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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

article said:
Ejecting Russia from the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) network could cripple Russia’s ability to trade with most of the world and deal a heavy blow to its economy.

Unfortunately, the pain would not be spread evenly. Some NATO members would be significantly hurt, others, not so much. Hence, paralysis.
At some point though, the pain caused by failure to eliminate Putin will exceed the pain caused by kicking him off the SWIFT network, even though removing Russia from SWIFT would make it difficult (impossible) for European creditors to get money back from Russian debtors and banks.
 

Assholes blaring truck horns in Canada at night v Elected President pulling a John Hancock in Ukraine

Really difficult to determine which is tougher. Nevermind the Mayor of Kviv would flatten Putin in a fight, even in Putin's prime.
 
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There's no shortage of heroics!
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classicalmusicdaily said:
Her name is Elena Kovalskaya. Today she resigned from the position of director of the Moscow State Theater "Vsevolod Meyerhold". In a post on social media, she wrote: "Friends, as a protest against the Russian invasion of Ukraine, I am resigning from the position of director of the state theater. It is impossible to work for a murderer and get paid by him."
To understand the bravery of her act, it should be noted that the Mayakovsky Theater in Moscow had earlier banned its actors from commenting in any way on the Russian invasion of Ukraine, while the city's cultural department reported any negative comments as "betrayal." .
"We cannot be silent about this. We only have this left to say: 'No to war,'" the performing arts venue said in the social media post. "War is much more than disrespect for a person, and much more horrifying. War is the death of a person, it is the killing of people."
The theater also thanked Kovalskaya for her "courage."
 
You call them fascists. OK. Let’s accept that for a minute. Did they launch an invasion of neighboring countries,
This is weird and very specific metric you use. OK I will play. I believe US invaded Mexico in the past, Mexico is a neighboring country.....

I believe the word you are looking for is "touché"
Ukraine invaded Mexico? When was that?

or has Russia invaded the US to free it?
 
Does that mean that present day Poland and Lithuania have a right to reclaim Russian land all the way up to the gates of Moscow?
I reckon so... at the very least they should claim Kaliningrad and split it up between them...
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Noooooo! Königsberg, now misnamed Kaliningrad, belongs to neither the Ruskies nor the Pollacks. It has belonged to Preußen since 1525. Founded by the Deutscher Ritterorden in 1255, it is German by birthright! As are Pommern, Vorpommern, Posen, Danzig and several other areas covered in ice in winter and filled with mud in summer.

While I'm at it, Elsaß-Lothringen must be returned to the Fatherland *clicks heels*, as does the Sudetenland. No more demands beyond that. Promise!

Ostmark was a huge mistake. The only good things coming out of it were Sachertorten. We could make them ourselves, but why bother when Schwarzwälder Kirschtorten are so much better? Tirol or Ungarn can have it for free if they take Bavaria off us as well. Bavarians are the missing link between Austrians and humans. Want proof? Here's proof: Hitler was born in Austria, and Bavaria kickstarted his career!

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You call them fascists. OK. Let’s accept that for a minute. Did they launch an invasion of neighboring countries,
This is weird and very specific metric you use. OK I will play. I believe US invaded Mexico in the past, Mexico is a neighboring country.....

I believe the word you are looking for is "touché"
Ukraine invaded Mexico? When was that?

Probably right before the US invaded Ukraine. :D
 
:staffwarn:
The staff is getting annoyed by a great many of these posts.
We understand that this is a huge issue and valued members are getting emotional, for very good reasons. But there are still TOU.

Please don't make us enforce those TOU. Thanks for your cooperation.
Tom
 
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. . .
This was predicated on the assumption that Russia would become a “normal” nation along Western lines, but that obviously did not happen. Why not?

It seems to me that one big reason is that the Austrian school economists, the Libertarians, the Ayn Randites and suchlike idiots pushed for, and got, an instant, “shock therapy” transition to capitalism in Russia. This had devastating consequences, with mass unemployment, soaring inflation and other defects of the dog-eat-dog doctrine of economics. Russia went through a decade of penury and it soured tens of millions on the Western economic, social and political model. Then Putin came along in 1999 and in the next decade Russia began to recover, mainly because of the energy sector. Thus millions put their (misplaced) trust in Herr Putin. Even today polls show that about half of Russians long for a return of the cosseting system of shared scarcity that prevailed under the Soviets.

Had Russia transitioned gradually into a quasi-Western system with Russian characteristics, and had it adopted a Scandinavian model of social arrangements (which the U.S. ought to do as well), things might have been very different and Russia might well today be a more or less “normal” country with a decent president and authentic elections — and posing no threats to its neighbors.

Yes, Russia became miserable after the fall of the Soviet Union, with economic, social and health outlooks all plummeting. This was a tragedy. Just as Germany in the 1930's responded to economic malaise by supporting Hitler, so Putin rose to power in hopes for a return to the economic strength under communism.

And "shock therapy" or "Washington Consensus" economics was in vogue during the 1990's: This is often called "neoliberalism," but "hypercapitalism" is a more descriptive term. Private ownership was so desirable in hyper-capitalist thinking that Western advisors considered it irrelevant if the "new owners" were simply whichever gangsters had the most machine guns.

It may be unknowable what trajectory Russia would have followed if they hadn't been drenched in right-wing hyper-capitalist advice from Western bankers, businessmen and politicians, but that drenching certainly didn't help.
 
To anybody that doubted that the people of Ukraine would stand up for their country, it is Ukraine's turn to talk, and it is your turn to listen.

I hope that leaders in the Chinese government are watching as these events unfold. China is one of my favorite countries in the world, and I even support the PEACEFUL and VOLUNTARY reunification of Tiawan, someday. However, I want the people in that government to understand why the people of Ukraine are fighting so desperately to be a part of the European Union and to resist falling under the domination of a Russian proxy government. I want China to have the kind of success that the European Union has gained. I want them to be a prosperous and beloved nation, and I want them to help lead us to the stars. I want China to succeed, but I want them to do it the right way.

To the good men and women in the Chinese Communist Party, do you want to know what happens when you have made your government answerable to the people? When you have made your government answerable to the people, then your government is everywhere. Your authority is everywhere. It is in the will of every single human being that can righteously take a share of credit for your nation's successes and bear the shame of your nation's failures. What happens to their country is therefore attached to their natural sense of honor. When the dignity of their country is threatened by your enemies, then they will fight with unhinged savagery until their nation is free again. People will do strange and mad things in the name of their honor.

I deeply admire China, and for the most part, I think that their government has been a good one. However, they would do well to follow the wisdom of the Father of the Nation, Dr. Sun Yat-sen. There might be people in the Chinese government that disagree with me, and I am certainly not their master. There is no need for them to answer to me, but I opine this with the humility of a self-acknowledged foreign admirer: I believe that Dr. Sun Yat-sen could have told them why the people of Ukraine are fighting so valiantly for their country's independence from Russia.

Overall, I believe that the Chinese Communist Party has shown a depth of wisdom in their decisions, and I believe they deserve to be praised for realizing that the tyranny of a disease is worse than the righteous authority of a government to protect its people from a hideous parasite. In many ways, I believe that the government of China has acted more wisely than my own over the past generation. Inequality has decreased in China during a generation where my own nation has experienced serious political problems due to a terrifying increase of inequality. China's economy has grown rapidly in a time when my own country's economy has failed to reach its true potential. I do not pretend for a moment that my own country's government has more to teach China than to learn from them. Nevertheless, I believe that if they would only scorn the blindness of hubris, then they could also learn to tap into the fearsome power of minquan.

To the wise men, women, and queers that participate in the glorious government of one of my favorite countries, I will concede that you are right to fear these characters, but I would meekly opine that your enemies might fear them more, and may the people of Ukraine teach you to believe that I am right:

民權

May China learn the wisdom contained within those characters, and may my own nation learn more still from China.

Slava demokratiyi!
 
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Remarkable picture above of women preparing Molotov cocktails for the incoming Russians. Amazing! Reportedly, these women are nurses, teachers, accountants and etc preparing to fight Russian special forces coming from them. I think that Putin has dramatically and tragically underestimated the courage of the Ukranian people.
 
The NYT has pictures of school teachers getting their rifles and getting into trucks to deploy to some area. Rifle, grim face, fluffy scarf.


My thoughts are with them today.
 
The NYT has pictures of school teachers getting their rifles and getting into trucks to deploy to some area. Rifle, grim face, fluffy scarf.


My thoughts are with them today.
Reportedly, the Russians are sending in their special forces (paratroopers) to do the street by street fighting. There will be many dead civilians after tonight. Their courage is inspiring.
 
Witaj! Welcome to barbos's Zone of Silence. :censored: You made the mistake of telling him that the fascists are in the Kremlin rather than Ukraine. Calling a Russian or Ukrainian a fascist is one of the most insulting things you can do in that part of the world, and that is why he makes a big point of branding all those in Ukraine who oppose Putin Nazis and fascists. So those who wish to stay off his dreaded ignore list should not tell him that the leaders of his beloved country are fascists or Nazis.

Now that you are among fellow barbos-designated "trolls", you can actually have an intelligent conversation about what is happening in Ukraine and still comment on his posts. His responses to others will be the same as they would have been to your posts, so you won't miss anything. And you are now an elite member of a growing community. :)
 
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