How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[aupmanyav]

Because they were offensive missiles pointed at us. Not anything to do with anybody's relations with Cuba.

Russia too fears that membership to NATO will lead to missiles pointed at Russia in those countries.

Elixir: 'They were talking with Russia for many years. It accomplished nothing.'
Aup.: Perhaps they went in with conditions not acceptable to Russia. That is not the correct way to talk.

 

[barbos]

They can’t do shit against a much smaller and weaker country

You are aware that whole West is supplying Ukraine?
And even with that, Ukraine has 5-10 times higher losses.

If your loss numbers for Ukraine were accurate the war would be over because they wouldn't have a force anymore.

We are almost there.

 

[barbos]

143 out of 183 countries? That's an overwhelming majority and if you think NATO is that large, you've just forfeited all credibility.

You need to account for populations of said "countries".
Some of them are smaller than chinese villages. Some of them have population of just 1 person.

Holy crap! That got to be in the top ten of the greatest idiocy every posted on this board.

Yes, getting signature of that dude in Turkey as if he was a country was idiotic.
Same with signatures from EU assholes. They are not countries and they were not democratically elected.

Says the guy that lives in a dictatorship.

Not really. The Russian System is not perfect but it is certainly not a dictatorship.
You, on the other hand, live in a system where government lies and treat some dude in Turkey as if he was a country in order trump up the number of countries which support their aggression against Russia.

 

[barbos]

To me, it's real simple equation: we should trade with countries that are friendly or neutral to us. If a country invades another country; they should be cut off.

OK. But sanctions do not work. Look at countries which have been put under sanctions.

IMF just inducted Russia into a list of "High Income" countries. I think sanctions worked pretty well, just not for the West.

 

[barbos]

Why should the west believe you? The Baltics sure don't. Poland sure doesn't.

How do you know that?
Why should Russia believe anything you say? You have zero credibility.

MSN

Baltic States governments are not the countries themselves. In fact, they are puppets of regime in Washington.
They all report to Jake Sullivan, who himself was never elected to any post. Some democracies.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Oh, stop watching conspiracy theory videos.
Its just ridiculous.

I don't know, but Russia-Ukraine war is playing like that only, like a great conspiracy.

No, it's not. The Ukraine - Russia conflict is one of the most straight forward in modern history. Russia wants what Ukraine has and doesn't feel they need to ask nicely to get it.

Russia is an aggressive imperialistic country that is opportunistically attacking anyone they think they can get away with. They have been doing this since the 1500's. The rest of the west stopped doing this following WWII. Russia just kept going.

You have clearly been suckered in by Putin's preposterous propaganda. As has Barbos. Russia has no justification for attacking Ukraine. They just don't. Putin is following the standard fascist (or communist) playbook. Just flooding eyeballs with bullshit it trying to grind down our resistance by sheer volume of crap

Totally correct. All the talk about Russia's fear of Nato and the Nazis is just nonsense meant to confuse the foolish. Russia is a typical imperialist. Russia wants more land, more elbow room, water for Crimea; farm land and loot.

The reason NATO has been continually growing is because it needs to. Just to defend against Russian aggression. If Russia would accept being a normal country, and not an empire, NATO would be reduced to a bunch of scouts having coffee together.

I understand the Russian perspective. They had a big empire before WW1. Following the revolution they spent all of their efforts to keep together as much as they could. And then Stalin just went full fascist imperialist, essentially copying the behaviour of earlier Tsars. Just with a lot more bullshit and propaganda.

At the end of WW2 there was no illusions about what Russia was. Hence the "iron curtain" comment.

At the end of communism in 1991, Russia again fell apart and they tried their best to keep it together. And that's where Russia still is now.

Putin is trying to maintain and expand Russian domination of its neighbours.

Why? Good question. In today's economic paradigm peace, stability and open borders benefit us all. What flag is where is less and less important. As long as we have peace and stability, all is good.

There is no benefit of having an empire today. Today's empires are corporations. Not countries. The richest men today are all industrialists. Not emperors or presidents. Putin just didn't get the memo.

 

[DrZoidberg]

To me, it's real simple equation: we should trade with countries that are friendly or neutral to us. If a country invades another country; they should be cut off.

OK. But sanctions do not work. Look at countries which have been put under sanctions.

Yes, they do. They hurt the target of sanctions. In the age of total war, it all matters. When you have broken a countries economy, then you have broken their military capabilities.

Just because the direct effect is less apparent, don't make the mistake to think it's not real

 

[bilby]

To me, it's real simple equation: we should trade with countries that are friendly or neutral to us. If a country invades another country; they should be cut off.

OK. But sanctions do not work. Look at countries which have been put under sanctions.

You mean like Rhodesia, the Japanese Empire, or Apartheid South Africa?

Oh, wait. None of those still exist.

So, you were saying how sanctions do not work...

 

[SLD]

They can’t do shit against a much smaller and weaker country

You are aware that whole West is supplying Ukraine?
And even with that, Ukraine has 5-10 times higher losses.

If your loss numbers for Ukraine were accurate the war would be over because they wouldn't have a force anymore.

We are almost there.

You said that two years ago.

 

[aupmanyav]

Just because the direct effect is less apparent, don't make the mistake to think it's not real

Russia has friends (not talking about India, we are every one's friends except for Pakistan. We are friends to China too, so what if we have a little unresolved problem with them). We are friends to Pakistani people too. Only their military establishment and their clerics are not friends to us.

 

[aupmanyav]

So, you were saying how sanctions do not work...

What about Iran and Russia?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

To me, it's real simple equation: we should trade with countries that are friendly or neutral to us. If a country invades another country; they should be cut off.

OK. But sanctions do not work. Look at countries which have been put under sanctions.

You mean like Rhodesia, the Japanese Empire, or Apartheid South Africa?

Oh, wait. None of those still exist.

So, you were saying how sanctions do not work...

You seem to be forgetting that aupmanyav is not a student of history. None of that matters because it's in the past.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

We are friends to Pakistani people too. Only their military establishment and their clerics are not friends to us.

Apparently because they are not people.

 

[bilby]

So, you were saying how sanctions do not work...

What about Iran and Russia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

 

[aupmanyav]

You seem to be forgetting that aupmanyav is not a student of history. None of that matters because it's in the past.

Yeah, past is past like in football or cricket or politics. Greeks invaded India, they are not going to do that now. Modi got 303 seats in 2019, got only 230 in 2024. I find it funny when ESPN gives cricket statistics from old times, Don Bradman, Frank Worrell or Gary Sobers. What has that got to do with today's players?

 

[aupmanyav]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

They are doing fairly well, and sanctions have not stopped the wars.
Russia's foreign exchange reserves have increased. Up by USD 300 million during the last month.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-exchange_reserves#List

 

[Tammuz]

Why? Good question. In today's economic paradigm peace, stability and open borders benefit us all. What flag is where is less and less important. As long as we have peace and stability, all is good.

Indeed, as the Good Friday Agreement shows. I don't think any of the involved parties in Northern Ireland view it as ideal, but rather as a compromise that they can live with, as evident by that it has been quite calm in Northern Ireland since its establishment.

There is no benefit of having an empire today. Today's empires are corporations. Not countries. The richest men today are all industrialists. Not emperors or presidents. Putin just didn't get the memo.

I don't think Putin is waging war because he is after money or resources. To recreate the Russian Empire (and it is the Tsarist empire, not the USSR, that he fancies) is his life project. It gives his life meaning in the same way as, for example, being an environmentalist activist gives meaning to Greta Thunberg, or working to advance liberal democracy gives meaning to George Soros.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Ukraine Drone Attack Halts Key Russian Electrometallurgical Plant

Kamikaze drones targeted two major electrical substations in the Belgorod region: the Stary Oskol substation and the Metallurgicheskaya substation, one of the largest in Europe.

www.kyivpost.com

The de-energization caused all electric arc furnaces to stop, with the metal inside freezing. Restarting the plant will require extensive cleaning and replacement of arc elements, potentially taking several months.
Some workers believe new furnaces might be needed, and since the plant was built using German technology, German expertise may be required to resume operations

Promising.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Why? Good question. In today's economic paradigm peace, stability and open borders benefit us all. What flag is where is less and less important. As long as we have peace and stability, all is good.

Indeed, as the Good Friday Agreement shows. I don't think any of the involved parties in Northern Ireland view it as ideal, but rather as a compromise that they can live with, as evident by that it has been quite calm in Northern Ireland since its establishment.

There is no benefit of having an empire today. Today's empires are corporations. Not countries. The richest men today are all industrialists. Not emperors or presidents. Putin just didn't get the memo.

I don't think Putin is waging war because he is after money or resources. To recreate the Russian Empire (and it is the Tsarist empire, not the USSR, that he fancies) is his life project. It gives his life meaning in the same way as, for example, being an environmentalist activist gives meaning to Greta Thunberg, or working to advance liberal democracy gives meaning to George Soros.

I think the Ukraine war is about the newly discovered natural gas reserves in Ukraine. Putin had a near monopoly on selling gas to Germany.

What a surprise Putin only wants Luhansk, Doetsk and Crimea. The areas with the gas deposits.

I'm pretty sure this is the sum total of the reason for Putin attacking

 

[Harry Bosch]

Why? Good question. In today's economic paradigm peace, stability and open borders benefit us all. What flag is where is less and less important. As long as we have peace and stability, all is good.

Indeed, as the Good Friday Agreement shows. I don't think any of the involved parties in Northern Ireland view it as ideal, but rather as a compromise that they can live with, as evident by that it has been quite calm in Northern Ireland since its establishment.

There is no benefit of having an empire today. Today's empires are corporations. Not countries. The richest men today are all industrialists. Not emperors or presidents. Putin just didn't get the memo.

I don't think Putin is waging war because he is after money or resources. To recreate the Russian Empire (and it is the Tsarist empire, not the USSR, that he fancies) is his life project. It gives his life meaning in the same way as, for example, being an environmentalist activist gives meaning to Greta Thunberg, or working to advance liberal democracy gives meaning to George Soros.

I think the Ukraine war is about the newly discovered natural gas reserves in Ukraine. Putin had a near monopoly on selling gas to Germany.

What a surprise Putin only wants Luhansk, Doetsk and Crimea. The areas with the gas deposits.

I'm pretty sure this is the sum total of the reason for Putin attacking

Totally agree.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/natural-resources-ukraine-war-1.6467039

Barbos always complains about the maiden revolution in 2014. The real deal in 2014 Ukraine was close to securing a black sea drilling deal either Chevron or Shell. Ukraine also probably has the largest amount of rare earth minerals in the world.