, it feels dependable, it’s what they want to hear, and they don’t care what he does because they believe that he is part of the greater power to make their lives better. Confronting them with the truth and facts means nothing, they will believe what they want to believe. It makes them feel better. It’s fear based living.

Asking them to explain what they are so afraid of may be a tactic, and truly listening and acknowledging their fears may be a start.

I think I've decided on humor. Got some good ideas from other threads. But humor with a straight face, of course.

Tell them what they want to hear, how I stole the election along with all the other crafty liberals, how we used Hugo Chavez's voting machines and algorithms that allowed us to vote multiple times, etc. We got away with the fraud! It's everything they believe.

 

[Keith&Co.]

truly listening and acknowledging their fears may be a start.

One of their fears is that when white people become the minority, the majority will be treating white people the way they have treated minorities.
I have a difficulty acknowledging this fear without, you know, laughing. "Wait, it'll be bad, then, but you did it, and are still doing it, and think it's righteous?"

 

[Szuchow]

There is no reasoning with such people just as there is no reasoning with right wingers in Poland.

 

[hyzer]

They have gotten so use to Trumps lies, it feels dependable, it’s what they want to hear, and they don’t care what he does because they believe that he is part of the greater power to make their lives better. Confronting them with the truth and facts means nothing, they will believe what they want to believe. It makes them feel better. It’s fear based living.

Asking them to explain what they are so afraid of may be a tactic, and truly listening and acknowledging their fears may be a start.

I think I've decided on humor. Got some good ideas from other threads. But humor with a straight face, of course.

Tell them what they want to hear, how I stole the election along with all the other crafty liberals, how we used Hugo Chavez's voting machines and algorithms that allowed us to vote multiple times, etc. We got away with the fraud! It's everything they believe.

Representin' the Deep State baby!