• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

The Economist does a good piece on one now oft forgotten aspect of Ukraine. It's a corrupt mess of a nation. It's just as bad as Russia. Totally in the claws of the maffia. This was is well described as two networks of maffia organisations fighting eachother. These maffia networks are also transnational.

Now when the western nations prop up Ukraine, we need to be very careful so we don't make more of a mess than we'd get if we did nothing.


We don't don't want a repeat of Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc etc. The cold war was full of these. The west props up a corrupt regime, and then when the war is won it instantly reverts to an out-of-control kleptocracy where the democrtic principals are a joke.

I have seen very little evidence that Ukraine winning the war against Russia will benefit the Ukranian people. I still think we should protect Ukraine from Russian aggression. But that's more a question of geo-politics and containing any aggressor. Rather than helping the Ukranians. What Ukraine needs is heavy reforms. It has historically worked out. Germany and Japan are two examples of corrupt messes that turned out swimingly well. But both of those had heavy handed reforms. I can't see that happening for Ukraine. This is an entrenched maffia. It's going to need more than sternly formulated EU letters to swing these guys around.
Yes. Lets continue to distinguish between the good from the perfect.
 
You people live in a fantasy land.
That’s what every deluded resident of fantasyland thinks about the rest of humanity.
I don’t get how they can avoid the realization that they are lone voices hollering in the wilderness.
 
Anybody with toilet paper can probably get rich in Russia.
I lived in Georgia (USA) in the early 1980s. A lady in our parish made regular trips back to Russia. She always packed her suitcase with rolls of toilet paper because it was hard to get in the Soviet Union. Maybe she was a double agent and used the toilet paper for bribe money. :)
I can confirm that. And so was the situation in Ukraine and Baltic Republics.
In fact, I had not been aware that such thing even existed until the 90s.

So can we put this to rest?
 


Well, british challengers burn as well as germans tanks.
I find it interesting that german leopards were all destroyed without making a single shot.
Imagine that.
 
Last edited:
Seems comical about how easily Russia is managing this (while mocking Ukraine and the West) without being remotely come close to overtaking Ukraine yet. Is the West / Ukraine inept and powerless or not?
 
Seems comical about how easily Russia is managing this (while mocking Ukraine and the West) without being remotely come close to overtaking Ukraine yet. Is the West / Ukraine inept and powerless or not?
Defense is easier than offense. The west painted themselves into a corner with promise of counter-offensive.
Also russians might be timing their offensive with US elections. Imagine Russians starting offensive in winter, Biden in his bunker, drinking vodka with his degenerate son, planning their escape to where? Certainly not Argentina or Germany. Canada maybe? President Trump will get them in Canada.
We know Kiev regime decided to throw their last (high quality) reserves (challenger tanks and shit) which were marked for exploiting breaks in russian defence.
Once this last push exhausts itself they will have little army left. Time is on Russia's side.
 
The Economist does a good piece on one now oft forgotten aspect of Ukraine. It's a corrupt mess of a nation. It's just as bad as Russia.
Nope, Russia is not as bad as Ukraine, that's just a fact.
Facts are accurate representations of reality. I think you are using the Trumpian/Putin sense of the term which means “ any delusion that emits from my pie hole”.
 
So, Barbos is not going to answer my three questions. I would think he would be extolling how the war has made Russia more 'powerful' in the eyes of the world. How the Russian people and economy are better.

Over hear there are people, mostly republican conservatives, that will not acknowledged the scope and brutality of American slavery and the issues around it. One from congress recently said 'slaves were given job skills.

Solzhenitsyn petitioned out of schools? Like some in American slavery people in Russia do not want to think about the Soviet gulags. The forced labor of the Siberian railroad.

The Florida governor and legislature is trying to suppress teaching he facts of American slavery.

I can understand Barbos in that respect.

During the Cold War there was an above ground communist party in the USA. They even had a few political candidates. Russia never allows that kind of opposition views. Communism never took root. Nobody wanted it.

Today Russia outside of military aggressiveness is irrelevant over here. I have never seen anything made in Russia. Most of us are aware of French, British, Irish, German, Chinese, Italian, Japanese, and a few other cultures.

Russian not so much.

If Russia wants to improve make it attractive to investment, business, and most of all immgraion. Nobody wants to move to a police state. Reliable rule of law that does not bend to a dctor's wishes.

In Nazis Germany the courts gave in to the Nazis. Anyone declared an enemy of the state by the Nazis for any reason could be arrested. No rights. Sounds a lot like Russia today.
 
Solzhenitsyn petitioned out of schools?
Yes. The reason being, his "research" is garbage which was refuted by the actual research. Specifically his numbers are garbage and his material is based on tales of criminals (not political dissidents, just hardened murderers, thieves and other scum). Again, this is what I read some time ago. But yeah, his numbers considered to be ridiculous.
 
During the Cold War there was an above ground communist party in the USA. They even had a few political candidates. Russia never allows that kind of opposition views.
Zelensky banned opposition too.
And you keep equating modern Russia with USSR, that's ridiculous.
 
Seems comical about how easily Russia is managing this (while mocking Ukraine and the West) without being remotely come close to overtaking Ukraine yet. Is the West / Ukraine inept and powerless or not?
Defense is easier than offense.
Yes, Russia has really done a great job of demonstrating that.
The west painted themselves into a corner with promise of counter-offensive.
You seem to be under a misconception that Ukraine is fighting the same war that Russia is. Ukraine doesn't need to overtake Russia to win, while Russia needs to overtake Ukraine to win. The goals of the counter-offensive aren't remotely what you think they are.
Also russians might be timing their offensive with US elections.
This is very possible. Putin only started 18 months ago as a run up to the real invasion which will coincide with the US Election. That would seem incredibly stupid, but they are your words, not mine.
Imagine Russians starting offensive in winter, Biden in his bunker, drinking vodka with his degenerate son, planning their escape to where? Certainly not Argentina or Germany. Canada maybe? President Trump will get them in Canada.
I don't think Ukraine is rating high on the mind of the US voter.
 
You seem to be under a misconception that Ukraine is fighting the same war that Russia is. Ukraine doesn't need to overtake Russia to win, while Russia needs to overtake Ukraine to win. The goals of the counter-offensive aren't remotely what you think they are.
Russia does not need to overtake Ukraine by an immediate assault. All russia needs is to exhaust West and Ukraine. After that they can march to polish border or have easy negotiations.
This is very possible. Putin only started 18 months ago as a run up to the real invasion which will coincide with the US Election. That would seem incredibly stupid, but they are your words, not mine.
This is retarded. I have explained it many times. Plan was to force Ukraine to comply with Minsk Accords and it was practically achieved - Zelennsky agreed to all russian demands, practically immediately after the start of the SMO.
I don't think Ukraine is rating high on the mind of the US voter.
Oh, it will rate high, just wait, just wait. Trump will ask, how much money you stole from US taxpayers and gave it to corrupt nazi regime in Kiev and what are the results?
 
No Barbos you did not answer. Exactly how has the war benefited the Russian people. The short answer it has not. Has it lowered inflation? Has it promoted Russian tourism? Has it increased GDP and employment? Has it improved how the world views Russia?

Who wants to see Moscow when it is being attacked by drones? Who wmts to visit Moscow when you can be arested without any reason and made a political hostage?

Apparently Russian women can't find any good Russian men.

 
Youtube observers I watch are all western but either pro-russian or neutral.
The ones who are more interested in war tactics tends to be neutral and have been suggesting calling off this stupid counter-offensive.
I just hope nobody in Pentagon listens to them :)
 
Back
Top Bottom