How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Jimmy Higgins]

На Украине разворачивается битва за учебник истории, в котором усмотрели пропаганду русского мира. Новости. Первый канал

Все дело в фактах. Киевских историков, например, профессора Брехуненко, возмутило, что это Россия, например, основала Одессу или Херсон.

www.1tv.ru

Ukrainian historian with a hilarious last name outraged that someone dared to write that Odessa was founded by Russia.

His last name can be translated from to english as "Bullshitter" or "Liar"
You can't make this shit up.

Actually, that you could.

 

[barbos]

Actually, that you could.

What do you mean?
He has a hilarious last name. Now, It is very possible that meaning is slightly different in Ukrainian but in russian it is utterly hilarious.

 

[laughing dog]

History mostly bores me. Usually about a bunch of men starting wars with each other.

The history that I was taught was that the US entered WWII after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. The US joined WWI after the Germans kept attacking submarines and was trying to get Mexico to join forces with Germany.

Wow, I am "impressed". The average american I think thinks that US fought Soviets in WW2 and won.

That'd be an interesting poll to run. I doubt it'd be that many thought the US fought USSR though. If nothing else, pop culture helps remind us the Nazis were the bad guys.

Sure, but commies are bad too, so US fought both. Just ask people on the street.

I really have no idea who you think the 'average' American is.

It is obvious that neither does barbos.

 

[Jarhyn]

Having a history with someone is not a good reason to pursue a future with them.

Sometimes the relationship was just bad, and everyone knew it.

Sometimes countries just have to go their own way.

And in this case it's more the like of "we went on like, two dates, and now he keeps telling all his and my friends we're engaged. The psychopath showed up at my border with TROOPS, all like "we do annexation ceremony da?" And then that's when I called my neighbor to come over and tell him I'm not interested".

 

[barbos]

Having a history with someone is not a good reason to pursue a future with them.

Sometimes the relationship was just bad, and everyone knew it.

Sometimes countries just have to go their own way.

And in this case it's more the like of "we went on like, two dates, and now he keeps telling all his and my friends we're engaged. The psychopath showed up at my border with TROOPS, all like "we do annexation ceremony da?" And then that's when I called my neighbor to come over and tell him I'm not interested".

Nobody asks Ukraine to pursue a future with Russia. All I am asking is to behave like decent human beings. They can go and fuck themselves, I don't care. I just want my money back. That would be decent thing for them to do. They can even ban, harass and ukrainize their russian population, who are technically free to leave that shithole.
All I want is my money back.

 

[barbos]

Google Translate

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translate.google.com

Same meaning as in russian. Very unfortunate name for a "historian"

 

[Harry Bosch]

Having a history with someone is not a good reason to pursue a future with them.

Sometimes the relationship was just bad, and everyone knew it.

Sometimes countries just have to go their own way.

And in this case it's more the like of "we went on like, two dates, and now he keeps telling all his and my friends we're engaged. The psychopath showed up at my border with TROOPS, all like "we do annexation ceremony da?" And then that's when I called my neighbor to come over and tell him I'm not interested".

Nobody asks Ukraine to pursue a future with Russia. All I am asking is to behave like decent human beings. They can go and fuck themselves, I don't care. I just want my money back. That would be decent thing for them to do. They can even ban, harass and ukrainize their russian population. All I want is my money back.

Ukraine dosn't owe Russia anything. Russian company Gazprom was ordered to pay Ukrainian company Naftogaz some $3 billion by Stockholm arbitration. Gazprom already paid part of it, but they still owe some. Russia agreed to this. Putin agreed to this.

Russia owes Ukraine. Your country killed millions of Ukranians under Stalin. Stole their land in 2014. Now you want their water. Russia should pay Ukraine.

 

[barbos]

Ukraine dosn't owe Russia anything.

Not true. over 25 years Gazprom and other oil government controlled companies gave Ukraine $250bil in the form of discounts. Belarus got $150bil

Russia owes Ukraine. Your country killed millions of Ukranians under Stalin. Stole their land in 2014. Now you want their water. Russia should pay Ukraine

Stalin was georgian and he killed russians too,
We have been over this million times. Nobody stole anything from Ukraine. They were merely "renting" Crimea on the condition of good behavior. The moment they threatened hanging Russians they lost their rent agreement, people voted and left.

So, $250bil and you can move all your NATO forces to Ukraine, I personally don't care. Russia has nukes. Russians in Ukraine can leave for Russia or even Europe.

 

[Toni]

I thought you meant the US since you were responding to Americans started either WW.

LOL, you just threw EU and british under the bus

Yes, US did not take part in starting WW1. But you did help with starting WW2.

I’m not throwing anybody under the bus.
I’m not certain how responding to having a naval base bombed is helping to start a war that had been in progress for more than 2 years.

 

[barbos]

I thought you meant the US since you were responding to Americans started either WW.

LOL, you just threw EU and british under the bus

Yes, US did not take part in starting WW1. But you did help with starting WW2.

I’m not throwing anybody under the bus.
I’m not certain how responding to having a naval base bombed is helping to start a war that had been in progress for more than 2 years.

I see you are not much of a student of history.
I will let others to educate you about that part.

And yes, you threw EU and british under the bus.

 

[Elixir]

I see you are not much of a student of history.
I will let others to educate you about that part.

And yes, you threw EU and british under the bus.

The brevity and vacuity of your responses seems to directly correlate with your inability to address the points in the posts to which you are ostensibly responding. Responses in the format "You are stupid. Your government is corrupt. You did bad things" do nothing to add to discussion. But apparently it makes you feel better, since you do it a lot.

 

[barbos]

I see you are not much of a student of history.
I will let others to educate you about that part.

And yes, you threw EU and british under the bus.

The brevity and vacuity of your responses seems to directly correlate with your inability to address the points in the posts to which you are ostensibly responding. Responses in the format "You are stupid. Your government is corrupt. You did bad things" do nothing to add to discussion. But apparently it makes you feel better, since you do it a lot.

And your replies have a lot of words in it and no useful info.

 

[Elixir]

And your replies have a lot of words in it and no useful info.

I see you are a piss poor determinant of literary valuations.
</barbos>

 

[barbos]

Russian guy reviews modern russian and ukrainian history schoolbooks.
Russian ones are pretty bad, but ukrainian ones are just redunculous.
Made up names/testimonies/documents, edited and misattributed photographs, complete omission of well known and accepted but inconvenient facts, flat out lies.
And yes, 300 thousands years old Ukrs.

North Korea on steroids. And that has been going on since as early as 2001.
At least it explains the story my neighbor lady told me about her relatives in Ukraine where one of the younger kids told her he wants to kill .... russians.

 

[Copernicus]

Having a history with someone is not a good reason to pursue a future with them.

Sometimes the relationship was just bad, and everyone knew it.

Sometimes countries just have to go their own way.

And in this case it's more the like of "we went on like, two dates, and now he keeps telling all his and my friends we're engaged. The psychopath showed up at my border with TROOPS, all like "we do annexation ceremony da?" And then that's when I called my neighbor to come over and tell him I'm not interested".

Nobody asks Ukraine to pursue a future with Russia. All I am asking is to behave like decent human beings. They can go and fuck themselves, I don't care. I just want my money back. That would be decent thing for them to do. They can even ban, harass and ukrainize their russian population. All I want is my money back.

Ukraine dosn't owe Russia anything. Russian company Gazprom was ordered to pay Ukrainian company Naftogaz some $3 billion by Stockholm arbitration. Gazprom already paid part of it, but they still owe some. Russia agreed to this. Putin agreed to this.

Russia owes Ukraine. Your country killed millions of Ukranians under Stalin. Stole their land in 2014. Now you want their water. Russia should pay Ukraine.

Somebody in Ukraine needs to send barbos a check so that Russia will not be forced to invade their country. Luckily for his pocketbook, armies, tanks, helicopters, bullets, bombs, etc.--all of these things are free. So, once the invasion is over, he gets his money back and everybody who didn't die or sustain a life-altering injury is happy.

 

[TV and credit cards]

"NATO had become a purely geopolitical project aimed at taking over territories orphaned by the collapse of the Warsaw Treaty Organization and the Soviet Union."

-Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov




-Former Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It isn't clear where barbos got his ideas about history from, but they are largely skewed by the propaganda that he's been exposed to. Part of the problem is that history books were routinely rewritten during the Soviet period to reflect official doctrine, so a lot of the history of his country is still more accurately depicted in Western sources that preserved the true record.

This is good to keep in mind. I ran into this problem in the Philippines. Because of the education system, you could find yourself in a conversation with someone who knew absolutely nothing of geography or world history. It can be quite an impediment in conversation. I ran into similar problems trying to conduct business with the Amish. One has to be careful about the assumptions they might make in dealing with these folks.

I've seen it with China, also. It came as no surprise to me that my wife didn't recognize "Hiroshima"--names get shoehorned into the Chinese set of syllables and often become unrecognizable as a result. It came as quite a surprise when I discovered she had no idea the bomb had ever been used in war or that the US had the bomb long before China. That's not ignorance, that's deliberately distorted education.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

History mostly bores me. Usually about a bunch of men starting wars with each other.

The history that I was taught was that the US entered WWII after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. The US joined WWI after the Germans kept attacking submarines and was trying to get Mexico to join forces with Germany.

Apparently it bores you too much--you've got it very wrong on WWI.

More helpful if you actually told me what you think is the correct answer. It's been a few decades since I did history.

Edit: I googled it and really, my very brief one sentence recap was correct. Of course US entry into WWI and WWII was much more complicated than than one sentence for each would adequately address.

Germany kept attacking submarines???

More like, German submarines attacked supplies we were sending to England.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

That's not ignorance, that's deliberately distorted education.

There's a difference?

 

[Toni]

History mostly bores me. Usually about a bunch of men starting wars with each other.

The history that I was taught was that the US entered WWII after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. The US joined WWI after the Germans kept attacking submarines and was trying to get Mexico to join forces with Germany.

Apparently it bores you too much--you've got it very wrong on WWI.

More helpful if you actually told me what you think is the correct answer. It's been a few decades since I did history.

Edit: I googled it and really, my very brief one sentence recap was correct. Of course US entry into WWI and WWII was much more complicated than than one sentence for each would adequately address.

Germany kept attacking submarines???

More like, German submarines attacked supplies we were sending to England.

You're correct: I worded my post incorrectly. Sleep deprivation.... The Germans kept using submarines to sink both merchant and passenger ships, including those carrying American citizens. (See Lusitania, see Housatonic, for starters).

Or this link: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/america-enters-world-war-i