How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

Any Jews, French, Spaniards, Portuguese, Turks here?
Well, here is news for you, you are ukrainians, so start leaning ukrainian and prepare to be ruled by your new president Elensky.


This is not a joke.

 

[zorq]

Even Roger Waters is lecturing your corrupted media.
Does not look good for neocon scam.

LOL. Roger Waters has always been a kook, and never been an intellectual or a scholar. His noteworthy achievement was to get kicked out of a rock band. It's so on brand for you to think he's a trustworthy authority on politics, or international relations. Tell me more about how the comments on youtube videos are trustworthy.

 

[zorq]

Any Jews, French, Spaniards, Portuguese, Turks here?
Well, here is news for you, you are ukrainians, so start leaning ukrainian and prepare to be ruled by your new president Elensky.


This is not a joke.

LOL. You don't think it is a joke, but I think you are hilarious. You and your idiot media masters are just as ignorant of science as you are of politics.

Ask any anthropologist where the people of Europe came from. Or just crack a fucking book once in a while. Fuck! The shit you post can be so stupid.

Show

 

[Jayjay]

‘Absolute evil’: inside the Russian prison camp where dozens of Ukrainians burned to death

Entrepreneur Anna Vorosheva accuses Moscow of murder after spending 100 days in the Olenivka detention centre

www.theguardian.com

Screams from soldiers being tortured, overflowing cells, inhuman conditions, a regime of intimidation and murder. Inedible gruel, no communication with the outside world, and days marked off with a home-made calendar written on a box of tea.

This, according to a prisoner who was there, is what conditions are like inside Olenivka, the notorious detention centre outside Donetsk where dozens of Ukrainian soldiers burned to death in a horrific episode late last month while in Russian captivity.

Anna Vorosheva – a 45-year-old Ukrainian entrepreneur – gave a harrowing account to the Observer of her time inside the jail. She spent 100 days in Olenivka after being detained in mid-March at a checkpoint run by the pro-Russian Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) in eastern Ukraine.

How do you know it's not a lie? And it is a lie.

She's not the only one saying so.

Former Ukraine prison detainees doubt Russia's deadly blast story

Even before the deadly blast that killed at least 53 Ukrainian soldiers on Friday, the Olenivka prison in the country's separatist-controlled eastern Donetsk province was known to human rights groups as a lawless place where pro-Russian forces hold civilians flagged as potential enemy...

www.spokesman.com

In March, nearly three dozen humanitarian aid workers volunteering to rescue civilians from Mariupol ended up in Olenivka because Russian officers and separatist forces considered them suspect. They were freed barely two weeks ago, and their accounts of conditions and treatment inside the prison bolster Kyiv’s accusations that the Ukrainian fighters killed were deliberately moved to an abandoned warehouse there - a location that then was destroyed.

(...)


Three volunteer aid workers, who spent about 100 days in Olenivka, told The Washington Post that the building identified by Moscow as “a detention center” was located in a separate area of the complex that had not been used to hold prisoners.

“I can tell you definitively that the video doesn’t show the prison barracks, and [the demolished building is] not part of the living quarters,” said Evgeny Maliarchuk, who was arrested by Russians in Mariupol while trying to evacuate about 20 civilians in a bus he had bought and driven from Kyiv.

(...)

Two of the aid volunteers told The Post that they had heard “cries, awful sounds” while at Olenivka, where cells designed for a half-dozen people were sometimes packed with as many as 30. The group left the prison in mid-July after a grass-roots campaign by a European initiative won their release.

A man named Dmitry, whom The Post is identifying only by his first name because of concerns for the safety of relatives living under Russian occupation, said he spent weeks in a cage in the prison’s detention center and witnessed multiple “initiation rituals” of newly arrived Ukrainian soldiers.

The new prisoners were told to disrobe and kneel with their heads pressed against a wall as guards beat them with batons, according to Dmitry. Then they were forced to crawl upstairs before being pushed into their cells by a kick in the back, he said.

The thing about corroborating evidence is that when every bit of it - multiple witness statements, intercepted phone calls where Russians themselves say the facility was bombed from the inside, the lack of damage not being consistent with HIMARS, locals not hearing or seeing any rockets, no Russian guards being injured, and Russia refusing to let UN see the bodies or talk to the survivors -- points to the same conclusion, that conclusion is probably true.

Now your turn. What evidence do you have that any of the former prisoners are lying about the torture? My guess is nothing. You're just parroting what some shit-for-brains Russian youtubers.

 

[Jayjay]

Scandal in France, apparently some of the phone conversations between Macron and Putin just before Special Military Operation were leaked. According to them, Macron was not aware about Minsk Agreement and this is weird, but reportedly, he knew about Kiev regime plans on invading DNR/LNR and told Putin no to react to it
Instead Putin recognized these republics and started SMO.

As usual, that's not accurate. Here's the leak from last month (in French, but you can use Google translate to get an idea, not sure if original Russian is available anywhere):

Emmanuel Macron à Vladimir Poutine, quatre jours avant la guerre: «Je ne sais pas où ton juriste a appris le droit» - Le Temps

Une conversation entre Emmanuel Macron et Vladimir Poutine a été dévoilée dans un documentaire. A cette occasion, le président français propose une rencontre à Genève avec Joe Biden. Elle n’aura jamais lieu. Le verbatim d’un dialogue ferme

www.letemps.ch

It's clear that Putin was spouting off his own nonsense. It's Putin who doesn't seem to understand what the Minsk agreements mean, and there is nothing there about Zelensky planning on invading the DNR/LNR.

 

[Patooka]

he knew about Kiev regime plans on invading DNR/LNR

That's a neat trick, considering they didn't exist before Putin waged his illegal war.

 

[ZiprHead]

‘Absolute evil’: inside the Russian prison camp where dozens of Ukrainians burned to death

Entrepreneur Anna Vorosheva accuses Moscow of murder after spending 100 days in the Olenivka detention centre

www.theguardian.com

Screams from soldiers being tortured, overflowing cells, inhuman conditions, a regime of intimidation and murder. Inedible gruel, no communication with the outside world, and days marked off with a home-made calendar written on a box of tea.

This, according to a prisoner who was there, is what conditions are like inside Olenivka, the notorious detention centre outside Donetsk where dozens of Ukrainian soldiers burned to death in a horrific episode late last month while in Russian captivity.

Anna Vorosheva – a 45-year-old Ukrainian entrepreneur – gave a harrowing account to the Observer of her time inside the jail. She spent 100 days in Olenivka after being detained in mid-March at a checkpoint run by the pro-Russian Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) in eastern Ukraine.

How do you know it's not a lie? And it is a lie.

How do you know it's a lie?

 

[Elixir]

How I know it’s not a lie:
From the start, Putler has warned of dire consequences if Ukraine attacks Russia, including Crimea. Apparently those dire consequences were torturing prisoners, murdering civilians, destroying hospitals and schools… and the Ukranians have determined that Pootey’s boys are already doing that, so they have nothing to lose. So why not start by blowing up the Russian airbase in Crimea? Next, look for strikes in the east and maybe even the north, in Belarus.
Russia bit off more than they can chew and now they’re going to choke on it. Maybe to death.

 

[Rhea]

your new president Elensky.

I am wondering if this is some weird attempt to glorify the “Z” usede by the Russians and erase it from Ukaraine somehow? To, like disrespect Zelenskyy by stealing his Z?


What’s up with the “Elensky”?
It’s funny, but, its use kinda also screams “impotent bully” about the person using it.

 

[Elixir]

It’s funny, but, its use kinda also screams “impotent bully”

...aka "Putler".

 

[marc]

Well, now they've done it. The attack (sabotage? Accidental munitions explosion? excuse as to why it wasn't an attack #3?) on the airbase in Crimea is ruining the Russian citizen's beach vacation

Russian Beachgoers Flee Crimea In Panic After Ukrainian Missile Attack

Dramatic footage filmed in Crimea showed panicked Russian beachgoers running after an explosion at a nearby military airfield.

crooksandliars.com

 

[Rhea]

That’s going to be an interesting bit of conversation around russia. Many will be “look we’re being persecuted by nazis!” And some will be, “oh shit we don’t want our sons in this war,” and some will be “there really is a war, isn’t there?”

 

[steve_bank]

Scandal in France, apparently some of the phone conversations between Macron and Putin just before Special Military Operation were leaked. According to them, Macron was not aware about Minsk Agreement and this is weird, but reportedly, he knew about Kiev regime plans on invading DNR/LNR and told Putin no to react to it
Instead Putin recognized these republics and started SMO.

As usual, that's not accurate. Here's the leak from last month (in French, but you can use Google translate to get an idea, not sure if original Russian is available anywhere):

Emmanuel Macron à Vladimir Poutine, quatre jours avant la guerre: «Je ne sais pas où ton juriste a appris le droit» - Le Temps

Une conversation entre Emmanuel Macron et Vladimir Poutine a été dévoilée dans un documentaire. A cette occasion, le président français propose une rencontre à Genève avec Joe Biden. Elle n’aura jamais lieu. Le verbatim d’un dialogue ferme

www.letemps.ch

It's clear that Putin was spouting off his own nonsense. It's Putin who doesn't seem to understand what the Minsk agreements mean, and there is nothing there about Zelensky planning on invading the DNR/LNR.

He understands. He just ignores it like any garden variety dictator.

I listened to a a Russian ex pat who worked with and knew Putin. To put it in context Putin sees himself in the line of past Russian conquerors.

He proclaimed form the start of his public lfe e greatest tragedy of the last century was the fall of the Soviet Union, and his goal was restoration of the glory and power of the Soviets.

 

[TV and credit cards]

.

Well, now they've done it. The attack (sabotage? Accidental munitions explosion? excuse as to why it wasn't an attack #3?) on the airbase in Crimea is ruining the Russian citizen's beach vacation

Russian Beachgoers Flee Crimea In Panic After Ukrainian Missile Attack

Dramatic footage filmed in Crimea showed panicked Russian beachgoers running after an explosion at a nearby military airfield.

crooksandliars.com

Sabotage. Accident. An explosion by any other name at a Russian air base is just as sweet.

 

[Elixir]

Funny how arms sent to Ukraine causes careless smoking by Russians. They’re probably loading up on cigarettes in anticipation of increasing numbers of accidental explosions.

 

[steve_bank]

I would not discount unrest in the Russian military. How the war has gone is undoubtedly widely known among the enlisted ranks.

There may even be an anti Putin faction among the officers.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Kyiv says nine warplanes destroyed in Crimea at the airbase.

also

China has accused the United States of being the “main instigator” of the Ukraine crisis, saying Washington’s “ultimate goal is to exhaust and crush Russia”.

Darn. They found us out.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Jayjay]

I think Moskva was more significant, but that's splitting hairs.