How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Loren Pechtel]

First off, why would Ukraine trust Russia in any kind of settlement? Russia word is crap. Secondly how is Russia threatened by a sovereign country on its border?

Quit denigrating crap. At least it's useful as fertilizer.

 

[laughing dog]

Russia has no choice but to defeat this US Proxy war. Otherwise Russia is no more.

Nobody's going to destroy Russia other than from internal problems.

That is correct. What Russia knows and fears is that no one cares about it - Russia would be rightly ignored by the world if it did not create havoc.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It appears that barbos has now decided that Russia includes all of the territories that Catherine II gobbled up in 1795, when it worked out an agreement to the Austrian and German empires to partition what was left of Poland. Galicia was the part that got sucked into the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Russia took the lion's share of Poland, which extended halfway into modern Poland and seems to have been the basis of the agreement between Stalin and his ally, Hitler, when they agreed to repartition Poland with the  Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. He apparently takes 1795 as some kind of magical year in which Russia's legitimate borders were established--the furthest westward extent of the Russian Empire until its collapse. Now, with the collapse of the Soviet empire in the 1991, he apparently has bought into Putin's ultranationalist program for using pre-revolutionary Russia as the justification of territorial claims for its aggressive imperialism.

Same thing Islam does.

However, there are areas which both will claim by this measure.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Russia has no choice but to defeat this US Proxy war. Otherwise Russia is no more.

Nobody's going to destroy Russia other than from internal problems.

That is correct. What Russia knows and fears is that no one cares about it - Russia would be rightly ignored by the world if it did not create havoc.

And for people not so inclined we have the Navalny effect, end up poisoned and imprisoned in Siberia for voicing political dissent. Russia is a nice place to live if you are either a slave or a master.

 

[barbos]

Russia has no choice but to defeat this US Proxy war. Otherwise Russia is no more.

Nobody's going to destroy Russia other than from internal problems.

Yep, that was the plan, create internal problems leading to destruction.
You CAN learn.

 

[barbos]

Yes this post is spot on. I’ve always felt that Russians do not respect private property and sovereignty.

That's ironic for you to say. I am talking about West trying to steal russian assets. And report about Pentagon official visits to ... Crimea right after Nazi Coup in 2014.

This is rather rich coming from a person who has never experienced civil freedoms like are lived in the west. If one has been "happily" enslaved for generations including up to the present I can understand the mindset to a point but cannot appreciate it fully.

Dude, your democratic government is stealing money, blowing up pipelines, invading other countries and assassinating democratically elected presidents. You should be the last person talking about liberty,

 

[barbos]

At one point you took it by force.

Nope. go learn some history. You can do that, I know you can.

 

[barbos]

USA is a hegemon over most of the world today. Much like Russia is the hegemon over most of the old Soviet block. The difference lies in that the US president is a better emperor than the Russian president.

Have you asked libyans? serbs? vietnamese?

 

[barbos]

They have no choice.

Of course they have a choice, they can surrender and live happily ever after in Russia.

Happily ever after? It's clear that you intend to genocide them.

That's a stupidest thing you have said in a while.

 

[barbos]

Do you know where Gonzalo Lira is?

 

[DrZoidberg]

They have no choice.

Of course they have a choice, they can surrender and live happily ever after in Russia.

The war will continue until Russians get tired

Right, and ukrainians are never get tired.
Let me explain it to you. There is a good chance that Nazi will not get any money from you in January.
None, zilch, nada! Even if they get something it won't last past your elections. And money is not the only problem they have.
They are running out of willing idiots to fight Russia. Ukraine has no money to support war, west has no weapons to send, Ukraine has no men to man these weapons which you don't have.
You're screwed. Your best hope is to make republicans to vote for $60bil and tell Ukraine to not collapse until November so that Senile in Chief walking dead has a chance at reelection.

Russia is also using more munitions than it can theoretically produce. Both sides are living on borrowed time. Its a copy of the situation we had in WWI. Its a war of attrition.

They will fight to the death.

Puh-leeze. Ease up on CNN.

Russia has no choice but to defeat this US Proxy war. Otherwise Russia is no more.

Sure. But is Russia worth defending? Won't the world be better off without a Russian empire? Its not like USA (or anyone) needs Russia. Russia has been aggressively dominating its neighbours and grabbing territory because it can. Its done this Its entire existence. Russia is an old feudal state operating on feudal premises. But the world has moved on. Just controlling vast tracts of land isn't worth much in the age of industry and free trade.

Ukraine is almost as corrupt as Russia. Its hard to muster nationalist pride for a corrupt regime. I think they're fighting for the hope of breaking free from Russian domination, because its nicer in the west. Just the hope that stuff might work out. But it might not. USA winning a war is no guarantee things will change for the better.

The only thing Ukrainians know for a sure is that if they don't fight Russia will continue to break them and keep them weak.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Ukraine claims to have destroyed the Russian landing ship Novocherkassk
Russia claims what you are seeing is a smoldering butt kit.
I don't know. What do you think?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Yes this post is spot on. I’ve always felt that Russians do not respect private property and sovereignty.

That's ironic for you to say. I am talking about West trying to steal russian assets. And report about Pentagon official visits to ... Crimea right after Nazi Coup in 2014.

This is rather rich coming from a person who has never experienced civil freedoms like are lived in the west. If one has been "happily" enslaved for generations including up to the present I can understand the mindset to a point but cannot appreciate it fully.

Dude, your democratic government is stealing money, blowing up pipelines, invading other countries and assassinating democratically elected presidents. You should be the last person talking about liberty,

Clearly an understandable and not unexpected case of projection. No facts, not even a respectable counter argument, just more blather. If members of a society are threatened and imprisoned simply for voicing dissent and practicing freedom of speech then clearly that society is a shithole. Ruskies can't even protest without being jailed. Pretty sad. I really feel bad for you guys.

I also understand the survival benefit of clinging to an abusive guardian. Do you ever wonder if you and your fellows will ever be able to have even basic freedoms? I don't know what enslavement is like even though the word is derived from the experiences faced by my ancestors. Again, I really feel bad for you guys.

 

[barbos]

Russia is also using more munitions than it can theoretically produce.

And? Nobody knows how much Russia can theoretically produce. The last guy who tried to find out is im Russian Prison.
Russia, right now produces more ammunition than the whole "Free" World combined. And ratio is only going to get worse for you.

Sure. But is Russia worth defending?

Absolutely.

 

[barbos]

Yes this post is spot on. I’ve always felt that Russians do not respect private property and sovereignty.

That's ironic for you to say. I am talking about West trying to steal russian assets. And report about Pentagon official visits to ... Crimea right after Nazi Coup in 2014.

This is rather rich coming from a person who has never experienced civil freedoms like are lived in the west. If one has been "happily" enslaved for generations including up to the present I can understand the mindset to a point but cannot appreciate it fully.

Dude, your democratic government is stealing money, blowing up pipelines, invading other countries and assassinating democratically elected presidents. You should be the last person talking about liberty,

Clearly an understandable and not unexpected case of projection. No facts, not even a respectable counter argument, just more blather. If members of a society are threatened and imprisoned simply for voicing dissent and practicing freedom of speech then clearly that society is a shithole. Ruskies can't even protest without being jailed. Pretty sad. I really feel bad for you guys.

Are you high? What are you talking about?
It is you who does not provide any counter-argument.
I repeat again. Your government is in process of stealing russian assets right now. What do you have to say for yourself?

 

[barbos]

Ruskies can't even protest without being jailed.

I don't see you protesting jailing of Gonzalo Lira by your puppet nazi regime.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Yes this post is spot on. I’ve always felt that Russians do not respect private property and sovereignty.

That's ironic for you to say. I am talking about West trying to steal russian assets. And report about Pentagon official visits to ... Crimea right after Nazi Coup in 2014.

This is rather rich coming from a person who has never experienced civil freedoms like are lived in the west. If one has been "happily" enslaved for generations including up to the present I can understand the mindset to a point but cannot appreciate it fully.

Dude, your democratic government is stealing money, blowing up pipelines, invading other countries and assassinating democratically elected presidents. You should be the last person talking about liberty,

Clearly an understandable and not unexpected case of projection. No facts, not even a respectable counter argument, just more blather. If members of a society are threatened and imprisoned simply for voicing dissent and practicing freedom of speech then clearly that society is a shithole. Ruskies can't even protest without being jailed. Pretty sad. I really feel bad for you guys.

Are you high? What are you talking about?
It is you who does not provide any counter-argument.
I repeat again. Your government is in process of stealing russian assets right now. What do you have to say for yourself?

More blather, deflection and unevidenced claims. Just standard stuff not unexpected. Sad.

 

[barbos]

Ukraine is almost as corrupt as Russia.

What are you smoking? Ukraine is waya way way way corrupt than Russia.

 

[barbos]

unevidenced claims.

That's official, you have gone totally mad.

Why the EU will not seize Russian state assets to rebuild Ukraine

It fears the precedent of undermining state immunity under international law

www.economist.com

 

[DrZoidberg]

Ukraine is almost as corrupt as Russia.

What are you smoking? Ukraine is waya way way way corrupt than Russia.

That was true before Euromaidan. Not anymore. They've managed to clean house a lot after Viktor Yanukovych got kicked out. Russia was always the root of the problem. The more they're aligned to Russia the more corrupt it gets.

If Ukraine manages to break free from Russian domination there's no reason it won't develop on a similar trajectory to Poland. There's no guarantees for success. But staying with Russia is a guarantee nothing will change