How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[bilby]

I think you may be trying very hard to allude to a falsehood: that the US has done to its neighbors what Russia has done to theirs.

That's not a falsehood; It's history.

The difference is that the USA has mostly stopped doing it, as did most European nations, after the two World Wars of the first half of the twentieth century.

Russia never seems to learn.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They were defeated and pushed out

They should have “talked”, right? That way they could belong to the US, just like Ukraine will belong to Russian should they be foolish enough to talk instead of fighting..
Your hypocrisy is showing, Aupy.

Anyhow, the fact remains: the USA has not occupied any other country. You may think that’s because the United States is less powerful than say, Panama for instance, which speaks to the fact that you are completely deluded.

Ponder this: the USA has never attempted to subjugate its neighbors.
Russia has tried to subjugate every neighbor it ever had, except China.

They have fought.

But you're missing one they didn't: Norway. I see no indication there have been hostilities. I missed it in an earlier discussion but there is a small border between them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This isn't difficult. You and I agree that Russia does not want peace with its neighbors.

No, I want peace with all neighbors, except current Ukraine. They've talked enough trash that I want to give them a lesson.

Talking trash is not a justification for war.

Especially since the lesson has been the other way around--your army has been shown to be pathetic compared to what everyone thought it was. The 2022 invasion was an epic mistake.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

WUT?
Did we win the war against Canada?

No, you lost. And the Whitehouse got burned for your trouble.

Huh?

First, that war was with England.

Second, while the White House got burned we prevailed in the war.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

As to your claim that Finland would try to promise Russia that there would not be major NATO forces, it is not true. This very day the news has it that Finland wants to have NATO Forward Land Forces deployed in the country.

We are not worried about a thousand drunken sailors from UK/Germany/US landing in Finland.
We are worried about certain types of military hardware.

Drunken Russian sailors at the bottom of the sea.

 

[bilby]

First, that war was with England.

Who owned Canada. And it was the US invasion of Canada that kicked it all off.

 

[bilby]

Second, while the White House got burned we prevailed in the war.

Yeah, when your war achieves zero of its objectives, and results in the sacking of your nation's capital, you can't claim, with a straight face, to have won. So let's go with "prevailed".

 

[Elixir]

WUT?
Did we win the war against Canada?

No, you lost. And the Whitehouse got burned for your trouble.

That’s a stretch. It were the redcoats!

 

[ZiprHead]

The chaotic US withdrawal from Afghanistan, the US looks weak.

Nit pick. Russia started putting troops at Ukraine's border months before the Afghan withdrawel.

 

[ZiprHead]

Ukraine was not about to join NATO. The invasion was motivated purely by irredentism

That have been discussed to death already, go and read.

I am familiar with that tactic from debating creationists in my younger days. Just keep claiming something and then just say "I have already answered that".

That's what you are doing.
I have answered this question million times, but if you insist:
Kiev Regime was a de-facto NATO member - occupied, armed and supported by NATO, ready to slaughter russian population in the breakaway regions, with ultimate goal to provoke Russia into a war with Ukraine and then subjecting Russia to a strategic defeat through sanctions, regime change following splitting into 5 parts. That was openly stated at neocon conferences. Ukraine was/is nothing but a tool to destroy Russia.

Sorry. Not enough laughing dogs to counter that whopper.

 

[Elixir]

Russia started putting troops at Ukraine's border months before the Afghan withdrawel.

Yes, it was a brilliantly conceived, meticulously planned three day assault of overwhelming force, with minimal bloodshed leading to a Russian flag flying over Kiev.

But it turned out to be a really stupid, badly executed hamfisted failure resulting in an almost three years-and-counting war costing Russia its image as a great good fairly respectable military power, hundreds of thousands of lives of its “expendables”, its economy and whatever was left of its reputation as a fair or trustworthy player on the world stage.

Oh well. Maybe Pootey will be succeeded by someone with a brain and a conscience.

 

[ZiprHead]

NATO isn't a threat to anyone. It's a defensive alliance only. It's just an impediment to those with an eye for conquest.

Ask the Russians or the Chinese.

You aren't paying attention to how things work.
There is a very simple reason they can't join NATO: War and territorial dispute. Both prevent entry into NATO.

You missed Ziprhead's post. https://iidb.org/threads/how-should...vasion-of-ukraine.25317/page-745#post-1190981

All that post says is that the Ukrainian people support joining NATO. That doesn't change the fact that it is against NATO rules to admit entry to a country in confict with another.

 

[Elixir]

Second, while the White House got burned we prevailed in the war.

Yeah, when your war achieves zero of its objectives, and results in the sacking of your nation's capital, you can't claim, with a straight face, to have won. So let's go with "prevailed".

Yeah, we would only have “won” if we had made the King rebuild the WH for us.

 

[ZiprHead]

Speaking of pathological liars in Ukraine. This is really weird phenomena. if you ask me.
But it's worse, it's lies multiplied by immense and open corruption. Videos of mobilization officers driving recently bought expensive sport cars not even trying to hide it. Children of the prominent government critters who were sent to the West just in time who are drinking in clubs. And people who maidanned Yanukovich for corruption they say? are sitting tight.
Afraid to revolt now?

You always claim this sort of thing yet you never post the videos.

And you wonder why nobody believes you.

 

[ZiprHead]

Why are you wasting entropy replying with this nonsense?

That's a question we've been asking ourselves since December 5th, 2021.

 

[Elixir]

If arms stop flowing to Ukraine, there will be a bloodbath there. And Russian imperialism will continue.

And if they don’t?
The bloodbath will continue.
The only difference will be that most of the blood will be RussoNazi, not Ukranian. But the blood will continue to flow until the Russian dictator is deposed or assassinated. And babs will continue to blame everyone and anyone for Russia’s failings, its crimes against humanity and its incredibly stupid KGB grunt who has been playing dictator.

 

[barbos]

Speaking of pathological liars in Ukraine. This is really weird phenomena. if you ask me.
But it's worse, it's lies multiplied by immense and open corruption. Videos of mobilization officers driving recently bought expensive sport cars not even trying to hide it. Children of the prominent government critters who were sent to the West just in time who are drinking in clubs. And people who maidanned Yanukovich for corruption they say? are sitting tight.
Afraid to revolt now?

You always claim this sort of thing yet you never post the videos.

You want me to start posting videos in russian in large numbers?

And you wonder why nobody believes you.

You have independent poll to support it. I don't believe your ridiculous claim.

 

[barbos]

The chaotic US withdrawal from Afghanistan, the US looks weak.

Nit pick. Russia started putting troops at Ukraine's border months before the Afghan withdrawel.

Nit pick. Russia knew you were planning to attack Russia months before you started Afghan withdrawal.

 

[barbos]

This isn't difficult. You and I agree that Russia does not want peace with its neighbors.

No, I want peace with all neighbors, except current Ukraine. They've talked enough trash that I want to give them a lesson.

Talking trash is not a justification for war.

We don't do wars, we do special military operation a.k.a. "beating"

Especially since the lesson has been the other way around--your army has been shown to be pathetic compared to what everyone thought it was. The 2022 invasion was an epic mistake.

Fine, Ukraine is winning, there is nothing to talk about, all you need to do is wait. Please leave the thread and return when Ukrainian Army is parading in Moscow.

 

[barbos]

Regarding Russian versus American style imperialism. The first order of business when I become president of Russia, would be denouncing recognition of Texas and New Mexico as part of US. USA Russia will never accept illegal annexation of Crimea Texas/New Mexico from Ukraine Mexico.
Texas/New Mexico is a part of Mexico.