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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

You are asking if the US really tricked the Soviets to invade Afghanistan?
Yes, they did, and they kept lying throughout the war and long after until 1998. Meanwhile russians were saying the truth, at least after the war.
Same with Cuban Missile Crisis. Your government lied to american people about it. US provoked it and it was US government deranged maniacs who put the world on the brink of nuclear war.
So stop with this Ukraine democracy crap. It's as clear as a daylight was an attempt to start a proxy war with Russia.
 
Nord Stream: I don't know who did it. But you seem to. If only you could show us some evidence that doesn't exist entirely in your imagination.
Really you're going with "I don't know", really?
Even Kissinger is not going with that.
 
Changing the subject?
No, subject is the same - lies of US government.
So, did you find WMD?
No. The fact that the US has lied and manipulated in the past is not evidence that the US is lying and manipulated politics in Ukraine. That is not how evidence works. If you want to convict a person of murder X, you can't just dig out some dude who committed a different murder Y and pin murder X on him because he has a reputation for murder. If that worked there would only be one dude in jail for murder because he HAD to have done ALL the murders. That's stupid. Go find some real evidence.

Plus, I JUST addressed the stupid WMD. Bush lied. He should go to prison for war crimes.
 
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No. The fact that the US has lied and manipulated in the past is not evidence that the US is lying and manipulated politics in Ukraine
It shows pattern. As for Ukraine we know your government lies. It lies about the way the war going and it lies about what caused it.
You caused it, we know that for a fact. You told Zelensky to stop negotiating with Russians about ukraine's neutral status and start the war, or else.
 
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I already adressed Nino in this thread. She has motive to lie about her political opponents and didn't offer any objective evidence of any wrong doing. J
That's great. Just assign motives to any witness and you are done.
She is not alone, plenty of people can confirm that US state department are the deranged maniacs running around and bribing and threatening anyone who dares to have normal relation with Russia, especially at the border.
Just like you, she would have credibility if she had evidence. But both of you have nothing.
You are asking if the US really tricked the Soviets to invade Afghanistan?
Yes, they did, and they kept lying throughout the war and long after until 1998. Meanwhile russians were saying the truth, at least after the war.
Same with Cuban Missile Crisis. Your government lied to american people about it. US provoked it and it was US government deranged maniacs who put the world on the brink of nuclear war.
So stop with this Ukraine democracy crap. It's as clear as a daylight was an attempt to start a proxy war with Russia.
Nope, it is clear as daylight that Putin is a cruel violent dictator who thought he could conquer Ukraine for his own glory.
Nord Stream: I don't know who did it. But you seem to. If only you could show us some evidence that doesn't exist entirely in your imagination.
Really you're going with "I don't know", really?
Even Kissinger is not going with that.
I follow the evidence. I'm not like you.
. I assume you are referring to the 2016 election? US senate committee released a 1000 page report on Putin's attempts to influence the election and Trump's welcoming of it. https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intel-releases-volume-5-bipartisan-russia-report
Utter bullshit. every single letter there is BS. Staring with the pee tape and ending with Alfa bank garbage.
This isn't the Steele dossier. This is a summation of interviews with more than 300 witnesses and like a million documents of evidence.

I wish you had evidence.
 
This isn't the Steele dossier. This is a summation of interviews with more than 300 witnesses and like a million documents of evidence.
Don't fucking care, witnesses have motives. Take for example piece of shit witness McCain. He has a grudge against russians.
He participated in illegal war his government unleashed on Vietnam and suffered in captivity. He really hated asians and by extension russians.
These so-called russian dissidents you like to quote, well, they have their motives too. From wanting to be paid by US government to give false report, run for president of Russia or anything. You don't think people would lie to get favors from willing governments?

Why don't you consider the testimony of ..... Mila Kunis. She has her opinion about Ukrainian people too. Not very complementary I must say. I don't recall her waving ukrainian flag.

You select shit you like and build your theory on that completely ignoring opinions of people opinions of whom you don't like.
Have any of the MSSM scum ever visited Crimea and asked any people there? Do they really want to be in Ukraine?
oh right you have excuse, Putin would execute them if they say they want to be in Ukraine, very convenient.
Canada has a lot ukrainians and all that shit. Do you know the family history of many of them? Do you?
many of them are direct descendants of ukrainian nazis/banderites who collaborated with german nazis and had to leave USSR with german army. So their opinion is important to you, crimeans not so much.

Your thousand pages report is refuted (without reading) by a single fact - Alfa-bank story.
Steele report was 100% garbage and fabrication, all of it.
 
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You have two parties who absolutely hate Trump. And one party (democratic) will not stop at anything to prevent Trump from becoming a president again. Throwing Ukraine under the bus - fine. Throwing Europe under the bus - fine too. Nuclear war with Russia? - still better than Trump. Trump is a piece of shit but your two parties are worse than him. At least from where I am.
 
Back to the topic of impending collapse of ukrainian army.
Ukrainian Fuhrer changed medical exceptions for mobilization to ..... pretty much none.
I wonder why, I wonder why. Things were going great, losses were minimal, russians were dying in millions. Lindsey Graham was extra happy.
Why change what's working? Do they plan liberating China?
 
It shows pattern. As for Ukraine we know your government lies. It lies about the way the war going and it lies about what caused it.
Out of curiosity Barbos, is it your position that Putin and the Russian government to not say any lies about the causes of the war or how it’s going?
 
Why don't you consider the testimony of ..... Mila Kunis. She has her opinion about Ukrainian people too. Not very complementary I must say. I don't recall her waving ukrainian flag.
Really?

In 1991, when actor Mila Kunis moved to the United States, her family left their home in what was then the Soviet Union. She was seven and a half; she spoke Russian and says she thought of herself as Russian.


“If I said the word Ukraine, no one would know where that country was on the map, and so I was like, ‘that’s exhausting.’ Let’s just stick to the big red dot over there, and so I would say I’m from Russia for many, many years,” Kunis told CNN’s Erin Burnett.

Last February, when Russian forces invaded Ukraine, Kunis said she found a new sense of pride in the country where she was born. She made it clear: “I am Ukrainian who speaks Russian, and I found myself correcting myself and my friends who are also from Ukraine.”
Kunis and Kutcher named their campaign Stand With Ukraine and launched it in early March with the goal of raising $30 million. The couple donated $3 million in matching funds. Just two weeks later, they exceeded their goal, and in a video said 65,000 people contributed.

To date, Stand with Ukraine has raised more than $36 million, and more than 75,000 people have donated. Kunis says the campaign not only helps the people of Ukraine but allows supporters around the world to be involved.

What color is the sky in Russia?
 
I follow the war in Twitter / X, and Ukraine's forces have pushed southeast from Robotyne, and are now between Novoprokopivka and Verbove.

For instance,
Fabio Podesta 🇺🇦 on X: "1/2 Fronte #Zaporizhzhia: ..." / X
1/2 Fronte #Zaporizhzhia:
Settore #Rabotino: i 🇷🇺 hanno ricevuto altri rinforzi dal settore di Kreminna e tornano a contrattaccare il sud di Rabotino senza successo.
Gli 🇺🇦 proseguono la spinta a est di Novoprokopivka nel tentativo di aggirare le difese 🇷🇺.
(segue)

2/3 ... Nel settore #Verbove gli 🇺🇦 proseguono la spinta sulla linea Surovikin a sud-est di Verbove. La periferia di Verbove è ora zona grigia.

‼️Il rapporto di ieri sera sulla liberazione di Novoprokopivka si è rivelato una bufala. Me ne scuso ed elimino la fonte.

( segue)

3/3 ... penso che l'arrivo dei rinforzi 🇷🇺 terrà le posizioni ferme per qualche giorno su tutto il fronte. Bisogna dare il tempo all'artiglieria 🇺🇦 di fare il suo mestiere.

#Russia #Ucraina #ukrainecounteroffensive #Ukraine
Google Translate from Italian:
1/2 Edge #Zaporizhzhia :
Sector #Rabotino : 🇷🇺 have received further reinforcements from the Kreminna sector and are returning to counterattack south of Rabotino without success.
The 🇺🇦 continue the push east of Novoprokopivka in an attempt to outflank the 🇷🇺 defences.
(continued)

2/3 ... In the sector #Verbove the 🇺🇦 continue the push on the Surovikin line southeast of Verbove. The suburbs of Verbove are now a gray area.

‼️ Last night's report on the liberation of Novoprokopivka turned out to be a hoax. I apologize and delete the source.

(continued)

3/3 ... I think that the arrival of the reinforcements 🇷🇺 will keep the positions firm for a few days on the whole front. You have to give the artillery 🇺🇦 time to do its job.

#Russia #Ucraina #ukrainecounteroffensive #Ukraine
 
You nay have lived here but oiu do not understand our culture.

Blacks were brought over as slaves. After the civil war they were denied ther righys as citizens. It was encoded into llaws we refer to as Jim Crow.
Blacks were beten, hung, and shot with impunity.
No, it's you who does not understand russian history. You don't even know any of it. You know propaganda shit your government and Hollywood was and still feeding you.
I, on the other hand, fairly well versed in american history, considering I never studied it in school. I probably know american history better than you, because the history you were taught in school was mostly propaganda.
What is to understand?

A moarchy obertrned by a revolution.

The revoltion ended in an oppressive police stae.

There was a post revolution democracy faction. Lennon realized a rapid transformation would not work, hence the idea of the Vanguard, a core communist ideological group would guide Russia over time from capitalism to socialism to the end communist state.

Stalin got wind of communication between Lennon and modertes, some seculate Sralin hastend Lennon's death. Stain siezed power. No election, no say by the people who the revolution was all about.

When Stain died Russia was de-Stalinized by the communists. Foloed by incmetent ladership ad mangement. Famines and crop failures. Rigid social control. Post Soviets a series of inept leaders ending in Putin.

Having eliminated the middle class 'bourgeoisie' who could have run an economy Russia stagnated economically and never met basic needs, while the west developed modern technology, agriculture and lived well.

I read Marx and Trotsky's History Of The Russian Revolution back in the 70s. You remember Trotsky don't you? Sentenced to death for opposing Stalin and ended up with an ice pick in his head in Mexico. Putin's assassinations today is right in line with Stalin.

You will find Americans are probably far more knowledgeable about Russia than Russians about America. We'd rather make hot tubs and relax than make war, but we will fight.

At the college level a comparative politics class covered te major political systems, including the Soviets of the day. We are biased in favorof individual rights and democarcy and capitalism, but we can objectively assess other systems.

Were are open to change ad the USA today is nit what it was in 1800. It changes as people's views change. Today part f the political debate is about how close we want to get o soicalism.


As Marx said, the revolution doe not end. I heard it said that in some respects the USA is more in line with what Mark was preaching than the Russian communists.

This below describes our union history and labor vs ownership. A never ending dynamic balance of forces, It is manifesting right here in Seattle with a push to unionize companies like Amazon and Starbucks.

Federal law guarantees a right for labor(aka the proletariat) to collecvely bargain with management. Do Russian workers have a voice?

In the remainder of the text, Marx outlines his proposal that the proletariat "make the revolution permanent". In essence, it consists of the working class maintaining a militant and independent approach to politics both before, during and after the struggle which will bring the petty-bourgeois democrats to power.

This also in some ways describes the USA, cetainly not post revolution Russia to today.

A given existing social state called the thesis encountered opposing forces, the antithesis. The result of their collision was a new state, synthesis, a higher resolution of this earlier conflict.


This is just off the top of my head, I'd have to do a review to go deeper.

Do you have any pals who could post here?


Barbos

1. Are the Russian people better or worse for the war?
2. Is Russia more or less influential for the war?
3. Is Russia more secure for the war?
 
When a cross-border couple involves a developed nation and another nation it's rare for them to not settle in the developed nation.
And the goal of US foreign policy is to keep undeveloped countries undeveloped.
How are we keeping countries undeveloped?

In the real world countries are undeveloped because they're either hardcore communist or kleptocracies--often both. There's not really much to do about a kleptocracy other than smack it down it if tries to steal beyond it's borders.
 
Russian propaganda has been full of genocidal and violent rhetoric.
Really?
Do you know how 2014 Maidan proceeded long before the war YOU started?
Do you know that Ukranians hate Russia all by themselves without anyone telling them to? Do you know that Ukranian people understand that Russia is a violent and untrustworthy neighbor even without anyone telling them to? Because it is written in history. A history that Ukranians are all to aware of. They had just seen it happen in Georgia. And all those Ukranians who believed and understood these truths in EuroMaidan were proven correct over the past 8 years and especially over the past 2 years. Russia can not be trusted because her people are only happy when an evil cunt is in charge.
Holodomor. Now Russia is trying to engage in Holodomor II
 
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