If you are Christian can you...

[steve_bank]

Based on scripture can you be a Christian and


1, Get a divorce if you just get tired of each other?
1. Can you commit adultery you get the hots for someone else?
3. If you are unmarried can you fornicate, IOW have sex outside of marriage?

Of course you can. Indeed, the Bible suggests that most people are quite likely to do these things. It doesn't really approve, though.

If you willingly do these things as a matter of course you can't be a Christian by scripture. Of coursen amny people do what they like, wear a c4rs, pray to Jesus, and call themselves a Christian.

Jesus in the gospels equated divorce/fornication with murder.

And then back to what is a Chastain? The answer being anything somebody wants it to be.

 

[steve_bank]

In Leviticus there is a cleaning-purification ritual for non sex emissions. They were concussed with ritual cleanliness.

 

[Rhea]

“Concussed with ritual cleanliness”
That is perfect.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

What is it that you feel the purpose of the Bible is then? If it's not a source to tell you the word of God and provide you with a foundation of a moral structure, how would it be relevant to you?

Nah, it's all of those things you say... when convenient.

Ya, that's my fucking point. You're not being somehow deep and profound here. You're not taking Christian philosophy to the next level and shining light on divine mysteries with stuff like this. You are literally being as shallow and banal as possible and trying to pass off an absolute lack of thought as wisdom.

It would be silly if you didn't sound as if you were so serious about it and come across as if you actually believe you're saying something.

 

[Politesse]

Based on scripture can you be a Christian and


1, Get a divorce if you just get tired of each other?
1. Can you commit adultery you get the hots for someone else?
3. If you are unmarried can you fornicate, IOW have sex outside of marriage?

Of course you can. Indeed, the Bible suggests that most people are quite likely to do these things. It doesn't really approve, though.

If you willingly do these things as a matter of course you can't be a Christian by scripture. Of coursen amny people do what they like, wear a c4rs, pray to Jesus, and call themselves a Christian.

Jesus in the gospels equated divorce/fornication with murder.

And then back to what is a Chastain? The answer being anything somebody wants it to be.

I see you are cheerfully adding verses to "the Bible" that no one else can see.

Are you sure you aren't a Christian?

- - - Updated - - -

What is it that you feel the purpose of the Bible is then? If it's not a source to tell you the word of God and provide you with a foundation of a moral structure, how would it be relevant to you?

Nah, it's all of those things you say... when convenient.

Ya, that's my fucking point. You're not being somehow deep and profound here. You're not taking Christian philosophy to the next level and shining light on divine mysteries with stuff like this. You are literally being as shallow and banal as possible and trying to pass off an absolute lack of thought as wisdom.

It would be silly if you didn't sound as if you were so serious about it and come across as if you actually believe you're saying something.

It was just a joke, holy shit. Do you seriously not perceive sarcasm?

 

[steve_bank]

I'll look for it. There is a passage where JC lists a few offenses lumped with murder.
JC reinforced the prohibition against divorce and declared one who divorces and remarries is guilty of fornication, a serious offense in the times. What god has put togetjher let no man put asunder/

There are some Christian churches that allow divorce. In the RCC the pope can and occasionaly grnts a divorce in the form of annulment saying it never happened to begin with.

Now if you are Henry 8th with all that power you can create your own version of Christianity and discard wives like old shoes.

Ta gotta love Christianity. Take a solemn vow before god until death do we part. Make a lot of money and discard your wife for a young trophy wife....

I believe it was the police paragon of Christian values who dumped his wife, remarries, and was accept into the RCC.

I have yet to meet a Christian who follows in nay meaningful way the dictates of Jesus in the gospels.

A woman in the facility here goes to several bible meetings in the building, church on Sunday, carries a bible, talks about it, and shacks up with a guy here. None of my business really, but biblical fornication. Christians routinely slander, especially aggressive Evangelicals. There is no such thing today as a biblical Christians. Jews in the day were more like Muslims who practice sharia law extremes.


I am sure god will sort it out on judgment day.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/15-19.htm

16“Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17“Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

 

[Politesse]

I'll look for it. There is a passage where JC lists a few offenses lumped with murder.
JC reinforced the prohibition against divorce and declared one who divorces and remarries is guilty of fornication, a serious offense in the times. What god has put togetjher let no man put asunder/

There are some Christian churches that allow divorce. In the RCC the pope can and occasionaly grnts a divorce in the form of annulment saying it never happened to begin with.

Now if you are Henry 8th with all that power you can create your own version of Christianity and discard wives like old shoes.

Ta gotta love Christianity. Take a solemn vow before god until death do we part. Make a lot of money and discard your wife for a young trophy wife....

I believe it was the police paragon of Christian values who dumped his wife, remarries, and was accept into the RCC.

I am sure god will sort it out on judgment day.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/15-19.htm

16“Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17“Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

Yes, you're sure it's there.

You know, somewhere.

In fact, there are no verses that say who "can" or "cannot" be a Christian.

 

[bilby]

Rorschach blots are magically designed to provide an image tailored to each viewer's needs.

Nah, they're all just a bunch of pictures of my parents fighting.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It was just a joke, holy shit. Do you seriously not perceive sarcasm?

Not always. Text posts lack context and can easily be misinterpreted. I've made a large number of jokes which people have responded to seriously and had the same reaction as you about how weird the person responding must be to have not gotten that it's humour. So, my apologies for misinterpreting what you were saying.

- - - Updated - - -

Rorschach blots are magically designed to provide an image tailored to each viewer's needs.

Nah, they're all just a bunch of pictures of my parents fighting.

You're lucky. I once had this asshole therapist who kept showing me pictures of my third grade teacher's penis. To this day, I cannot figure out why he thought looking at those would somehow help me.

 

[steve_bank]

I'll look for it. There is a passage where JC lists a few offenses lumped with murder.
JC reinforced the prohibition against divorce and declared one who divorces and remarries is guilty of fornication, a serious offense in the times. What god has put togetjher let no man put asunder/

There are some Christian churches that allow divorce. In the RCC the pope can and occasionaly grnts a divorce in the form of annulment saying it never happened to begin with.

Now if you are Henry 8th with all that power you can create your own version of Christianity and discard wives like old shoes.

Ta gotta love Christianity. Take a solemn vow before god until death do we part. Make a lot of money and discard your wife for a young trophy wife....

I believe it was the police paragon of Christian values who dumped his wife, remarries, and was accept into the RCC.

I am sure god will sort it out on judgment day.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/15-19.htm

16“Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17“Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”

Yes, you're sure it's there.

You know, somewhere.

In fact, there are no verses that say who "can" or "cannot" be a Christian.

Like I said if you are a believer and you lie. slander, malign, hate, fornicate. divorce and so on god will sort it out on judgment day. If I were a believer I'd want to know exactly what the rules are....

No matter how you try to spin it as a modern Christian Jesus was a Jew preaching to Jews and reibnforcing Mosaic law and traditions. Do you keep kosher? No work on the holy day? Fornication?

Christians today are what JC was against. Corrupt religion.

https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-17.htm

"Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.

 

[Lion IRC]

Ta gotta love Christianity. Take a solemn vow before god until death do we part. Make a lot of money and discard your wife for a young trophy wife....

What's the logical/causal connection between Christianity and your trophy wife example?

This entire thread is based on your amphibology fallacy.
You ambiguously equate the verb to be capable with to be allowed.
Then you run this lame...Chrirstianity lets you do whatever you want canard.

 

[bilby]

Ta gotta love Christianity. Take a solemn vow before god until death do we part. Make a lot of money and discard your wife for a young trophy wife....

What's the logical/causal connection between Christianity and your trophy wife example?

This entire thread is based on your amphibology fallacy.
You ambiguously equate the verb to be capable with to be allowed.
Then you run this lame...Chrirstianity lets you do whatever you want canard.

LOL - Christianity does let you do whatever you want. All its penalties and rewards are fictional.

 

[southernhybrid]

Ta gotta love Christianity. Take a solemn vow before god until death do we part. Make a lot of money and discard your wife for a young trophy wife....

What's the logical/causal connection between Christianity and your trophy wife example?

This entire thread is based on your amphibology fallacy.
You ambiguously equate the verb to be capable with to be allowed.
Then you run this lame...Chrirstianity lets you do whatever you want canard.

I think his point is that all Christians have to do is ask forgiveness and accept Christ as their personal savior and their sins will be washed away. I was raised by fundamentalist converts, so I know this tale quite well. Of course, it's different among progressive Christians, as they don't literally accept traditional Biblical nonsense.

So, a person can be the most disgusting horrible person in the world. The person can steal, murder, commit adultery etc., but if he has a death bed or late in life conversion and asks forgiveness, up he goes to heaven. Meanwhile, another person might be a very moral person who helps other people out, never abandons his family, works hard all of his life etc. but he never found truth in the Christian religion. Sorry guy. You're going strait to hell to be tormented forever. That is exactly what I was taught as a child. It bothered me very much, but then while attending a fundamentalist Christian college, my eyes suddenly became open by these totally nutty people and their ideas. I realized that I had been duped for sure. I felt a tremendous relief to have gotten rid of the burden of those false and harmful beliefs. That was the beginning of my journey towards atheism.

I actually used to ask my own father about why god didn't let good people in heaven if they weren't Christians. I was about 7 or 8 at the time. He never had an answer for me, but I kept trying to believe for many years. I was Baptized in the conservative Baptist church, thinking perhaps that would enlighten me. I was 8 at the time, so hopefully nobody would blame a child for believing nonsense. Oddly enough, I stopped believing in Santa at the age of 5, and my mother was proud of me, but she never came to terms with the fact that God is like Santa for adults. Maybe she had a reason for clinging to her beliefs.


I don't dislike Christians. Some of them are fantastic people who do charitable things for their communities. I don't condemn their beliefs unless they condemn mine. I realize that religion has a purpose for many people and I've never blamed my parents for my childhood indoctrination. I saw them as victims of indoctrination, and perhaps their beliefs gave them purpose and community. But, having conservative religious beliefs can also do great harm, if allowed to influence government or schools. It can make people feel arrogant, or better than others. Like everything in life, there is both good and bad in religion, but it's should never be used as an excuse to hurt others. Thinking that your god will forgive you for your sins is a potentially harmful belief.

 

[steve_bank]

My points are

1. Jesus of the gospels was a Jew perching to Jews. He reinforces Mosaic Law which would include Leviticus.
2. If you claim to be a biblical Christian as Evangelicals pointedly claim, from the gospels live like a Jew. Evangelicals while they may align with Mormons and Christians on issues like abortion, Evangelicals do not always accept Mormons and Catholics as biblically authentic Christians. Yet they ignore specific parts' of the gospels.
3. Modern Christianity has nothing to do with the Gospels and Old Testament.

Clearly from Jesus to follow him is to conform to Moses. One of the modern Christian retorts is Paul cjged the requirents. But who was Paul?

The other retort is to claim that Jesus was the fulfillment of the Old Covenant, Moses, and a New Covenant was formed. The New Testament which got rid of all the old Mosaic restrictions. 'If so to state the obvious what about the Mosaic treatment of gays?

So, in conclusion ladies and gentlemen today as a Christian you can do what you like and call yourself Christian. If god exists he will sort it out in the end.

Thanks for communing and if you can cash donations are accepted in the jar at the back of the room.

 

[Lion IRC]

That is a valiant attempt to salvage steve_banks' Op but if you've been following the thread you'll see that's NOT his view.

He won't clarify his point by asking...

"Can you be a Christian and defiantly disobey God (sin) as often as you like with some sort of 'hall pass' mentality."

The answer to which is an emphatic - no.

 

[Copernicus]

...

I don't dislike Christians. Some of them are fantastic people who do charitable things for their communities. I don't condemn their beliefs unless they condemn mine. I realize that religion has a purpose for many people and I've never blamed my parents for my childhood indoctrination. I saw them as victims of indoctrination, and perhaps their beliefs gave them purpose and community. But, having conservative religious beliefs can also do great harm, if allowed to influence government or schools. It can make people feel arrogant, or better than others. Like everything in life, there is both good and bad in religion, but it's should never be used as an excuse to hurt others. Thinking that your god will forgive you for your sins is a potentially harmful belief.

I'm not so sure that the doctrine of forgiveness and redemption is a bad thing per se, although it can certainly undermine the will to reform one's behavior. It is no accident that our jails are full of very repentant Christians. However, redemption can also serve to rehabilitate those who are willing and able to genuinely reform. It works with some, but not with others.

Ideally, everyone who screws up should get a chance to follow in the footsteps of Jean Valjean in Hugo's Les Miserables. It was an act of kindness and forgiveness that reformed and redeemed him. That story was also religiously-inspired fiction, of course, but it still resonates powerfully with people. The problem with the Catholic version of redemption is that it has become so ritualized that it has lost most of its power to genuinely influence behavior. God always ends up doing exactly what his worshipers want him to do. A divine pushover.

 

[Rhea]

That is a valiant attempt to salvage steve_banks' Op but if you've been following the thread you'll see that's NOT his view.

He won't clarify his point by asking...

"Can you be a Christian and defiantly disobey God (sin) as often as you like with some sort of 'hall pass' mentality."

The answer to which is an emphatic - no.

So, hang on, you're saying this passage does NOT say, "now that you're done sinning and ready to turn away everythign you did back then is forgiven" ????

I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.[/B] 20For when you were slaves to sin, you were free of obligation to righteousness. 21What fruit did you reap at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The outcome of those things is death.…

Looks to me like it EXPLICITLY SAYS exactly what Steve alleges, namely, "Sin now, repent later; Win. (Count on it.)"

 

[atrib]

That is a valiant attempt to salvage steve_banks' Op but if you've been following the thread you'll see that's NOT his view.

He won't clarify his point by asking...

"Can you be a Christian and defiantly disobey God (sin) as often as you like with some sort of 'hall pass' mentality."

The answer to which is an emphatic - no.

God's instructions are not clear. The Bible is poorly written and open to interpretation, it often contradicts itself, and is often contradicted by what we observe in the natural world. There is no evidence to support the claim that the Bible is divinely inspired, much less the actual words of God. It is overwhelmingly more likely that the Bible is the product of human imagination, and thus prone to human error.

If you claim divine revelation, God speaking to you, you have no way to verify that the voice in your head is actually your god speaking to you; it is much more likely that you suffer from a mental illness, or a chemical imbalance in your brain. Even if we accept that you are sincere, and are not lying about god giving you instructions simply to accomplish something you want.

Finally, there is no time limit on being saved. You could spend your life doing things in direct contradiction to the teachings of the Bible (where they are clear), and still surrender your life to God and accept his son/clone as your lord and savior and be redeemed any time you want. People who actually believe in the Christian god are incentivized to break God's rules (where they are clear) because they believe they can be saved by doing just that.

 

[steve_bank]

That is a valiant attempt to salvage steve_banks' Op but if you've been following the thread you'll see that's NOT his view.

He won't clarify his point by asking...

"Can you be a Christian and defiantly disobey God (sin) as often as you like with some sort of 'hall pass' mentality."

The answer to which is an emphatic - no.

So, hang on, you're saying this passage does NOT say, "now that you're done sinning and ready to turn away everythign you did back then is forgiven" ????

I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.[/B] 20For when you were slaves to sin, you were free of obligation to righteousness. 21What fruit did you reap at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The outcome of those things is death.…

Looks to me like it EXPLICITLY SAYS exactly what Steve alleges, namely, "Sin now, repent later; Win. (Count on it.)"

When Christians are confronted with an uncomfortable truth, especially Baptists, Evangelicals and independents they start to bable and preach. It is a defense mechanism. The hardcore will loudly vent and rage waving a bible as a talisman.

 

[steve_bank]

That is a valiant attempt to salvage steve_banks' Op but if you've been following the thread you'll see that's NOT his view.

He won't clarify his point by asking...

"Can you be a Christian and defiantly disobey God (sin) as often as you like with some sort of 'hall pass' mentality."

The answer to which is an emphatic - no.

You are confronted with an inconvenient passage where Jesus reaffirms Moses and prophets. In another passage he reaffirms Moses' ban on divorce, 'what god has put together let no man put asunder'.

It is inescapable, to be a follower of Jesus you must keep kosher. If you want to say the bible is the word of god.