How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[ZiprHead]

He also said

It does not matter what else he said.
I am not his fan.

Aww, so cute. Bless your heart.

 

[Elixir]

He also said

It does not matter what else he said.
I am not his fan.

Why’d you quote-mine him, then?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Your country only attacks what it believes are weaker countries

US does that. They thought they could win, that's why they attacked Russia.

Dude, if the US attacked Russia, the Russian military response wouldn't be limited to throwing drones and missiles at Ukraine. In fact, I'd figure had the US actually attacked Russia, the war would also have been already over by now with most of the first world smoldering.... and Russia too.

Thank god there is such invention as proxy war.

If the US "attacked Russia" (not "something vaguely related to Russia"), the Russian military response wouldn't be limited to throwing drones and missiles at Ukraine in some sort of proxy military intervention. In fact, I'd figure had the US actually "attacked Russia", the war would also have been already over by now with most of the first world smoldering.... and Russia too.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I am not his fan.

BREAKING: barbos speaks out against Putin. Says barbos "I am not his fan". News at 11!

 

[Elixir]

I am not his fan.

BREAKING: barbos speaks out against Putin. Says barbos "I am not his fan". News at 11!

Now you’re gonna get him in trouble - and just when his histrionics were getting truly entertaining!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Meh, the Russian censors stopped paying attention to me after they realized I wasn't really Carter Page.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Barbie Goes to Siberia

Barbie Goes To Russia: Cinemas Fill For Pirated Film

Wearing pink fashion, young Russians are flocking to movie theaters to watch pirated versions of the Hollywood blockbuster Barbie. Following Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Hollywood studios halted releases in Russian cinemas.

www.rferl.org

And an interactive map of Crimea, complete with Russian military installations and strikes.

Interactive Map: Occupied, Militarized Crimea

As Ukrainian leaders vow to reclaim all territories seized by Russia, Moscow has prepared extensive defensive measures, particularly in Crimea, a region unlawfully annexed in 2014.

www.rferl.org

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Sure it does. There have been some nasty artifacts of this nature with copy machines.

No, it does not.

Are you not aware of this case:

Xerox Machines Change Documents After Scanning

The next time you scan a document, you may need to check that all the t's are crossed, the i's are dotted, and that all the numbers add up. A glitch recently discovered in two of Xerox's WorkCentre machines has been changing numbers on scanned documents, possibly for several years now. The...

abcnews.go.com

I would call that a very nasty artifact.

 

[Rhea]

And your invasion has consolidated and expanded NATO.

It absolutely did not. When it's done NATO won't exist.

Wait - you believe this statement you made?
The increase of NATO from Sweden and Finland was not an expansion of NATO?

I mean, I thought it wasn’t even disputed that NATO just expanded.

 

[barbos]

I would call that a very nasty artifact.

At least it's explainable. And It's not related to the copier machine function itself. It's related to scanner.
Scanner scans a page, then It uses extreme compression which is not really a compression but OCR. and then saves it in the file.
It's not done when you simply copy page to paper. Moreover, characters do not disappear there, they get replaced.

 

[barbos]

The increase of NATO from Sweden and Finland was not an expansion of NATO?

So? Russia is decreasing NATO in Ukraine.

 

[barbos]

He also said

It does not matter what else he said.
I am not his fan.

Aww, so cute. Bless your heart.

What is really cute is what US does with respect to China-Taiwan.
One day says Taiwan IS China, the next day "We support Taiwan independence" So which one it is?
I brought up Sakrozi do demonstrate that there are significant cracks in Western position with respect to Ukraine.

 

[Rhea]

I brought up Sakrozi do demonstrate that there are significant cracks in Western position with respect to Ukraine.

Sarkozy is “western position”?

 

[barbos]

Sarkozy is “western position”?

Well, former french president, last time I checked.

 

[zorq]

What is really cute is what US does with respect to China-Taiwan.
One day says Taiwan IS China, the next day "We support Taiwan independence" So which one it is?
I brought up Sakrozi do demonstrate that there are significant cracks in Western position with respect to Ukraine.

That's a silly game that China insists upon. Russia plays that game too. Ask Russia and they will say that there is only one China but when they need something from Taiwan they don't send anyone to Beijing to negotiate trade. You are calling out the wrong hypocrite here, bud.

 

[steve_bank]

If China condemns Russia over Ukraine it then brings into question its claim to Taiwan and threats of military action. Also its clam to the South China Sea by redrawing lines on a map.

The CCP probaly still sees themselves as revolutionaries battling the west.

The problem is Chna bought into the global econonomy, it has a lot to lose. Reporting says China is having a slowdown and unemployment problems. They still hang onto communist and willnot let the ecinohomy go entirelyy free market. It hampers creating doestic consumption. Letting the currency float.

To me Ukraine is starting to look like a salemate. The BBC reports school text books are now painting Ukraine as a non entity and rightfully Russia's, and young people are accpeting it.

It is looking like that while our free press has some issues, it is far bteer that the alterntives.

Putin is taking from the Nazi playbook.

Co opt the justice system and the press. Heavy incrimination in schools string in 1st grade. Ceasless daily propaganda. Another generation and Germany woud have benn fully indoctrinated. Little posibility of qusetiong the state.

 

[barbos]

What is really cute is what US does with respect to China-Taiwan.
One day says Taiwan IS China, the next day "We support Taiwan independence" So which one it is?
I brought up Sakrozi do demonstrate that there are significant cracks in Western position with respect to Ukraine.

That's a silly game that China insists upon. Russia plays that game too. Ask Russia and they will say that there is only one China but when they need something from Taiwan they don't send anyone to Beijing to negotiate trade. You are calling out the wrong hypocrite here, bud.

What does that have to do with Russia?
And secondly, Russia does not play this game any more than China does. China has economic relations with Taiwan. And China is fine with Russia trading with Taiwan. Russia does not support Taiwan independence.

 

[zorq]

What is really cute is what US does with respect to China-Taiwan.
One day says Taiwan IS China, the next day "We support Taiwan independence" So which one it is?
I brought up Sakrozi do demonstrate that there are significant cracks in Western position with respect to Ukraine.

That's a silly game that China insists upon. Russia plays that game too. Ask Russia and they will say that there is only one China but when they need something from Taiwan they don't send anyone to Beijing to negotiate trade. You are calling out the wrong hypocrite here, bud.

What does that have to do with Russia?
And secondly, Russia does not play this game any more than China does. China has economic relations with Taiwan. And China is fin with Russia trading with Taiwan. Russia does not support Taiwan independence.

The point is that everybody knows Taiwan isn't China. Taiwan is an independent country in every sense of the word. The USA knows it, Russia knows it, and China knows it. But everybody plays China's silly game of telling them "There is only one China." But everyone knows it is a lie. You insisting that USA is any different from Russia in this respect is the only thing that is "cute" about this conversation. So long as we all understand "cute" to be "stupid."

 

[barbos]

The point is that everybody knows Taiwan isn't China. Taiwan is an independent country in every sense of the word.

Not according to State Department.

 

[steve_bank]

Taiwan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Taiwan has been settled for at least 25,000 years. Ancestors of Taiwanese indigenous peoples settled the island around 6,000 years ago. In the 17th century, large-scale Han Chinese (specifically the Hakkas and Hoklos) immigration to western Taiwan began under a Dutch colony and continued under the Kingdom of Tungning, the first predominantly Han Chinese state in Taiwanese history. The island was annexed in 1683 by the Qing dynasty of China and ceded to the Empire of Japan in 1895. The Republic of China, which had overthrown the Qing in 1911, took control of Taiwan following the surrender of Japan in 1945.[p] Japan would renounce sovereignty over Taiwan in 1952. The immediate resumption of the Chinese Civil War resulted in the loss of the Chinese mainland to Communist forces, who established the People's Republic of China and the flight of the ROC central government to Taiwan in 1949. The effective jurisdiction of the ROC has since been limited to Taiwan, Penghu, and smaller islands.

In the early 1960s, Taiwan entered a period of rapid economic growth and industrialization called the "Taiwan Miracle".[44] In the late 1980s and early 1990s, the ROC transitioned from a one-party state under martial law to a multi-party democracy, with democratically elected presidents since 1996. Taiwan's export-oriented industrial economy is the 21st-largest in the world by nominal GDP and the 20th-largest by PPP measures, with a focus on steel, machinery, electronics, and chemicals manufacturing. Taiwan is a developed country,[45][46] ranking 20th on GDP per capita by purchasing power parity (PPP) and 30th by nominal GDP per capita. It is ranked highly in terms of civil liberties,[47] healthcare,[48] and human development.[l][26]

The political status of Taiwan is contentious.[49] The ROC no longer represents China as a member of the United Nations after UN members voted in 1971 to recognize the PRC instead.[50] The ROC maintained its claim of being the sole legitimate representative of China and its territory until 1991, when it ceased to regard the CCP as a rebellious group and recognized its jurisdiction over Mainland China.[51] Taiwan is claimed by the PRC, which refuses to establish diplomatic relations with countries that recognise the ROC. Taiwan maintains official diplomatic relations with 12 out of 193 UN member states and the Holy See, which governs Vatican City.[52] Many others maintain unofficial diplomatic ties through representative offices and institutions that function as de facto embassies and consulates. International organizations in which the PRC participates either refuse to grant membership to Taiwan or allow it to participate only on a non-state basis under various names. Domestically, the major political contention is between parties favoring eventual Chinese unification and promoting a pan-Chinese identity, contrasted with those aspiring to formal international recognition and promoting a Taiwanese identity; into the 21st century, both sides have moderated their positions to broaden their appeal.[53][54]

I do not think Taiwan is settled. We supported the Taiwanese dictator Chang Kai Shek because he was anti communist. Glob bally I think Taiwan is in limbo. The UN formally recognized mainland China and the CCP as China. So technically considering the post WWII agreements Taiwan may be part of China.

For us Taiwan is a lingering Cold War legacy. FOXCON who built a lot of China's manufacturing infrastructure is in Taiwan.

The problem for us Taiwan became a major manufacturer of integrted circuits. In the day cheap labor and little environmental regulations. It was highly polluted. If China takes Taiwan before chip manufacturing gets moved elsewhere it could mean trouble for us and Europe. Both sides of Atalnc are scrnblig to build chip factories. Before Chi opened up Taiwan was the lpace for chaep offshore electronics manufacturing.

On the other hand Russia signed an agreement along with Britain and the USA guaranteeing sovereignty in exchange fr nuclear weapons. Ukrainian sovereignty was established legally by international agreement. The text is online.