How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Loren Pechtel]

No. Ukraine is still probably upset about the 5 million citizens who starved to death while under the thumb of the Russian lead USSR and all the other shit that went along with that. Russia has been a dick to Ukraine.

Yes, their propaganda tells them to. They conveniently omit that starvation was NOT intentional and WAS spread into the parts of the USSR. You touched on shitty part of ukrainianism. That is, they are ridiculously short-sighted and only care about themselves. basically they are fairly large "country" which behave like they are tiny.

My advice to you, stop parroting ukro-scum propaganda and actually learn history.
It ain't pretty for ukrainian nazis.

It was intentional--they took the grain knowing the people would starve.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Russia is running out of windows!

Top Russian rocket scientist dies from 'mushroom poisoning' - News Trek

A Russian rocket scientist has died after mysteriously being poisoned - with Russian state media saying that he ate edible mushrooms.

ptv-news.com.pk

 

[steve_bank]

Anybody with toilet paper can probably get rich in Russia.

 

[barbos]

Out of curiosity Barbos, is it your position that Putin and the Russian government to not say any lies about the causes of the war or how it’s going?

Yes, it's my position. And in general they lie way way less than your government.
Your government lies are simply outrageous. And they honestly believe that they can get away with it.

Your theory about Putin reconstituting USSR is simply retarded. It can be find believable in US considering your history of anti-[russian propaganda. But in Russia it's laughable. Russia has never been expansionist empire in the sense people normally understand.
Well, maybe 1000 years ago there was something there similar to what was happening in Europe later.
With little exception (Peter the great) Russia only expanded into empty spaces and it absolutely had to survive.
Compare to GB. Explain me, why they had crimean war with Russia in 19 century? Why they went god know where and had tried to take Crimea from Russia?

 

[barbos]

Really?

They must have gotten to her. Last time I checked long time ago, she was still not very happy about her trip to her home town, confirming all stereotypes about ukrainism.

 

[barbos]

Dude, The plan was for Russia to embrace democracy and capitalism because it encourages peace and prosperity.

No, you need to read less publicised part of the plan.

Link to where we can read this, please.

I already did, many times. Recent conference in Poland about splitting Russia into 5 parts (based on ethnic composition).

 

[barbos]

No. Ukraine is still probably upset about the 5 million citizens who starved to death while under the thumb of the Russian lead USSR and all the other shit that went along with that. Russia has been a dick to Ukraine.

Yes, their propaganda tells them to. They conveniently omit that starvation was NOT intentional and WAS spread into the parts of the USSR. You touched on shitty part of ukrainianism. That is, they are ridiculously short-sighted and only care about themselves. basically they are fairly large "country" which behave like they are tiny.

My advice to you, stop parroting ukro-scum propaganda and actually learn history.
It ain't pretty for ukrainian nazis.

It was intentional--they took the grain knowing the people would starve.

Historians disagree.

 

[barbos]

When a cross-border couple involves a developed nation and another nation it's rare for them to not settle in the developed nation.

And the goal of US foreign policy is to keep undeveloped countries undeveloped.

How are we keeping countries undeveloped?

In the real world countries are undeveloped because they're either hardcore communist or kleptocracies--often both. There's not really much to do about a kleptocracy other than smack it down it if tries to steal beyond it's borders.

You keep them under-developed by keeping these kleptocrats in power.
In the real world, most under-developed countries are not Cuba.

 

[barbos]

I follow the evidence. I'm not like you.

No, I follow evidence, you don't.
I you had followed the evidence you would have concluded that US government lied about Alfa-Bank story, and then by extension lied about everything else.
Steele report was a complete lie, every single bit of it. I repeat every single bit of it.
Alfa-Bank story was a complete lie from the get-go. Chemical attack in Syria was a complete lie,
And you did nothing!

And before you start with "Oh, US government had nothing with alfa-bank story, it was all MSM". I have bridge to sell you.
Even if they really did not have anything to do they should have came out and publicly say that the story is garbage and they did not, why? because at the very least it suited them. Now, I don't have evidence that US government is behind it, but I am pretty sure they are.

 

[bilby]

Anybody with toilet paper can probably get rich in Russia.

Are all your ideas about Russia three decades out of date, or are you just bringing up the real old ones to needle Barbos?

 

[barbos]

Do you know that Ukranians hate Russia

No, I don't know that. I know their nazis do, but they hate you too.
Do you know that Gagarin was ukrainian?
...
...
OK, I am not in the mood to play this game long.
here is a story behind Gagarin the Ukrainian.

You may have heard about Chatroulette.
So random russians chat with random ukrainians and then put the best chats onto youtube.
One guy was a history teacher and liked jently troll mostly younger kids in ukraine about history they had been taught in their ukrainian schools. By the way, they all speak russian perfectly, but with their accent.
The current version of ukrainian history in Ukraine is about it being non Russia, that I knew.
But one after get frustrated with being schooled (by a a russian history teacher), suddenly asks who was Gagarin? He obviously says "a russian" And she emphatically and triumphally says "No! he was ukrainian"
It was not trolling on her part, she honestly believed what she said. This is what kids were being taught in schools.
At that moment I concluded that Russia can not afford to have that shit on their border. Russia must stop this inhumane experiment over these people. That video alone is a justification for "invasion"

And yes, I base the whole invasion on just one Chatroulette video!
They had 25 years and this is what it degenerated into - "gagarin was ukrainian, Russia orcs, ukrs are superior race of people" and the rest of garbage.


By the way, ukrainians do that too, they go around and troll russians in Chatroulette and then release videos which they think looks bad for russians, except that it's the opposite.

 

[barbos]

Anybody with toilet paper can probably get rich in Russia.

Are all your ideas about Russia three decades out of date, or are you just bringing up the real old ones to needle Barbos?

Don't be too hard on him, he overdosed on ukrainian propaganda (they really made their population believe in toilet paper thing)
I am not fucking joking. See above, toilet paper thing was mentioned in Chatroulette too.

 

[Elixir]

Do you know that Ukranians hate Russia

No, I don't know that. I know their nazis do, but they hate you too.

All four of them? Really?
Don’t your Russian ones hate us too?

Do you know that Gagarin was ukrainian?

Why didn’t you capitalize “Ukrainian”, barbi?
Your slip is showing!

 

[barbos]

This a common problem many of these russophobe entities have (Yes, I am looking at you Baltic States)
Their excessive desire to clean themselves of Russia results in two things - they end up with very little and that very little are ..... nazis. I mean literally jew murdering nazis. Ukraine ended up with Bandera. And Latvia ended up with some hero, who was ..... jew murdering nazi.
I remember his own son or maybe grandson himself was like "What the fuck are you doing?!"
And the guy WAS an unquestionably a hero (record setting pilot, engineer, all that shit), but he also was an avid jew murderer.

So yeah, that's a dilemma they have.

 

[barbos]

I remember another funny Chatroulette (from history teacher)
It's about Kievan Rus. Some of you here are guilty of this too.
It was a grown Ukrainian man having a history debate with a russian history teacher.
Again, the goal was to prove that Kievan Rus has nothing to do with Russia/Orcistan.
Long story short, history teacher asked about famous ancestor ruler of Ukraine (Kievan Rus).
Yeah, he was ukrainian blah-blah, Moscow did not even exist at that time, cool.
Where did he come from?
I don't know
Well, he came from ..... modern day Russia, and while it's true that Moscow did not exist, he came from another big Russian city called Novgorod which was unquestionably russian. So a russian (plus shitlocat of nordic blood) dude comes to Kiev and says "I like it here, I will stay and make it a capital".
the end, ukrainian guy leaves Chatroulette.

So you see, your "Kiev is older than Moscow" is technically garbage, because Russia is older than Moscow and the main dude in Kiev (founder of Kievan Rus) was ...... a russian. Kievan Rus IS Russia. Moreover the word "Ukraine" was given to Ukraine by .... russian empire rulers, it's in the fucking name - "Ukraine" literally means "Border Land" of .... Russia.
Ukro-historians came up with ridiculous idea that there were people calling themselves "ukrs" and they even found them ..... in Germany of all places

These people are asking to be invaded and saved from themselves.
I really mean it. I would have been fine with these people building an independent and democratic Ukraine, but not this shit.
It simply can not go on anymore.

 

[barbos]

To continue the rant.
This Ukraine situation is somewhat similar to what Russia had in Chechnya. Chehnya was orders of magnitude worse but nevertheless similar. I am talking about the fact that in both cases they got their independence one way or another and were given a chance to build something resembling an independent country and in both cases they failed. Chechnya devolved into slave state filled with islamic terrorists from all over the world. Ukraine simply sold itself to Russian enemies for cheap. Russia can't have it, period.

 

[steve_bank]

Barbos

Putin justifying seizing Ukraine is that it it was always part of Russia. Same Soviet reasoing for subjugating its client states. Stalin justified control of Poland poswar WWII for some hostrical reason. Maybe you need to review Russian history.

Chechnya. Georgia....now Ukraine.

First Chechen War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The First Chechen War, also known as the First Russo-Chechen war, was a war of independence which the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria waged against the Russian Federation from December 1994 to August 1996. The first war was preceded by the Russian Intervention in Ichkeria, in which Russia tried covertly to overthrow the Ichkerian government. After the initial campaign of 1994–1995, culminating in the devastating Battle of Grozny, Russian federal forces attempted to seize control of the rest of the lowlands and the mountainous area of Chechnya, but they faced heavy resistance from Chechen guerrillas and raids on the flatlands. Despite Russia's overwhelming advantages in firepower, manpower, weaponry, artillery, combat vehicles, airstrikes and air support, the Chechen recapture of Grozny in 1996 and the resulting demoralization of Russian forces led Boris Yeltsin's government to declare a ceasefire with the Chechens in 1996, and finally, it signed a peace treaty in 1997.

I watched an interview recently with the president of Moldova.

At Ukraine’s Edge, Russia Presses Hybrid War on Tiny Moldova

At a sensitive edge of Russia’s war on Ukraine, Moscow is sustaining a campaign to regain control in Moldova, the small, ex-Soviet republic landlocked between Ukraine and Romania. Russia has maneuvered for years to scuttle Moldovans’ aims to join the European Union, crimping their economy and...

www.usip.org

Since the Soviet Union’s collapse in 1991, Russia has strived to restore control over Moldova, which Russia’s tsars for centuries fortified as imperial Russia’s southwest frontier against European and Ottoman Turkish powers. That history as a contested borderland of empires bequeathed the roughly 3 million Moldovans their linguistic and communal mix: Most are Romanian-speakers, culturally tied to the 19 million Romanians to their west, but many are ethnic Ukrainians, Russians, Bulgarians, Roma or Gagauz.

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s escalated invasion of Ukraine 17 months ago included an armed thrust into Moldova to strengthen Moscow’s grip there, according to a map presented then by Putin’s ally, Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko. Ukraine’s staunch defense has forestalled any outright Russian military seizure of Moldova. But the Kremlin sustains a subversion campaign that weaponizes corruption, disinformation and economic pressure to hobble Moldova’s move toward Europe. Russia’s “creeping political annexation” in Moldova has a chance, within two years, to realize its aims of replacing the pro-European government with one or more Russian-backed parties and halting Moldova’s integration with Europe, a former senior Moldovan diplomat, Vlad Lupan, said in an interview.

In recent years, Putin’s regime has escalated a hybrid war to cripple Moldova’s move toward Europe, using methods it inflicts on other ex-Soviet republics — especially Ukraine and Georgia — that have sought full independence from Russia. The Kremlin’s tools of influence vary, from control over Moldova’s gas supplies to the Russian Orthodox patriarch’s jurisdiction over the Moldovan Orthodox Church. Moscow’s tactics include:

A “frozen conflict.” Russia controls easternmost Moldova — the narrow eastern bank of the Dniester River, or Transnistria — as an insurgent, separatist entity that Moscow signals Moldova will not recover unless it accepts a Russian veto over its foreign and security policies. Corrupt oligarchs administer Transnistria’s government and dominate the economy under supervision by Russian intelligence services backed by Russian troops that have remained since the Soviet era.
Economic pain and paid protests. Moldova is one of Europe’s economically poorest countries, with at least a quarter of its work force performing or seeking work abroad in recent years. Russia, until last year Moldova’s sole supplier of gas, hiked prices and cut supplies, multiplying home heating and electricity costs four to seven times in 2022 and spiking inflation. The Kremlin selectively punishes Moldovans for defying its will; last year it banned imports of Moldovan farm produce for supposed insect infestations — except for crops from Transnistria and from Orhei, a district where the Russia-backed Shor Party holds local power. As Moscow deepens Moldovans’ pain, the Shor Party sponsors protests demanding President Sandu’s resignation — and, the Moldovan newspaper Ziarul Garda documented, has paid protesters in cash for participating.
Disinformation. Russia uses its state media, including television networks, plus social media and proxy groups such as the Shor Party, to mislead Moldovans with disinformation, say Moldova’s government, the independent local research organization, Watchdog, and the HybridCoE analysis center, run by EU and NATO states. Disinformation includes “creation and dissemination of fake news, and so-called deepfakes in particular,” such as a video engineered last October that purported to record President Sandu discussing with Ukraine’s prime minister a supposed Moldovan military mobilization against Russia, HybridCoE reported.
Strategic corruption. Varied sources have publicized Moscow’s remunerations or other support of Moldovan “oligarchs” and their political machines for advancing Kremlin aims. These include separate investigations by RISE Moldova, a nonprofit journalism project, and The Washington Post; a Moldovan corruption indictment against former President Igor Dodon; U.S. sanctions declarations against the Shor Party leader, Ilan Shor; and even infighting between Russian proxies that led oligarch Vladimir Plahotniuc to broadcast a video of Dodon apparently discussing illegal funding he received from Russia.

Have you read The Gulag Archipelago and One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich by Solzhenitsyn?

Is it read in schools?

Barbos, answer.

1. Are Russians better or worse for the war?
2. Is Russia more or less influential for the war?
3. Is the Russian future better or worse for thewar?

The above is what it comes to.

Finland and Sweden are now NATO members. The war has cost Russian casualties and money and is going on 17 months. Europe is getting off Russian energy, a major Russian export. The Russian economy has limited access to the global economy hurting the Russian people. Cutting off grain to areas of the word where it is critical has angered people. Finland restricts entry to Russians.


The war does not seem to have any positive aspects, other than gratifying Putin's lust for power.


Russian inflation is 12%. Russia ranks 64th in per capita GDP. Russian median income is about 1/3 - 1/4 of North America and western Europe. Why is that? Could it be Russian headship and a ridiculous fanatical anti west position?

 

[barbos]

Putin justifying seizing Ukraine is that it it was always part of Russia.

No, even though it is true that it has always been part of something, be it Russia, Poland, Austria.
Most of the land most of the time was Russia.

 

[barbos]

Have you read The Gulag Archipelago and One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich by Solzhenitsyn?

No, not my type of literature. I know it has been shown to be a fiction which has very little basis in reality.
It was held as historical truth right after USSR collapse though.

Is it read in schools?

it was but I think it is out or it was petitioned to be excluded.

Are Russians better or worse for the war?

Nothing really changed for the most part.

Is Russia more or less influential for the war?

Don't understand the question

Is the Russian future better or worse for thewar?

Probably better. I expect western support to collapse and Russia gets large chunk of Ukraine as a result of a settlement.
The rest of Ukraine will become neutral. Same thing happened in Georgia.

I watched an interview recently with the president of Moldova.

She is full of shit. You need to understand that there are a lot of places which are historically russian and populated by russians and people there are genuinely not happy about being part of russophobe countries. They really do not want to learn other languages, the land has always been russian. In case of Moldova they HAVE NEVER established a control over that land. When USSR dissolved they should have redrew borders according ethnic distribution everywhere. The fact that it had not been done is unfortunate.

 

[barbos]

Russian inflation is 12%. Russia ranks 64th in per capita GDP. Russian median income is about 1/3 - 1/4 of North America and western Europe. Why is that? Could it be Russian headship and a ridiculous fanatical anti west position?

That's is simply not true.
Having said that. I was literally starving in the 90s when US was governing Russia.

And why are you doing it over and over again and expect different result?
It's established fact that western plan A was to provoke Russia into conflict with Ukraine, impose sanctions and have total economic collapse. IT DID NOT WORK.