How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[TV and credit cards]

In the west, our ability to reason is affected by our desire for social cohesion. We'll ignore some facts when it does not conform to our groupthink. When push comes to shove, we can leave the group and find one more to our liking, hopefully one with beliefs better grounded. For those who do not leave, the inability to reason within the group is exacerbated as time goes by. Group members wax nostalgic of their youth and become increasingly anxious about their future, whether that carefree life before will ever be again.

But what does a lifetime of propaganda of varying degrees do to a person's ability to reason, to search for pertinent facts instead of confirmation of long held beliefs. When a government uses some external boogieman as a reason for their country's ills? Always, always, always some enemy of the people. It would be understandable of a North Korean but of a Russian with what is for now (I’ll assume) unfettered internet access.

Well Barbos, I know you are completely incapable of understanding that article in context because your context is soured by a lifetime of propaganda. I think most anyone else here will come to the same conclusion about why Ukraine will not can not sign any agreement with Russia so I'll not waste time on that point.

 

[barbos]

There's reason to believe Russia?

Reading comprehension problems?

 

[barbos]

I don't even know what you think is interesting about this information. It was obvious that Russia fucked up the beginning of the illegal, immoral, and unprovoked invasion in 2022

You did not read the article, did you?
Let me make short version of it:
Current ukrainian regime guy who was the head of ukrainian delegation during March 2022 talks with russians admits that what Putin was/is saying is the truth. That includes russians saying that US/GB forced Ukraine to fight, it was not ukrainian decision, it was Biden's and his gang of deplorables like Nuland and Blinken who sent Boris to Ukraine.

 

[Copernicus]

I don't even know what you think is interesting about this information. It was obvious that Russia fucked up the beginning of the illegal, immoral, and unprovoked invasion in 2022

You did not read the article, did you?
Let me make short version of it:
Current ukrainian regime guy who was the head of ukrainian delegation during March 2022 talks with russians admits that what Putin was saying is the truth. That includes russians saying that US/GB forced Ukraine to fight, it was not ukrainian decision, it was Biden's and his gang of deplorables like Nuland and Blinken.

Nothing in that article says that Putin or his delegates were telling the truth about anything. No document for them to sign was ever produced. Moreover, if there had been such a document, they wouldn't agree to it, because they did not believe Russia would actually follow through on any agreement. Russia has no credibility. That's all that the article says.

Regarding Ukraine being "forced to fight"--not a word in the article saying anything about the US forcing any decision. No mention of Biden, Blinken, or Nuland. Barbos just added that to his "short version of it" because he pretends nobody would bother to read the article and check up on him.

 

[Elixir]

he pretends nobody would bother to read the article and check up on him.

Why bother? It wouldn’t matter to me if it all checked out anyhow. Babs has fabricated, prevaricated and paltered so consistently for so long that him saying something true about politics wouldn’t even move the third place after the two zeroes following the decimal point in his average.
Thanks for checking up on him again though, Copernicus

 

[Harry Bosch]

I don't even know what you think is interesting about this information. It was obvious that Russia fucked up the beginning of the illegal, immoral, and unprovoked invasion in 2022

You did not read the article, did you?
Let me make short version of it:
Current ukrainian regime guy who was the head of ukrainian delegation during March 2022 talks with russians admits that what Putin was/is saying is the truth. That includes russians saying that US/GB forced Ukraine to fight, it was not ukrainian decision, it was Biden's and his gang of deplorables like Nuland and Blinken who sent Boris to Ukraine.

?? Where does it say that? The larger issue that you missed is that

So, Davyd Arakhamia, the current head of of Elensky party (!!!!) in Ukrainian Parliament agrees with everything ..... russian "propaganda" and Putin have been saying.

I am trying to figure out why the puppet masters in Washington would let him say these things, what is their plan?
Title is of course misleading. You need to read what he said.

Head of Ukraine's leading party claims Russia proposed "peace" in exchange for neutrality

Davyd Arakhamiia, leader of the Servant of the People faction who led the Ukrainian delegation at "peace" talks with the Russians in Belarus and Türkiye in 2022, said that the Russian delegation promised Kyiv peace in exchange for refusing to join NATO, but the Ukrainians did not believe them.

news.yahoo.com

This guy should be an illustration to Sunken Cost fallacy.

There's reason to believe Russia?

None! I do trust that Russia will attack countries that are are smaller than it unless they are in NATO.

 

[barbos]

?? Where does it say that? The larger issue that you missed is that

It is common knowledge.

None! I do trust that Russia will attack countries that are are smaller than it unless they are in NATO.

There is plenty non NATO countries which have not been attacked. In fact, Russia have never attacked any non NATO country.
That's not really the point here. The point here is that everything what Putin/Russia were saying had been confirmed by ..... hgh ranking ukrainian who knows.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Kerch Strait is not a favourable geology for tunnelling, as it is a very deep cut filled with highly variable clays

Google sez … I found this:

The Kerch Strait connects the Black and Azov Seas (Figure 1). Its length is 40 km, width varies from 4.5 to 15 km. It is a shallow strait with average depth of 5-7 m and maximum depth of 18 m at its southern entrance..

Does the tunnel need to be through bedrock?

A seafloor tunnel could easily be flooded by a sufficiently large bomb. Any tunnel would have to be deep enough to be protected from charges on the sea floor.

 

[marc]

Maybe Elon Musk's Boring company is making a pitch behind the scenes, promising to do it faster, cheaper than any existing company. I could get behind that deal.

 

[Harry Bosch]

?? Where does it say that? The larger issue that you missed is that

It is common knowledge.

None! I do trust that Russia will attack countries that are are smaller than it unless they are in NATO.

There is plenty non NATO countries which have not been attacked. In fact, Russia have never attacked any non NATO country.
That's not really the point here. The point here is that everything what Putin/Russia were saying had been confirmed by ..... hgh ranking ukrainian who knows.

Put down the vodka! Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine is not in Nato. Ukraine wants in nato so that your invaders will leave it alone.

What has been confirmed?

 

[barbos]

Put down the vodka! Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine is not in Nato.

You put down the vodka. Ukraine was de-facto in NATO. They even put NATO membership into their stupid constitution.

 

[barbos]

What has been confirmed?

Everything russian "propaganda" had been saying.

 

[Elixir]

What has been confirmed?

Everything russian "propaganda" had been saying.

I want some of that vodka!

 

[Harry Bosch]

Put down the vodka! Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine is not in Nato.

You put down the vodka. Ukraine was de-facto in NATO. They even put NATO membership into their stupid constitution.

Do the Russian people honestly think that they are fighting Nato troops in Ukraine? If so, why have no nato troops died in Ukraine?

 

[Harry Bosch]

What has been confirmed?

Everything russian "propaganda" had been saying.

Are you incapable of being specific? The only thing that I saw in the article that somewhat bolsters your argument was Boris Johnson advising Ukraine to not trust Russia. Any four-year could tell them that. Russia can't be trusted to abide by any treaty. Ukraine will never be safe from Russia until the imperialists are out of their country and they are in a significant alliance that will dissuade Russia from invading again.

 

[barbos]

Are you incapable of being specific? The only thing that I saw in the article that somewhat bolsters your argument was Boris Johnson advising Ukraine to not trust Russia.

That's absolutely not what Arakhamia and Russian Propaganda before him said.
You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[barbos]

Do the Russian people honestly think that they are fighting Nato troops in Ukraine?

Absolutely 100%. Russian people think that they are fighting NATO, which attacked Russia.
In fact, "ukrainians" think that. Even NATO thinks that.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ventilating a 19 km long tunnel under water is gonna be a bitch. In New York, building bridges meant deep digging to make deep foundations for bridge piers. Miners died because of decompression coming to the surface. The bends. Would Kersh tunnel travelers likewise have similar problems?

The tunnel wouldn't be at seafloor pressure. Besides, even if the tunnel were at seafloor pressure you could safely drive through it without requiring a decompression stop. You would only get in trouble if you spent too long down there.

 

[Elixir]

Do the Russian people honestly think that they are fighting Nato troops in Ukraine?

Absolutely 100%. Russian people think that they are fighting NATO, which attacked Russia.
In fact, "ukrainians" think that. Even NATO thinks that.

Babs’ psychic abilities are legend.
In Russia.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Do the Russian people honestly think that they are fighting Nato troops in Ukraine?

Absolutely 100%. Russian people think that they are fighting NATO, which attacked Russia.
In fact, "ukrainians" think that. Even NATO thinks that.

Odd, how the dead soldiers seem to Ukrainian.