• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

The grain deal wasn't really between Russia and Ukraine or the West, it was between Russia and Turkey.
Bullshit again. UN was there too and they promised resumption of import of russian fertilizers in exchange for allowing passage of ukrainian grain. Turkey (as the main beneficiary of the grain deal) were supposed to see that Ukraine does not use this for weapons smuggling.
As for Ukraine, they were supposed to behave, and they did not. And now they pay.
Odessa port was destroyed. And any other ports they try to use will be bombed as well.
 
barbos’s posts update us on the lies told to the Russian public.

The notion that the West will run out if ammunition before Russia is ludicrous.
Neither side is going to "run out of ammunition", because new ammunition is constantly being produced. They just are going to be more constrained.

Russia has had advantage in artillery shells since the beginning, and while Ukraine has been able to close the gap by targeting Russian logistics, they're still suffering from shell hunger more than Russia. I don't see this being reversed anytime soon. Ramping up new production is costly and Europe in particular has been slow to do so.
 
There's no proof whatsoever that any of the ships from these ports were smuggling weapons,
Bullshit again. The attack on the bridge was done using one of these ships.
And british were involved too. The fact is, British/Americans could simply tell their nazis "Stop doing that shit or we are out".
 
Criminal regime in Washington claims that they see evidence that Russians are interested in ..... resuming grain deal.
Translations: criminal regime in Washington realized that they did a boo-boo, and their plan to put in on Russia is not working, africans are firmly with Russia. So criminal regime in Washington wants to go back. Well, well well. I say Russia says, "OK, lets resume it in 6 months, while russian part od the deal resumes immediately, that would be fair, casue russian part have never been working"

So go and tell your nazis to repair ammonium pipe they blew, then restore Russia in SWIFT and then, in 6 months Russia will think about resuming ukrainian grain export. And Russia will be inspecting every damn ship going to and from Black Sea and Odessa. Yes, I am looking at you, Türkiye.
If the US wasn't interested in opening up SWIFT before, why would they do it now that Russia has bombed Ukrainian ports to cinder and have no ability to ship anything anyway? Like I said, this is between Russia and Turkey, and if Putin wants the deal back, he'll have to crawl back to Erdogan.

Also, didn't Putin say he'll deliver grain for free to Africa? So what do you need SWIFT for? :confused2:
 
barbos’s posts update us on the lies told to the Russian public.

The notion that the West will run out if ammunition before Russia is ludicrous.
Neither side is going to "run out of ammunition", because new ammunition is constantly being produced. They just are going to be more constrained.

Russia has had advantage in artillery shells since the beginning, and while Ukraine has been able to close the gap by targeting Russian logistics, they're still suffering from shell hunger more than Russia. I don't see this being reversed anytime soon. Ramping up new production is costly and Europe in particular has been slow to do so.

The U.S. has finally gotten South Korea to send artillery shells to Ukraine. In the U.S. Joe Biden has gotten $2 billion to expand U.S. munitions factories to ramp up production to full capacity. With a long peace, the U.S. has indeed let its munition production slow down, but with renewed Russian sabre rattling and threats to Poland, Moldava and Baltic states, that policy of becoming a sleeping giant is over.
 
No, the reason is that Russia wants to deny Ukraine any economic activity and punish civilians
Bullshit again. The reasons are the ones I stated.
Wouldn't be the first time you swallow Russian propaganda whole, without any evidence. Tell me, how did Ukraine smuggle weapons in or out if Russia was inspecting every ship?

Russian attacks targeted on civilians is well-recorded. Last winter it was energy infrastructure, this time the ports and grain silos. All meant to punish Ukrainians for being too uppity and terrorize them into compliance. The irony is that these attacks are having the opposite effect: if Russia had left Kyiv, Lviv, Odessa and other cities in the west alone, the people there would have started thinking that the war doesn't concern them and that maybe the east could be left to Russia. But Russian terrorism has united the nation and everyone wants to continue fighting.
 
And I only bring up Snake Island as an example how Russia lies. Prior to them withdrawing, Russian propaganda and people who regurgitate it were saying that all of Ukraine's attacks against the Island failed,
That's a complete and utter bullshit. It was Ukrainian proaganda saying that. Then they said all ukrainiand defenders died when Russia captured. That turned out to be a lie. In reality they all surrendered. Then Russia left it, because it made no sense top stay there because
plans changed.
The plans changed because Russia was getting demolished on the Island and couldn't defend it. All the while lying that they had repelled every Ukrainian attack. You repeated these lies on this board, and were shown to be completely wrong. How does it feel like to be lied to all the time?
 
Gonzalo lira. Yeah. In a "debate" (it was really no such thing) with youtube personalities Destiny and Lazerpig, Lira claimed Russian Missiles hitting Kharkiv were a false flag operation run by Ukrainian president Zelenski. And he wonders why he was arrested. Note Ganzalo claims to have a bad heart condition. Yet he chain smokes. What sort of clown is Lira? A Russian agent? No, a useful idiot.

 
The grain deal wasn't really between Russia and Ukraine or the West, it was between Russia and Turkey.
Bullshit again. UN was there too and they promised resumption of import of russian fertilizers in exchange for allowing passage of ukrainian grain.
And? Has UN done anything to stop Russian fertilizers or grain from being exported? There are no sanctions on these goods as far as I know.

What Russia wanted was that it could get some of its banks to do money transfers, so that it could bypass sanctions on other goods. Only an idiot would agree to it, and clearly it wasn't even part of the original deal because Russia went along with it for a year without it. It's just a pretext for not extending the agreement. The reality is some backroom deal with Turkey that went sour... and clearly pissed Erdogan off because he decided to show Putin who's boss by releasing the Azov fighters early, and inviting Zelensky for a visit.

Turkey (as the main beneficiary of the grain deal) were supposed to see that Ukraine does not use this for weapons smuggling.
The ships were being inspected in Turkey by group that included Russian, Turkish and Ukrainian officials (if I recall correctly, could be just Turkey and Russia). Russia used this to delay the ships as much as it could, but there's no way that any weapons could be smuggled unless Russian inspectors were complete morons.

As for Ukraine, they were supposed to behave, and they did not. And now they pay.
How did Ukraine not behave? Show me one time when they got caught trying to smuggle weapons through the grain ships?

Odessa port was destroyed. And any other ports they try to use will be bombed as well.
No surprise there. Russia has been destroying civilian infrastructure from the start.
 
Lira claimed Russian Missiles hitting Kharkiv were a false flag
I don't remember that. But that famous Harkov bombing was staged. There can't be any questions about that.
It's as clear as Syrian chemical attacks BBC scam, or Alfa Bank Trump BS.

So Lira could have talked about that, I don't know. If he did, then he was obviously right 100000000000000000000000000000%
 
If the US wasn't interested in opening up SWIFT before, why would they do it now
Don't care. These are the terms of the deal, take it it, or leave it.
I haven't been able to find any proof that the deal included any promises about opening SWIFT transfers to Russia. Only that fertilizer and grain exports wouldn't be impeded. It's just a pretext. Russia wants to use grain and food shortages as a weapon to wean African and Middle-Eastern nations away from Euro-American axis, and to raise the global food prices so that their own exports are more profitable.
 
barbos’s posts update us on the lies told to the Russian public.

The notion that the West will run out if ammunition before Russia is ludicrous.
Neither side is going to "run out of ammunition", because new ammunition is constantly being produced. They just are going to be more constrained.

Russia has had advantage in artillery shells since the beginning, and while Ukraine has been able to close the gap by targeting Russian logistics, they're still suffering from shell hunger more than Russia. I don't see this being reversed anytime soon. Ramping up new production is costly and Europe in particular has been slow to do so.

The U.S. has finally gotten South Korea to send artillery shells to Ukraine. In the U.S. Joe Biden has gotten $2 billion to expand U.S. munitions factories to ramp up production to full capacity. With a long peace, the U.S. has indeed let its munition production slow down, but with renewed Russian sabre rattling and threats to Poland, Moldava and Baltic states, that policy of becoming a sleeping giant is over.
Ramping up production takes time. You can't build a new factory or a production line very quickly. This applies equally to Russia and the west, but Russia has been faster to get started because it's basically a war-time economy. The US and especially Europe are still considering this as just a side project. Also there's a thought that a lot of these munitions will be to replenish stockpiles, rather than go to Ukraine directly, which is completely foolish. The shells should go primarily to Ukraine, and NATOs own shelves can be stocked when the war is over or if there is surplus.

Yes, eventually US and even European production capability will bypass Russia's, but it'll take at least a year, maybe several years.
 
Back
Top Bottom