How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[steve_bank]

There are so many atrocities committed against Poland by Russia. Hard to believe that Barbos didn’t know this.

And atrocities committed by Poland against Russia before that and long long before that, what is your point?
And it's not hard to believe you don't know that. Only Russia did bad, everything we do is bad, everything you do is good, right?

Bad acts as a matter of government policy and ideology.

You said you went to one the Soviet schools for kids with talent. I am sure you were thoroughly indoctrinate into communism and Russian policy.

We had slavery and a civil war. A long period of black suppression, no one denies that. We ahve a system for peaceful change, in the long run there was civil rights laws leading to Obama as president and a potential mixed race woman as the next president.

We have the capacity to correct ourselves in the long run. A big part of that is free press, free speech, and free elections. Things which do not exist in Russia.

Any system that systematically suppresses fundamental rights is bad.

The western systems post war divested of colonies. We gave up the Philippines. Japan and Germany are today independent. In contrast Stalin through Putin Russia is in the old empire frame of mind. Wars to take land and suppression of entire populations. That was the Nazis.

Right now Putin's Russia is a cancer on the world. He wants to make war while Europe wants to make wine and cheese, and kick back enjoying life. Like the Olympics in Paris. People from around the world partying in Paris.

And while this is happens in Paris Putin is trying to bend Ukraine to his will and raining destruction.

 

[steve_bank]

Three african countries complained to UN about Ukraine's support of islamic terrorism in their countries.

There must be a Russian conspiracy network in Russia online like our crazy extreme right has. Probably supported by the Russian government.

 

[barbos]

Three african countries complained to UN about Ukraine's support of islamic terrorism in their countries.

There must be a Russian conspiracy network in Russia online like our crazy extreme right has. Probably supported by the Russian government.

Sorry, don't follow.

 

[barbos]

You said you went to one the Soviet schools for kids with talent. I am sure you were thoroughly indoctrinate into communism and Russian policy.

No, I was not. In fact the opposite is true because in that school we literally had none of that shit. everything was math/physics. There was no regular subjects like history/geography, even russian language and .... surprisingly chemistry was dropped. Biology was dropped too. The only subject not related to science was russian literature and virtually everyone including girls ignored it. You created absolutely ridiculous views on life in USSR.
Moreover, scientists (at least in late USSR) usually were not even members of communist party.

 

[barbos]

We have the capacity to correct ourselves in the long run. A big part of that is free press, free speech, and free elections.

But you don't have any of that. You believe you have that, but you don't

 

[barbos]

Right now Putin's Russia is a cancer on the world. He wants to make war while Europe wants to make wine and cheese,

This is patently false. The opposite is true. It's America who is a cancer on the world and it's America who wants and regularly make wars.

 

[barbos]

We had slavery and a civil war. A long period of black suppression, no one denies that. We ahve a system for peaceful change, in the long run there was civil rights laws leading to Obama as president and a potential mixed race woman as the next president.

You forgot gay rights. Speaking of which and your first Black President (that would be Barack Obama)
I remember when you legalized gay marriages I think and Obama was talking about it.
Do you remember the one of the first thing he mentioned? I will give you a hint it start with "Rus" and ends with "sia"
One day gay marriage was illegal, the next day it became legal and Obama says "Russia does not have it, Russia is backward country, Russia needs to have it" For fuck's sake, wait a little (20 years maybe), and remember that a lot of your allies like say Japan (not to mention Saudi Arabia) don't have it either.

We did not have slavery and racism either, does that make us backward too?

And this is one your smartest recent presidents. And Kamala is not smart.

 

[steve_bank]

A [Russian] ignorant of his own history repeating things he is told. No comprehension.

Possibly a consequence of being indoctrinated in the old Soviet Union.

After the war there were young Nazis who were given a pass because they were indoctrinated from a young age with no exposure to anything else. They lacked the capacity and context to make a choice.

 

[barbos]

The western systems post war divested of colonies. We gave up the Philippines. Japan and Germany are today independent.

Russia did not have colonies to divest of. And you did not divest, you created an illusion, in reality you kept puppet regimes in there which were not really allowed to decide for themselves. And african countries had to fight you and your puppet regimes to achieve independence.

 

[barbos]

Germany and Europe as a whole are not independent countries, They are still under US occupation.
It may not be very harsh occupation but it is occupation nevertheless. US blew up german gas pipeline and Germany can't say anything. Before that, CIA/NSA were listening to Merkel's phone conversations - nothing. Germany is still under US occupation. Don't get me wrong, maybe it's a good thing, I don't know, but it is a fact.

 

[barbos]

Speaking of Germany. Their economy was great in large part due to cheap Russian Natural Gas.
NordStream was blown by Biden and now EU are banning russian oil and gas to Slovakia/Hungary violating their own exemption given to them. EU simply allowed Ukraine to stop the transit. EU leadership is completely owned by US interests.
I can bet that they have no interest in EU well being. All they care is what US oligarchs promise them nice retirement in case they do what US business wants.

 

[Henry-Finland]

Whatever our problems we know what freedom feels like and will fight for it. NATO if attacked will fight for it. I am sure Poland remembers what the Russians did to them

What? what did we do to them, tell us.

"The Katyn massacre<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre#cite_note-2"><span>[</span>a<span>]</span></a> was a series of mass executions of nearly 22,000 Polish military and police officers, border guards, and intelligentsia prisoners of war carried out by the Soviet Union, specifically the NKVD (the Soviet secret police), at Stalin's order in April and May 1940."

500,000 Polish nationals imprisoned before June 1941 (90% male)[1]
22,000 Polish military personnel and officials killed in the Katyn massacre alone[2]
320,000 Poles deported to Siberia in 1939-1941[3]
100,000 women raped during the Soviet counter-offensive (est.)[4]
150,000 killed by the Soviets[5]

Soviet repressions of Polish citizens (1939–1946) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Let’s also recall the Red Army on Stalin’s orders stood by without intervening and allowed the Nazis to essentially raze Warsaw to the ground before the Nazi cowards fled. Now, lo and behold, the Nazis beat Russia after all — they run the Kremlin!

And then recall that Poland had a pact with Hitler before that and invaded Czechoslovakia.
And then recall that you did nothing too, while Hitler was invading Poland even though you (France/England) had some defence pact with them.

And what you (USA) were doing in 1939?

Yes, right!
1) Germany had not declared war on USA at that time.
2) It is true that USSR went to Poland after that the other Nazis had attacked it from west. And when they were there liberating the Poles they killed the intelligentsia and raped the women.
Congratulations.
3) Poland had no pact with the Hitler-regime. USSR had. USSR also sold military material to Nazi-Germany until Operation Barbarossa.

Btw. Stalin said that the motive of USSR was to rescue the Russian-speaking minority in Poland. Sounds familiar?

 

[Harry Bosch]

You are making accusations that they are being successfully targeted and taking heavy losses. That would easily concede they are still there.

Of course they are there, Elensky keep sending them there to die and stay there dead.

Meanwhile, Utin keeps sending Russians into Ukraine to die.

And according to western Propaganda they die in millions!
So why do you care then? these are stupid evil orcs, slaves, russish shwines as that good guy in SS helmet say.

I care about any young person thrown into war by old fuckers looking to settle ancient scores. I'm against war. Countries should young people to foreign lands as tourists or athletes. Not as soldiers to kill, rape and loot. Russians should be in Russia. Ukrainians should be in Ukraine.

 

[aupmanyav]

Amigo: You keep saying that Ukraine is a nato puppet. Why? Is it your view that if a country receives weapons, then it is a puppet?

Ukraine became a NATO puppet when it removed Yanukovych. The rebellion was engineered by NA.
That pushed Ukraine into a war with Russia.
Now, since it has become a NATO puppet, NATO and countries as far as Argentine and Australia are giving it military supplies.
India buys (hard cash) the equipment that it needs from many countries, including US, France, Italy and Russia. We are not puppets.

 

[aupmanyav]

Modi hugs Zelensky, arm on his shoulder. https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/Indi...handshake-amid-russia-ukraine-war/ar-AA1pixoS
I hope some good will come out of the talks.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Amigo: You keep saying that Ukraine is a nato puppet. Why? Is it your view that if a country receives weapons, then it is a puppet?

Ukraine became a NATO puppet when it removed Yanukovych. The rebellion was engineered by NA.
That pushed Ukraine into a war with Russia.
Now, since it has become a NATO puppet, NATO and countries as far as Argentine and Australia are giving it military supplies.
India buys (hard cash) the equipment that it needs from many countries, including US, France, Italy and Russia. We are not puppets.

Yanko was legally impeached by the Ukranian legislature by a vote of 328 to 122. It was legal according to their constitution. He was impeached after he refused to follow laws passed by the Ukranian legislature; resigned his position (he resigned before impeachment but tried to come back); had about 100 of his own people killed while protesting him, he stole and looted millions from his own country. Since his impeachment, two leaders have won the presidency by election. Is it really your position that a country that receives foreign aid is a puppet? Really? Over a period of time, the US send 45 billion of aid to India:

United States Agency for International Development - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And I'm sure that if India were being invaded and in dire need, that we would step up to help again if needed.

 

[steve_bank]

Amigo: You keep saying that Ukraine is a nato puppet. Why? Is it your view that if a country receives weapons, then it is a puppet?

Ukraine became a NATO puppet when it removed Yanukovych. The rebellion was engineered by NA.
That pushed Ukraine into a war with Russia.
Now, since it has become a NATO puppet, NATO and countries as far as Argentine and Australia are giving it military supplies.
India buys (hard cash) the equipment that it needs from many countries, including US, France, Italy and Russia. We are not puppets.

Yanko was legally impeached by the Ukranian legislature by a vote of 328 to 122. It was legal according to their constitution. He was impeached after he refused to follow laws passed by the Ukranian legislature; resigned his position (he resigned before impeachment but tried to come back); had about 100 of his own people killed while protesting him, he stole and looted millions from his own country. Since his impeachment, two leaders have won the presidency by election. Is it really your position that a country that receives foreign aid is a puppet? Really? Over a period of time, the US send 45 billion of aid to India:

United States Agency for International Development - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And I'm sure that if India were being invaded and in dire need, that we would step up to help again if needed.

That sums it up nicely.

 

[steve_bank]

The western systems post war divested of colonies. We gave up the Philippines. Japan and Germany are today independent.

Russia did not have colonies to divest of. And you did not divest, you created an illusion, in reality you kept puppet regimes in there which were not really allowed to decide for themselves. And african countries had to fight you and your puppet regimes to achieve independence.

East Germany was not technically a colony, it was creed and controlled by Russia. A wall amnd barrier was conduced to keep East Germans from escaping, imagine that.

Ween East Germany collapsed both East and West Germans celebrated together.

That should tell you something.

Cuba was a Russian colony for all practical purposes.

My point was the west deconl0nized, while Putin is taking land for Russian domination. The west evolves towards human rights and stability, Russia stagnates and stays the same. China evolved.

Europe used Russian natural gas and Russia was paid for it. Russia takes the money and buys things it needs. That is called international trade.

 

[aupmanyav]

Yanko was legally impeached by the Ukranian legislature by a vote of 328 to 122. Over a period of time, the US send 45 billion of aid to India:

That Yanukovych had to be removed was a necessary NATO plan. It would not have been possible without NATO machinations. And that is what started what NATO wished to achieve, a Ukraine/Russia war.

What we got was animal feed grade wheat when India was not food independent immediately after independence. US was using that money in India for whatever it wanted without any constraints. Indira Gandhi stopped that, specified where that money could be used and gave a period within which the money had to be exhausted, otherwise the rest will be written off. When it ended, I was employed at the Fulbright Foundation in Delhi.
(I am not able to get to that treaty and its details. It happened some 40 years ago)

These days we get about 2 million USD for various agreed purposes, which you know, a drop from US to the ocean. Not that we are not thankful for various things that US gave to us, e.g., the first Medical Research or technology Institutes (All India Institute of Medical Research or Indian Institute of Technology). They helped us in the green revolution.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Yanko was legally impeached by the Ukranian legislature by a vote of 328 to 122. Over a period of time, the US send 45 billion of aid to India:

That Yanukovych had to be removed was a necessary NATO plan. It would not have been possible without NATO machinations. And that is what started what NATO wished to achieve, a Ukraine/Russia war.

What we got was animal feed grade wheat when India was not food independent immediately after independence. US was using that money for its own interests trying to change Indian ways (Google search says aid was tied to forced sterlization of men ). Indira Gandhi specified where that money could be used and gave a period within which the money had to be exhausted, otherwise the rest will be written off.
(I was not able to get to that treaty and its details)

These days we get about 2 million USD for various agreed purposes, which you know, a drop from US to the ocean. Not that we are not thankful for various things that US gave to us, e.g., the first Medical Research or technology Institutes (All India Institute of Medical Research or Indian Institute of Technology). They helped us in the green revolution.

Necessary Nato Plan? Are you serious? You honestly think that nato planners thought all this in advance? Some kind of Q-nononNato or something? That is weird. One thing that I've learned over time is to always be suspicious of believing in conspiracies. Would you support an Indian leader who didn't follow laws enacted by it's congress; authorized snipers to kill Indian protestors; and looted and stole for Indian coffers?