How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Toni]

At a certain point nations are supposed to be forceful bullies, the Russia and the USA included. That or get knocked down hard in the pecking order, which can have nasty consequences. But often it is best to be a sneaky, conniving bastard as Putin demonstrates.

This is not a question of right or wrong.

Putin isn’t being sneaky. He’s doing everything out in the open. He even gave a speech laying out his claimed justifications. He’s simply aware that Biden is a senile harmless fool and he’s using this “crisis” to humiliate the West.

You can't help taking a swipe at Biden because of your disappointment that Trump lost the election, but the reality is that this invasion has nothing to do with Biden. It might well have happened even with Putin's biggest fan, Donald Trump, still in the White House. The difference is that he would be blaming Ukraine, praising Russian restraint, and parroting Russian talking points about Ukraine not really being a country. As it is, all Trump can do now for his Kremlin buddy is call Putin's behavior "genius" in his capacity as a major influencer in US conservative politics.

Are you kidding me? Trump was—still is—willing to do anything to help out his lord and master. It will be funny? nauseating? predictable? to see how the GQP simultaneously blames the invasion on Biden and congratulates Putin on his next first steps at restoring Russia to its former glory, without actually saying former.

Word is that the invasion happens tonight.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Business brisk at Kyiv gun shops as Ukrainians rush to buy arms

Threat of invasion, and draft law giving Ukrainians permission to carry firearms, leads to long queues inside weapons stores

It's going to suck to be an occupying Russian soldier if form holds.

Except the area he is taking is pretty pro-Russian. Trying to come farther could get pretty nasty, though.

 

[steve_bank]

It is hard to mass an army without being seen so technically it is 'out in the open'.

It is the blatant Trump like lies to cover it until it happens. Putin and Russian offices keep repeating there will be no invasion. Troops in the break away ares are not invading, they are peace keepers. Orwelian double speak.

Putin ripped up a treaty signed by Russia.

Now he is claiming Ukraine may be working on nuclear weapons and that will threaten Russia. As most global presidential propanda, it is not menat for us it is meant for his Russian supporters who appear to support a war..

 

[steve_bank]

At a certain point nations are supposed to be forceful bullies, the Russia and the USA included. That or get knocked down hard in the pecking order, which can have nasty consequences. But often it is best to be a sneaky, conniving bastard as Putin demonstrates.

This is not a question of right or wrong.

Since the Russian Revolution through today Russia is not being knocked down, it is tripping over its own feet.

 

[Toni]

At a certain point nations are supposed to be forceful bullies, the Russia and the USA included. That or get knocked down hard in the pecking order, which can have nasty consequences. But often it is best to be a sneaky, conniving bastard as Putin demonstrates.

This is not a question of right or wrong.

Since the Russian Revolution through today Russia is not being knocked down, it is tripping over its own feet.

More like stomping in its neighbors.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Business brisk at Kyiv gun shops as Ukrainians rush to buy arms

Threat of invasion, and draft law giving Ukrainians permission to carry firearms, leads to long queues inside weapons stores

It's going to suck to be an occupying Russian soldier if form holds.

The Eastern Ukrainian pro-Russians will suffer heavily for Pootie's land grab. Think Northern Ireland but worse.

The remnants of Ukraine will become like Switzerland. Every trustworthy Ukrainian between 16 and 60 armed, trained and Ukraine a land of bunkers and well dug in depots and and weapon factories.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

They never could figure out how to make a decent car or airplane. A physicist I knew siad they had the best physics in the world.

Their ideology stifled initiative and they never could develop manufacturing, they had no way to translate science into technology.

I Just bought a Crucial SSD. Made in Taiwan. I do not know a single brand of SSD, hard disk, laptop, CPU, GPU or anything computer related offered in the usual channels made in Russia. No well known and trusted motherboards, or much of anything. A look at Ars Technica a few weeks ago at latest Russian server equipment shows their offering are woefully behind major industry leaders.

They sell commodities, oil, gas, tungsten etc, and weapons.

 

[Trausti]

At a certain point nations are supposed to be forceful bullies, the Russia and the USA included. That or get knocked down hard in the pecking order, which can have nasty consequences. But often it is best to be a sneaky, conniving bastard as Putin demonstrates.

This is not a question of right or wrong.

Putin isn’t being sneaky. He’s doing everything out in the open. He even gave a speech laying out his claimed justifications. He’s simply aware that Biden is a senile harmless fool and he’s using this “crisis” to humiliate the West.

You can't help taking a swipe at Biden because of your disappointment that Trump lost the election, but the reality is that this invasion has nothing to do with Biden. It might well have happened even with Putin's biggest fan, Donald Trump, still in the White House. The difference is that he would be blaming Ukraine, praising Russian restraint, and parroting Russian talking points about Ukraine not really being a country. As it is, all Trump can do now for his Kremlin buddy is call Putin's behavior "genius" in his capacity as a major influencer in US conservative politics.

LOL

 

[barbos]

4,447.5 Trillion USD PP if you want it that way.

That's not me who wants it, that's all economists.

 

[Toni]

It has begun.

 

[barbos]

Ukraine is far from the only nation with regional divisions. Let's look at Poland. Which party people favor is strongly associated with which 19th-cy. empire ruled where they live.

Sure, but Ukraine is the only country where US supported side immediately banned other side language and promised to hang them later. Key word here is "immediately" after taking power as a result of violent insurrection/coup.
And you wonder why would some russians think differently about this issue.

 

[Hermit]

Stalin made a bargain with Hityler in part for getting a piece of Polan and Finland he thought was Russian. We know how that ended. up.

The USSR gained a piece of Finland in 1940 and of Poland in 1941. Both pieces remained in its possession after WWII.

 

[Axulus]

"Russia will not invade Ukraine"

Do you admit you were completely wrong, or are you still delusional? Does this make you question your lying sources, or, like a true fundamentalist, will you conveniently explain it away using your religious doctrine?

 

[barbos]

I Just bought a Crucial SSD. Made in Taiwan. I do not know a single brand of SSD, hard disk, laptop, CPU, GPU or anything computer related offered in the usual channels made in Russia.

Same is true for Italy and most of the Europe.
By the way, they do make SSDs in Russia. Not sold to the public though. only to corporate buyers. And CPUs too. Fabless of course.
And Taiwan is not doing electronics on their own. They use equipmnets manufactured all over the world using other countries patents.

 

[barbos]

Stalin made a bargain with Hityler in part for getting a piece of Polan and Finland he thought was Russian. We know how that ended. up.

The USSR gained a piece of Finland in 1940 and of Poland in 1941. Both pieces remained in its possession after WWII.

Yes, they got piece of Finland BEFORE war, not after.
And piece of Poland they got BEFORE the war, was not really a piece of Poland but a piece of Russia they lost or rather left in WW1.

So you see, Stalin did not grab any land when he had the opportunity (after the war)
And what you I bet did not know is that Poland and few other countries (other than germany) were grabbing land before WW2 as well

The only land which USSR "grabbed" was Prussia and these islands from Japan.
but these were fair and agreed upon with US/GB/France "grabs"

You're welcome.

 

[Toni]

Some of us had family members living in Poland when Russia invaded.

 

[barbos]

Some of us had family members living in Poland when Russia invaded.

Russia did not invade Poland, Russia took back its own land they lost in WW1.

 

[Derec]

The Biden administration is being way too timid about Russia. Basically his response is [checks notes] to go after pipeline operators.
Biden moves ahead with sanctions on company behind Nord Stream pipeline
That's basically the same the administration is treating Canada.
With a pen stroke, President Joe Biden cancels Keystone XL pipeline project

 

[Copernicus]

So you see, Stalin did not grab any land when had the opportunity (after the war)
And what you I bet did not know is that Poland and few other countries (other than germany) were grabbing land before WW2 as well
You're welcome.

My Estonian teacher, who had escaped the Soviet occupation, explained why she refused to speak Russian with me. She had seen Soviet troops gun down unarmed Estonian captives with her own eyes. They had their hands in the air when they were shot. It is no surprise that Estonia was the first "Soviet Socialist Republic" to declare its independence from the Soviet Union--even before the Ukrainians did.

 

[Trausti]

And piece of Poland they got BEFORE the war,

I had a Russian girlfriend in the 90s. She was taught that the Second World War began on June 22, 1941. That was interesting.