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How should west respond to Russian invasion of Ukraine?

 
 
 
Loren Pechtel said:
bilby said:
Loren Pechtel said:
barbos said:
bilby said:
...and the long lines at gas stations and restrictions on how much people are allowed to buy were put in place for totally different reasons.
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I don't see any lines here. In Crimea maybe.
Again, during WW2 US was dropping thousand of tons on German infrastructure with rather little effect.
50kg of explosives cannot put oil refinery out of commission for any meaningful amount of time.
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The boom alone, no. The boom starting a fire, it could.
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You are forgetting the Death Star effect. WWII era refineries were fairly simple, and fairly inefficient, but had few critical and hard to replace components. WWII era weapons were incredibly inaccurate, and quantity doesn't effectively replace quality when hitting the right city is an achievement, and hitting the refinery itself a matter of dumb luck.

Modern refineries contain more complex components, some of which are very hard to replace quickly*; These are custom built to order with lead-times of years, and are imported from a handful of specialist manufacturers - unless, of course, their import is blocked by sanctions.

And hitting those components specifically is not impossible - modern drones can bullseye womp rats, and they're no bigger than two metres.

It's not necessary to take 100% of Russian refinery capacity offline for years. Ukraine just needs to take enough of it offline to make consumption (even after rationing) outstrip supply, for long enough to plan, prepare, and launch their next strike against each particular target. Which is what they've been doing.

A refinery is a big target, that needs a huge amount of munitions to completely destroy. But they have small but targettable weaknesses, which if hit can render the entire installation impotent.

And no Bothans had to die to bring Ukraine this information.
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The deep strike drones are at best guided by AI. They won't have the precision of a human controller.
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As they say in my neighborhood, Close enough for government work.
 
AI
Yes, Tomahawk cruise missiles rely on an Inertial Navigation System (INS) as their foundational baseline.Because inertial systems drift over time, the missile continuously corrects its course by combining it with other technologies, such as GPS, TERCOM (Terrain Contour Matching), and DSMAC (Digital Scene-Matching Area Correlation).
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The Great Azov Turkey Shoot
Targeting Russian ships in the Sea of Azov has come on like gangbusters. A one week operation thus far has yielded strikes on 90 Russian oil tankers. Why? They've absolutely no air defense. Russian milbloggers are screaming about the incompetence of it all. Ukrainian drones are hitting all manner of shipping, not just fuel but cargo and ferry traffic too.
 
Tigers! said:
ZiprHead said:
Suspended.
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It took an awful long time. I admire the mods long suffering patience.
Do do realise the throughput/ouput of this thread will fall considerably?
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I dunno.
I think he is an excellent example of a closed minded supporter of a bad political leader. Change a few names and dates and he could be many of my Trumpistas neighbors.
Tom
 
Hearing that India has appealed to Ukraine to let a tanker full of Indian gasoline into Russia to prevent a famine.

That doesn't sound good for Russia at all. Sounds like Russia is at a precipice.
 
"How should west respond to Russian invasion of Ukraine?"

How should the world respond to the American invasion of Iran, and collection of toll from shippers? Any different from the Iranian toll?
 
aupmanyav said:
"How should west respond to Russian invasion of Ukraine?"

How should the world respond to the American invasion of Iran, and collection of toll from shippers? Any different from the Iranian toll?
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Wrong thread.

America bashing gets you and India no where.
 
aupmanyav said:
"How should west respond to Russian invasion of Ukraine?"

How should the world respond to the American invasion of Iran, and collection of toll from shippers? Any different from the Iranian toll?
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The Iranian toll has some justification due to the Strait being along Iran's coast and Iran having a legitimate security and environmental concern about ship traffic there. The American toll has no justification other than Might Makes Right.

Russia used the same attempt at justification to seize territory in Ukraine. It has been having trouble sustaining the 'Might' and hardly anyone bought into the 'Right'.
 
ZiprHead said:
Hearing that India has appealed to Ukraine to let a tanker full of Indian gasoline into Russia to prevent a famine.

That doesn't sound good for Russia at all. Sounds like Russia is at a precipice.
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Putin thought nothing of stopping Ukrainian wheat supple to areas on the markings of food. Africa.

India thinks it is getting somewhere aligning economically with Russia and opposing the USA. Lok at what Russia does to 'allies'.

Originally coined by Goldman Sachs in 2001 as BRIC, Brazil, Russia, and India (along with China) form the core foundation of the intergovernmental organization. Economically, the bloc has expanded significantly—adding South Africa and others—and has collectively surpassed the G7 in global GDP adjusted for purchasing power parity.
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Lennon has been occupied by Hamas and others funded by Iran for a long time. Iran really is a bad actor.

It's goal is not just destroying Israel, it is also toppling the Arab Muslim monarchies which it says is not authentic Islam. They want the region to be Iran's version of Islam.

The devastating war in Yemen is Iran funded proxies versus Saudi Arabia

IMO the region is a hopeless shithole.
 
aupmanyav said:
steve_bank said:
America bashing gets you and India no where.
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It is fun.
I read that Trump has made a U-turn on his toll.
One cannot believe even a word of what Trump says.
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aupmanyav said:
steve_bank said:
America bashing gets you and India no where.
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It is fun.
I read that Trump has made a U-turn on his toll.
One cannot believe even a word of what Trump says.
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Trump is an unstable, incompetent man. Irrational and the most corrupt president in our history.

We all know it. Republicans in congers know it, but are afraid of Trump.

Bringing up Trump does not get around what Russia is doing and has done before Ukraine.

So far our legal system and constitution is keeping Trump from extremes and asssunming authoritarian control of government.

The major failure of the checks and balances is republications in congress failing to reign in Trump. He started a war without congressional approval and got away with it.
 
steve_bank said:
"India thinks it is getting somewhere aligning economically with Russia and opposing the USA. Lok at what Russia does to 'allies'.
[Originally coined by Goldman Sachs in 2001 as BRIC, Brazil, Russia, and India (along with China) form the core foundation of the intergovernmental organization. Economically, the bloc has expanded significantly—adding South Africa and others—and has collectively surpassed the G7 in global GDP adjusted for purchasing power parity.]"

Aup.: We are non-aligned, equally as close or as far from US, Russia or China. Non-alignment has served us well and we are not going to turn away from it. If we are thinking of buying T-52 from Russia, we have already bought Rafales from France.
What is wrong with BRICS? Just one of many groupings. We may not be a member of G-7, but we are generally invited and attend. Modi will be in US in December 2026 for G-20 meeting in Florida. He will, Inshallah, meet Trump.
steve_bank said:
Bringing up Trump does not get around what Russia is doing and has done before Ukraine.
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Russia has its own reasons for attacking Ukraine. Trump had no reason to intervene in Israel/Iran war except greed to own Iran's gas and oil. Israel was capable to handling Iran on its own.
 
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