barbos
Contributor
Nope, Russia is not as bad as Ukraine, that's just a fact.
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Features
How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?
- Thread starter Harry Bosch
- Start date
DrZoidberg
Contributor
It's a war. Nobody knows. Both the Ukraine and Russia are on purpose confusing the media, and using it as another weapon of war. We're all just guessing here. Yes, you too.
barbos
Contributor
They are not going to win. They are not even supposed to win. They are supposed to make it expensive for Russia and die doing so,
And so far they are failing even at that. It's not expensive for Russia.
barbos
Contributor
Maybe you don't know but satellite imagery of all russian defensive lines have been published long time ago
And ukro-wermacht HAVE NOT REACHED IT YET.
Ukro-regime HAVE to lie to its own people and to the west. Otherwise it's over.
Fun fact, ukro-regime HAVE YET TO ADMIT LOSS OF Bachmut.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Don't confuse wealth with a functioning economy, rule of law and personal liberty. Russia has oil and gas money to prop it up. That's the ONLY reason Russia has any wealth to speak of. Economically speaking Russia is just another Saudi Arabia. Ukraine doesn't have that. They grow wheat. Both Russia and Ukraine are corrupt to a bizarre degree. A heritage from their shared communist times.
Based on what I've read, the only reason so many Crimeans were happy about the Russian annexation in 2014 was because of the increase in their pensions. But their joy disappeared when Western tourists stopped going to Crimea for their vacations, and Russian tourists failed to take their place. Completely wrecking their economy. To fix this Russia has stared a bunch of Soviet style infrastructure programmes, all of which have been a disaster because of corruption. But great for the Crimean maffia. Making life in Crimea even worse. And now there's a war on .
barbos
Contributor
Yes, that was the thinking before western aggression, turned out that Russia was a country masquerading as a gas station which is now beating the crap out of collective West militarily and economically. Just for your information, according to your western estimates Russia will have economic growth in 2023.
barbos
Contributor
By the way, apparently at any given time Russians keep only about 500 men in trenches in Rabotnoe.
Of course it's not the only place where things are happening but it it gives you a scale of this operation on each side.
Mighty 60 thousands men ukrainian counter-offensive is being held up by 500 soldiers in trenches.
of course 30K of these 60K are dead already.
Of course it's not the only place where things are happening but it it gives you a scale of this operation on each side.
Mighty 60 thousands men ukrainian counter-offensive is being held up by 500 soldiers in trenches.
of course 30K of these 60K are dead already.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Maybe you don't know but satellite imagery of all russian defensive lines have been published long time ago
And ukro-wermacht HAVE NOT REACHED IT YET.
Ukro-regime HAVE to lie to its own people and to the west. Otherwise it's over.
Fun fact, ukro-regime HAVE YET TO ADMIT LOSS OF Bachmut.
That's not how wars work. There's a maxim among military history academics. Amateurs study tactics. While masters study logistics. Both sides will keep pushing and hope they destroy more military capacity faster than the other side can replace it. As long as Russia can keep up replacing losses, and make good guesses for where Ukraine will attack, the front will stay stable. The moment a front line is broken, it will collapse, leading to a rapid advance. Because any reserves behind the lines have already been used up.
You can can't just look at a map and think you know all that it going on. Ukraine used Bakhmut to bleed Russia dry. Russia had committed itself to take it for propaganda reasons. So Ukraine, wisely, didn't try to hang on. Instead they did a fighting retreat making Russia suffer every inch. And they did an excellent job. What Russia did in Bakhmut was idiotic. But Putin doesn't seem to care how many Russians die. So I guess it was worth it?
barbos
Contributor
Nope, but it was a nice bonus.
barbos
Contributor
Oh, we have admiral here. Was it you who thought that counter-offensive without air-superiority and men-superiority will work just fine?
Ukraine had no chance. Future historians will no doubt will ask the question how did that happen.
But it seems pentagon idiots believed their own shit. They believed that russians will run at the first sight of mighty ghost of Kiev Nato trained ukrainian army. Fucking cretins, made the same mistake Hitler and Napoleon did.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
WTF
1) Western aggression? What wester aggression?
2) Beating the crap? Russia is much bigger than Ukraine and richer. The war has been going on for 15 months. It's bizarre Russia is struggling this much. Russia is a kleptocracy and it's own worst enemy. So I guess it's doing the best it can.
3) Economically? Putin inflating the econometrics of Russia to make it look good, doesn't mean the economy is doing well. Of course it isn't. I used to do business in Russia. I can't do that now. I'm not alone. I've taken my business elsewhere. I know plenty of IT professionals who used to be Russia based, who have now moved all over the west. The talent is leaving Russia. This is just based what I am seeing in my own field.
4) Yes, Russia is little more than a gas station. This was as true during the communist regime, as it is now
barbos
Contributor
Yes, western agression.
You forgot that without western support Ukraine will fold within seconds. Your own nazi leaders said that, not me, your own EU fuhrers said that. The fact is, Ukraine lost this war three times already. These idiots are dying for nothing for the forth time.
barbos
Contributor
He must have fooled your own economists then. Good for him.
barbos
Contributor
Read what I said again
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
Bad enough young Russians are fleeing Vodkastan en masse.
Cheerful Charlie
Contributor
Ukraine is now manufactoring long range missiles that have a range of 950 kms. War is about to come to Russia. Kiss your airfields goodbye. You wanted war, you get war.
barbos
Contributor
yeah right. You can cut their support now, right?
barbos
Contributor
You would be surprised to hear but the title of Vodkastan is currently held by baltic states, Latvia I think, Moldova I know there too.
Russia is not even in the top 10.
TV and credit cards
Contributor
I gather most of my information and form opinion from Reuters and ISW, neither of which have given me any reason to distrust.
We vet our sources as best we can but in the end we all push the "I believe" button.
As far as Ukrainian corruption goes, first things first. Give them the tools to oust Russia then we'll concern ourselves with corruption. If funds to rebuild are squandered, we'll know it soon enough.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
I lived in Georgia (USA) in the early 1980s. A lady in our parish made regular trips back to Russia. She always packed her suitcase with rolls of toilet paper because it was hard to get in the Soviet Union. Maybe she was a double agent and used the toilet paper for bribe money.