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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

Russians discussing nuclear options.



Effing scary.


I think the point is to scare. If Putin would use nukes I’m pretty sure his only remaining allies would turn on him. He knows that

No, they wouldn't. A small nuclear bomb used in Ukraine wouldn't be a red line to China or Iran.

It wouldn't matter what China or Iran thought or did. If Russia starts using nuclear weapons, it would be suicidal for NATO not to respond with overwhelming force. Perhaps only conventional force if the provocation were a single very low yield battlefield nuke; But certainly not the current pussyfooting business of supplying tanks and artillery, but not troops.

If Russia used nuclear weapons and wasn't immediately faced with annihilation by NATO, it would be as diplomatically disastrous as allowing Hitler to seize the Sudetenland was.

The use of nuclear weapons has to be a trigger for being smacked down with extreme prejudice, or Putin will feel he has carte blanche to invade any neighbour he wants.

I would like to hope that Putin has already been told in no uncertain terms that any use of nuclear weapons by Russian forces will result in an immediate American nuclear strike on his last known location, whether that's Moscow or anywhere else, and follow up strikes (should he survive) until he is confirmed dead.

The responsibility for any Russian use of nuclear weapons lies with Putin, and so it should result in his immediate execution by any means possible; And the same should go for anyone else who initiates the use of nuclear weapons.

I agree, this is what should happen. But the Russian seizure of Crimea led to nothing. That was as serious breach of Ukraines sovereignity as it's possible to get. Yet, nothing happened from the International community. NATO has already demonstrated that we're pussies.

I think the biggest risk for Russia now is having their few only remaining accessible markets cut off. China and India might join the embargo if nukes fly.
 
I agree, this is what should happen. But the Russian seizure of Crimea led to nothing. That was as serious breach of Ukraines sovereignity as it's possible to get. Yet, nothing happened from the International community.

I was under the impression that the annexation was largely welcomed by the majority of Crimeans.
 
I agree, this is what should happen. But the Russian seizure of Crimea led to nothing. That was as serious breach of Ukraines sovereignity as it's possible to get. Yet, nothing happened from the International community.

I was under the impression that the annexation was largely welcomed by the majority of Crimeans.

Following the anexation Crimeas elderly got a boost to their pensions. They liked that. Russia started pumping in money for investements. Crimeans also liked that. But Russia is a corrupt mess and those investements were stupid and turned out to be a huge waste. They were less happy about that. Heavily subsidised industries started compeating out prior industries. That made them annoyed. Crimea has largely a tourist economy. Following the anexation Crimea was boycotted by Western nations. And were then banking on Russian tourists. But they didn't want to go to Crimea. The result has been a crashed economy now entirely dependent on Russian state handouts. The tiny Crimean love for Russia ended. This was well before the invasion. Russia couldn't have managed the anexation worse.

The moral of the story is that you can buy friends with money. But you then also need to treat them right, or they will stop being your friends.
 
I agree, this is what should happen. But the Russian seizure of Crimea led to nothing. That was as serious breach of Ukraines sovereignity as it's possible to get. Yet, nothing happened from the International community.

I was under the impression that the annexation was largely welcomed by the majority of Crimeans.
No. That vote was very close. It would not have been even close except for Russia's historical persecution and displacement of the local population and replacement with Russian nationals. But even with that it was very close.
 
I agree, this is what should happen. But the Russian seizure of Crimea led to nothing. That was as serious breach of Ukraines sovereignity as it's possible to get. Yet, nothing happened from the International community.

I was under the impression that the annexation was largely welcomed by the majority of Crimeans.
There is some truth here. Depends on how we define largely! However, does the world really want Russia controlling Crimea and the black sea? All the commerce and food that flows through that area to Africa and the rest of world under the permission of Russia? Secondly, I don't think that we want the legality of land grabs to be decided by majority vote. There are many cities that border mexico/US that would favor US. So, would that give us the right to conquer those areas? Should we take over Cuba? And how do we really decide what the majority really wants? I damn sure don't trust the vote of a family being asked to vote with several Russian soldiers at their door.
 
Following the anexation Crimea was boycotted by Western nations. And were then banking on Russian tourists. But they didn't want to go to Crimea. The result has been a crashed economy now entirely dependent on Russian state handouts. The tiny Crimean love for Russia ended.
Complete and utter BS. Crimeans look at Clusterfuck called Ukraine and say "We dodged the bullet here".
Crimea had been mismanaged by Ukraine before 2014.
 
All the commerce and food that flows through that area to Africa and the rest of world under the permission of Russia? Secondly, I don't think that we want the legality of land grabs to be decided by majority vote.
Yes, you want it decided by Victoria "Fuck the EU" Nuland.
 
All the commerce and food that flows through that area to Africa and the rest of world under the permission of Russia? Secondly, I don't think that we want the legality of land grabs to be decided by majority vote.
Yes, you want it decided by Victoria "Fuck the EU" Nuland.
No. I want it decided by international law. Your country flaunts it. Your country has stolen land, looted it deliberately bombed civilian targets and infrastructure, used cluster bombs and other illegal weapons, routinely threatens the world with nuclear war and has kidnapped 20,000 Ukrainian children. I wouldn't trust your government to control the local animal control center; let alone an international strait in which millions depend upon for their food. Sorry comrade....
 
I've been following the Ukraine counteroffensive, and so far, Ukrainian troops have gone only a few kilometers into Russian-held territory in the south, territory near Zaporizhia.

A big problem is that the Russians have built lots of fortifications, and these will slow down Ukraine's advance.
It's much worse than that. Ukro-NATO forces did not even get to pass security zone.
Even pro-russian commentators did not expect such a complete fiasco.
Nuland sucks at warfare.
 
No. I want it decided by international law.
Serbia, Iraq, Sirya, Libya, Cuba, Afganistan, China,... called and said "You must be kidding, right?"
The difference between you and I is that I don't support my government breaking international law. I don't support looting, targeting civilians, stealing land, and etc. I don't make excuses for it if it's done by Russia, China, the US, or the meanies in Ukraine.
 
No. I want it decided by international law.
Serbia, Iraq, Sirya, Libya, Cuba, Afganistan, China,... called and said "You must be kidding, right?"
The difference between you and I is that I don't support my government breaking international law. I don't support looting, targeting civilians, stealing land, and etc. I don't make excuses for it if it's done by Russia, China, the US, or the meanies in Ukraine.
That's what US does in Ukraine.
Now, go and protest piece of shit Biden and his wars on Russia, China, Serbia, Sirya, Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, Iraq ..... and Germany (Whole Europe really)
Your "no support" is not worth much. And once again, Russia does everything right in Ukraine.
 
Obama recognized Crimea as part of Russia. Secret service is going to to have extra work now.

That's odd, I thought it was Obama that pushed for European countries to do more but they wouldn't listen to the uppity negro. But you do you.
 
But Russia is a corrupt mess
Compared to Ukraine Russia is practically Singapore.
In CPI ranking for 2021, Ukraine is at position 122. But Russia is 136th.

For 2022 the difference is even bigger, but war time is kind of special. What happens during war is though that it's like a centrifuge, the parasites of society flee and corruption especially in the military becomes exposed.
 
No. I want it decided by international law.
Serbia, Iraq, Sirya, Libya, Cuba, Afganistan, China,... called and said "You must be kidding, right?"
The difference between you and I is that I don't support my government breaking international law. I don't support looting, targeting civilians, stealing land, and etc. I don't make excuses for it if it's done by Russia, China, the US, or the meanies in Ukraine.
That's what US does in Ukraine.
US does not target civilians or steal land because it is not involved in the war except as supplier, and if giving billions of dollars in aid is considered "looting" then I hope the US "loots" my country too!

Your "no support" is not worth much.
This true. It should have been more, and earlier. However this:
And once again, Russia does everything right in Ukraine.
... is obviously not true. If Russia does everything right, why was it kicked out of Kyiv? Why was it kicked out of Snake Island? Why did it lose Moskva? Why did it withdraw from Kherson? Izuym? Lyman? Why did it take six months to capture Bakhmut? Why hasn't Russia been able to reach the administrative borders of ANY of the territories it claims to have annexed? Why did it have to blow up the Nova Kakhovka dam? Why is the 3-day special operation on its 485th day with no end in sight? Why has Russia changed its generals more often than Zelensky changes his socks? Why was Russia forced to mobilize more troops, with Putin warning of another mobilization possibly coming up soon?

If this is all part of the plan and it's going great, all I can say is that I hope Russia continues to do everything "right" until it's removed from Ukraine entirely.
 
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