I think we can make the positive claim that nothing like 'gods' exist

[Elixir]

I see evolution creating things beyond human understanding. Even "artificial" evolution.
I don't see gods creating anything other than possibly raw energy before it began to condense into matter.
Show me the logical need for a god that cannot also be filled by other prior assumptions.

Read this very carefully and consider the implications.
We created the god that created us to explain our existence. Circular reasoning? A conundrum.

A semantic trap for mental minnows.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Read this very carefully and consider the implications.
We created the god that created us to explain our existence. Circular reasoning? A conundrum.

Nah. Just wrong.
We created the gods that had nothing at all to do with our existence.

 

[Elixir]

Read this very carefully and consider the implications.
We created the god that created us to explain our existence. Circular reasoning? A conundrum.

Nah. Just wrong.
We created the gods that had nothing at all to do with our existence.

WAIT! - You're BOTH right!

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

I see evolution creating things beyond human understanding. Even "artificial" evolution.
I don't see gods creating anything other than possibly raw energy before it began to condense into matter.
Show me the logical need for a god that cannot also be filled by other prior assumptions.

Read this very carefully and consider the implications.
We created the god that created us to explain our existence. Circular reasoning? A conundrum.

A semantic trap for mental minnows.

It is not semantics in any way and it saddens me you cannot address the concepts involved.

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

Read this very carefully and consider the implications.
We created the god that created us to explain our existence. Circular reasoning? A conundrum.

Nah. Just wrong.
We created the gods that had nothing at all to do with our existence.

You are in no way addressing the concept of the conundrum of who created our creator?

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

Read this very carefully and consider the implications.
We created the god that created us to explain our existence. Circular reasoning? A conundrum.

Nah. Just wrong.
We created the gods that had nothing at all to do with our existence.

WAIT! - You're BOTH right!

Exactly we are both right depending on our point of view.. everything needs to be understood from many different points of view
A chair looks like an H
a chair looks like an h
A chair looks like a d
Depends on your point of view front side top?
Do you look at things from the other persons point of view?

 

[Elixir]

It is not semantics in any way and it saddens me you cannot address the concepts involved.

Read this carefully:
We created the many gods that have fulfilled the many needs of an evolving intelligent species.
What was once an asset to increasing our species' reproductive success has now become the greatest threat to the survival of the human species. It is the same trait that once gave tribes a competitive edge, that today tends people to rally around populists and priests.

There, I addressed your complaint.
Still don't see any gods doing anything.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Read this very carefully and consider the implications.
We created the god that created us to explain our existence. Circular reasoning? A conundrum.

Nah. Just wrong.
We created the gods that had nothing at all to do with our existence.

You are in no way addressing the concept of the conundrum of who created our creator?

I see no reason to think that gods created us. Thus, without a shitload of support, there's no conundrum TO address. You're just wrongconundrum.
Prove me wrong? Provide actual evidence, available for objective evaluation, not a sermon?

 

[steve_bank]

Wins thread? You can’t even present any evidence, let alone win a discussion on consciousness. You are obviously bereft of any knowledge of the subject. Now if you want to present any questions on the subject I would be happy to give you my understanding but… I really do not see the point.. you just want to start an argument so you can “win” it. Are you really that insecure?

You know, we just had another one in here. Go ahead, look up @MrIntelligentDesign's posts.

Yours bear a strong similarity.

Now, I've personally created a number of universes: deterministic, ordered processes which interact in systematic ways upon a field or fields.

I know for a fact that it's entirely possible for a universe to be created by a rank idiot.

I know for a fact that it wouldn't take consciousness to make that happen.

Your bullshit still doesn't get you any closer to "there are more than zero gods" any more than Adam's does to "there are exactly zero gods".

Until you produce a god for us to look at, "there are zero or more gods". Until you show us a Theory of Everything that shows us an infinite normal series that resembles our universe and then demonstrate predictive power from said infinite normal series, "there are zero or more gods".

First of all learn to understand a simple concept.
I think therefore I am (1) not zero.. how ever
My realization that I exist.. causes a BIG BANG of unanswerable questions (0) answers.
Who what where why how do I know I exist?
1 000111000 vibrating conscious energy we use to create and communicate every thought. Read an encyclopedia on what the binary system is. Oh and what angstroms decibels and firing synapses are. Then reconsider what 100011100 is creating and communicating. Hint: what is consciousness? As opposed to quantum physics

I fart and smell it, therefore I am.

Scatter brained is an old term for someone who has a constant stream of unconnected thoughts never actually focusing on a constent theme. A modern euphemism is 'stream of concessions'. Thought to mouth without any filtering or care given to logic and rationality.

Back in the day one took LSD or smokd pot, waited for it to come, and then start making an endkess stream of profound revelations. It was called 'tripping'. Camdels amd incense for the mystical effect.

Just admit you are not intelligent enough to discuss thieve concepts. So you resort to insults to hide your ignorance of those concepts.

When you fly a jet or drive a car it is us engineers and scientists who make it happen for those ignorant of scince and engineering.

When you are on takeoff roll on a jet do yu think it flies because of the uderlying scirnce or your mental perception that it will fly? When you are flying is it just a perception of flying or is there a science based causality that keeps the jet up?

One of Hen lien's stores was Waldo And Company. In the future cars and planes are powered by a broadcast energy source. Cars stop running and planes fall out of the sky. In the story the problem was people stopped believing in the science. Waldow a genious who ;ives in his space station is engaged to figure it out. He invents some mystical symbols and puts them on cars. People believe in the mystical and cars start running.

Yio are not really putting forth anything new.

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

It is not semantics in any way and it saddens me you cannot address the concepts involved.

Read this carefully:
We created the many gods that have fulfilled the many needs of an evolving intelligent species.
What was once an asset to increasing our species' reproductive success has now become the greatest threat to the survival of the human species. It is the same trait that once gave tribes a competitive edge, that today tends people to rally around populists and priests.

There, I addressed your complaint.
Still don't see any gods doing anything.

The word god is defined as creator of the universe.. not Jehovah or pan or Zeus ..
Whatever created us…
But we created the god that created us to explain our existence… god did it… READ SLOWLY understand the concept

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

Read this very carefully and consider the implications.
We created the god that created us to explain our existence. Circular reasoning? A conundrum.

Nah. Just wrong.
We created the gods that had nothing at all to do with our existence.

You are in no way addressing the concept of the conundrum of who created our creator?

I see no reason to think that gods created us. Thus, without a shitload of support, there's no conundrum TO address. You're just wrongconundrum.
Prove me wrong? Provide actual evidence, available for objective evaluation, not a sermon?

Evidence? I think therefore I am. Personal observation.
I exist something created me
God is defined as creator of the universe…

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

Wins thread? You can’t even present any evidence, let alone win a discussion on consciousness. You are obviously bereft of any knowledge of the subject. Now if you want to present any questions on the subject I would be happy to give you my understanding but… I really do not see the point.. you just want to start an argument so you can “win” it. Are you really that insecure?

You know, we just had another one in here. Go ahead, look up @MrIntelligentDesign's posts.

Yours bear a strong similarity.

Now, I've personally created a number of universes: deterministic, ordered processes which interact in systematic ways upon a field or fields.

I know for a fact that it's entirely possible for a universe to be created by a rank idiot.

I know for a fact that it wouldn't take consciousness to make that happen.

Your bullshit still doesn't get you any closer to "there are more than zero gods" any more than Adam's does to "there are exactly zero gods".

Until you produce a god for us to look at, "there are zero or more gods". Until you show us a Theory of Everything that shows us an infinite normal series that resembles our universe and then demonstrate predictive power from said infinite normal series, "there are zero or more gods".

First of all learn to understand a simple concept.
I think therefore I am (1) not zero.. how ever
My realization that I exist.. causes a BIG BANG of unanswerable questions (0) answers.
Who what where why how do I know I exist?
1 000111000 vibrating conscious energy we use to create and communicate every thought. Read an encyclopedia on what the binary system is. Oh and what angstroms decibels and firing synapses are. Then reconsider what 100011100 is creating and communicating. Hint: what is consciousness? As opposed to quantum physics

I fart and smell it, therefore I am.

Scatter brained is an old term for someone who has a constant stream of unconnected thoughts never actually focusing on a constent theme. A modern euphemism is 'stream of concessions'. Thought to mouth without any filtering or care given to logic and rationality.

Back in the day one took LSD or smokd pot, waited for it to come, and then start making an endkess stream of profound revelations. It was called 'tripping'. Camdels amd incense for the mystical effect.

Just admit you are not intelligent enough to discuss thieve concepts. So you resort to insults to hide your ignorance of those concepts.

When you fly a jet or drive a car it is us engineers and scientists who make it happen for those ignorant of scince and engineering.

When you are on takeoff roll on a jet do yu think it flies because of the uderlying scirnce or your mental perception that it will fly? When you are flying is it just a perception of flying or is there a science based causality that keeps the jet up?

One of Hen lien's stores was Waldo And Company. In the future cars and planes are powered by a broadcast energy source. Cars stop running and planes fall out of the sky. In the story the problem was people stopped believing in the science. Waldow a genious who ;ives in his space station is engaged to figure it out. He invents some mystical symbols and puts them on cars. People believe in the mystical and cars start running.

Yio are not really putting forth anything new.

You are limited to the physical perception of reality . What about the point of subatomic point of view. Consciousness. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. We are constantly changing form. We are just a physical perception of subatomic electromagnetic energy waves.. our thoughts create and communicate using vibrating energy
Firing synapses
Angstroms
Decibels.
That’s all just vibrating energy we perceive as a physical reality.
We are a singularity
A collective consciousness..
Looking at our existence from many different points of view

 

[steve_bank]

Yes, we are limited in or ability to perception reality, stating the obvious. Cosmology is limited by our ability to detect photons. Our instruments have fundamental linits. That is something we all know.

Whether e know all there is to know is impossible to answer, we have no reference point to make the deduction. That is why scince can not really say whether a god can or can not exist. All we can do is apply science to relgious claims like Young Earth Creationism.

So, ypu csn freely speculate on the nature of reality and say scince has it all wrong. Howerve those like me will ask for expeimntal proof and dat. Otherose yiu are just one of many speculators. The onus is on you to experimentaly prove any sceince is wrong and you are right. Philsopical and relgious arguments are not sufficient.

Up through the 19th century hoes were drilled in skulls to let out the bad disease causing spirits, we know now the causes of disease and mental illness.

 

[bilby]

Wins thread? You can’t even present any evidence, let alone win a discussion on consciousness. You are obviously bereft of any knowledge of the subject. Now if you want to present any questions on the subject I would be happy to give you my understanding but… I really do not see the point.. you just want to start an argument so you can “win” it. Are you really that insecure?

Mate, you have yet to persuade anyone that you are even vaguely competent to answer any questions we might have.

Why would I ask you anything when you clearly know three eighths of bugger all about the things you say?

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

Yes, we are limited in or ability to perception reality, stating the obvious. Cosmology is limited by our ability to detect photons. Our instruments have fundamental linits. That is something we all know.

Whether e know all there is to know is impossible to answer, we have no reference point to make the deduction. That is why scince can not really say whether a god can or can not exist. All we can do is apply science to relgious claims like Young Earth Creationism.

So, ypu csn freely speculate on the nature of reality and say scince has it all wrong. Howerve those like me will ask for expeimntal proof and dat. Otherose yiu are just one of many speculators. The onus is on you to experimentaly prove any sceince is wrong and you are right. Philsopical and relgious arguments are not sufficient.

Up through the 19th century hoes were drilled in skulls to let out the bad disease causing spirits, we know now the causes of disease and mental illness.

Experimentally prove any science is wrong?
No problem
Look at any object perceived as “physical”
Atoms? Look closer…
Protons electrons neutrons? Look closer..
Leptons muons quarks? Look closer
Subatomic particles? Look closer…
Everything is actually subatomic electromagnetic energy forces perceived as and labeled as particles… a perception of vibrating energy..
Sight angstroms vibrating energy
Sounds decibels vibrating energy
Consciousness firing synapses vibrating energy.
There is no physical t.
E=mc2 mass is just a perception of energy divided by velocity. m=E/c2
Neither of which is physical or has mass.
In the beginning god created the universe (1)
But it was void And without form so god created light by vibrating that energy in the nothingness of the universe (0). 10011100011100
Colours angstroms vibrating w
Sounds decibels vibrating energy
Consciousness thoughts firing synapsesall a perception of vibrating energy.
You can actually look up the rate of vibrating energy that cause blu green yellow
Energy that is sounds notes a a# bc c#
Energy that is consciousness thoughts firing synapses
All just vibrating energy we create our perception of a physical universe with.
It’s not physical at all.

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

Wins thread? You can’t even present any evidence, let alone win a discussion on consciousness. You are obviously bereft of any knowledge of the subject. Now if you want to present any questions on the subject I would be happy to give you my understanding but… I really do not see the point.. you just want to start an argument so you can “win” it. Are you really that insecure?

Mate, you have yet to persuade anyone that you are even vaguely competent to answer any questions we might have.

Why would I ask you anything when you clearly know three eighths of bugger all about the things you say?

And all you EVER do is make unsupported assertions and insults as if that proves the.
I provide EVIDENCE, LOGIC and REASON to support EVERYTHING I POST.. you got NOTHING…

 

[bilby]

Wins thread? You can’t even present any evidence, let alone win a discussion on consciousness. You are obviously bereft of any knowledge of the subject. Now if you want to present any questions on the subject I would be happy to give you my understanding but… I really do not see the point.. you just want to start an argument so you can “win” it. Are you really that insecure?

Mate, you have yet to persuade anyone that you are even vaguely competent to answer any questions we might have.

Why would I ask you anything when you clearly know three eighths of bugger all about the things you say?

And all you EVER do is make unsupported assertions and insults as if that proves the.
I provide EVIDENCE, LOGIC and REASON to support EVERYTHING I POST.. you got NOTHING…

You still haven't provided any evidence, logic or reason to support your claim that consciousness is a subatomic phenomenon.

As we have solid evidence that the minimum scale for consciousness is in the order of a billion billion billion times larger, that's quite a leap of faith you're making.

Your arguments are so weak that they deserve nothing but insults.

 

[AGodForTheAtheist]

I am making no leap of faith.. I am using evidence logic and reason to support my hypothesis.
Evidence as Rene Descartes pointed out is I think therefore I am. If I exist something created me. We have defined the word god as creator of the universe.
All physical objects are actually comprised of atoms which are comprised of leptons quarks bosons which are actually a perception of subatomic electromagnetic energy fields .
There is nothing physical. There is only our consciousness of firing synapses vibrating energy decibels sound vibrating energy
Sights angstroms vibrating energy. We perceive as a physical expression of vibrating energy…
E=mc2 solve for m = E/c2 neither of which is a physical property.
We are just a singularity consciousness (1) in a universe of nothingness (0) 10011000 vibrating and creating this perception of a physical reality.
Since the past does not exist anymore and the future does not exist yet, only now ever exists. An ever expanding ever changing now after now… energy cannot be created or destroyed. The purpose of life is to create a more enjoyable existence because life as a singularity is a very boring lonely existence for eternity.

 

[bilby]

If I exist something created me

This is a claim I believe to be false.

Do you have any evidence, logic, or reason to support this claim?

It contradicts the first law of thermodynamics, so you're going to need some very impressive and compelling reasoning before I can accept this.

Yet you seem unaware that it even requires support; You treat it as axiomatic.

It's not.

 

[bilby]

We have defined the word god as creator of the universe

Who's "we"? You got a mouse in your pocket?