Immigration Solution Discussion

[Ford]

By the following morning, the city bigwigs had launched into action. From the mayor and city council members to CEOs of big companies. Spanish language robocalls. Radio spots. All explaining that Columbus values everyone. We don't care about your immigration status. We wont let the feds interfere with your right to work here, we don't care what the INS tries to do, we won't let them.

If that's not "sanctuary city", I don't know what it is.

By the next day, things were getting back to normal. Factories humming. Work going on.

How totally not surprising!

One of the biggest supporters of illegal immigration is your local chamber of commerce. Not publicly, of course, but push comes to shove (as it did in Columbus) , and suddenly it's not such a big "they took our jobs!" problem. The power dynamic is pretty messed up as well. The migrants have zero power. They have to hide in the shadows of the economy lest they get caught. The people who pad their bottom line by hiring undocumented workers at a discount? I'm sure this move to become a "sanctuary city" didn't happen because the workers came - hat in hand - to local politicians saying "save us!" No, it was a phone call from a businessman that probably sounded like "Jeez, Jim, we don't do something about this my operation is screwed. I need these people and I don't care where they come from."

The narrative in the anti-immigrant media is that sanctuary cities exist only because of "bleeding heart liberals" who want illegal immigrants to vote Democrat. In reality? Chamber of commerce. Business groups. Lobbyists applying pressure to nerf any law which targets employers. Gotta keep that factory running somehow...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What do you guys think about decriminalizing drugs? would that help or just further destabilize the situation?

BTW, totally agree with a guest worker program.

I'm for full legalization, not merely decriminalizing.

Date rape drugs: Still illegal.

Non-addictive stuff: Legal.

Addictive stuff: Either legal or legal by prescription with addiction a valid reason for a prescription.

 

[JohnG]

What do you guys think about decriminalizing drugs? would that help or just further destabilize the situation?

BTW, totally agree with a guest worker program.

I'm for full legalization, not merely decriminalizing.

Date rape drugs: Still illegal.

Non-addictive stuff: Legal.

Addictive stuff: Either legal or legal by prescription with addiction a valid reason for a prescription.

I feel decriminalization is the way to go too - I’m thinking specifically how it would affect central and South American countries where those who run the black market, run the country.

Would it be a positive for the people? Or would it create chaos?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What do you guys think about decriminalizing drugs? would that help or just further destabilize the situation?

BTW, totally agree with a guest worker program.

I'm for full legalization, not merely decriminalizing.

Date rape drugs: Still illegal.

Non-addictive stuff: Legal.

Addictive stuff: Either legal or legal by prescription with addiction a valid reason for a prescription.

I feel decriminalization is the way to go too - I’m thinking specifically how it would affect central and South American countries where those who run the black market, run the country.

Would it be a positive for the people? Or would it create chaos?

For the producer countries it would create short term pain but long term benefits as the cartels would lose their power.

 

[Lumpenproletariat]

In the current situation, the solution is to send all those kids on to their U.S. relatives/sponsors, instead of housing them at taxpayers' expense. The sponsors could be charged a price, or deposit. For the older teenage males the price/deposit should be higher, since they're a higher risk. Some of the older males should be turned back to Mexico, unless they're coming to work and have an employer ready to hire them. The employer should pay a deposit and the worker sent to them immediately.

Cheap labor is good for the economy.

The only realistic solution overall is OPEN BORDERS, which is politically incorrect. Anything the government does about it just makes everything worse overall.

No one can give a good reason why open borders wouldn't lead to the best results, compared to any other solution anyone has.

 

[Swammerdami]

I saw a news headline related to Immigration which tickled my funny-bone:

Biden to let ban on visas popular with tech firms expire.

Former President Trump had placed moratorium on H1-B visas used by firms to hire foreign coders, engineers.

H1-B's are not just for coders and engineers; other skilled specialists can get them also.

A certain "high-class" hooker, Melania Knauss, got one with help via Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I saw a news headline related to Immigration which tickled my funny-bone:

Biden to let ban on visas popular with tech firms expire.

Former President Trump had placed moratorium on H1-B visas used by firms to hire foreign coders, engineers.

H1-B's are not just for coders and engineers; other skilled specialists can get them also.

A certain "high-class" hooker, Melania Knauss, got one with help via Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

She had an EB-1, not an H-1B!

 

[Swammerdami]

She entered the country with an EB-1 (the so-called "Einstein" visa, also for skilled specialists) but renewed it as an H1-B a few months later.

 

[barbos]

She entered the country with an EB-1 (the so-called "Einstein" visa, also for skilled specialists) but renewed it as an H1-B a few months later.

Got dumber in just few months

 

[Harry Bosch]

In the current situation, the solution is to send all those kids on to their U.S. relatives/sponsors, instead of housing them at taxpayers' expense. The sponsors could be charged a price, or deposit. For the older teenage males the price/deposit should be higher, since they're a higher risk. Some of the older males should be turned back to Mexico, unless they're coming to work and have an employer ready to hire them. The employer should pay a deposit and the worker sent to them immediately.

Cheap labor is good for the economy.

The only realistic solution overall is OPEN BORDERS, which is politically incorrect. Anything the government does about it just makes everything worse overall.

No one can give a good reason why open borders wouldn't lead to the best results, compared to any other solution anyone has.

The cheap labor dosn't last very long! Studies have shown that the children of immigrants are the most entrepreneurial and successful classes in the country. They commit fewer crimes per capita and are on the least amount of government help. There is no economic argument against immigrants coming in (whether invited or not).

 

[SimpleDon]

What I know that might help the discussion.

1) Securing the border has been part of the problem, not a solution. It turned a problem of males crossing the border for seasonal farm work into a problem of males seeking year around work because they wanted their families with them since they could no longer cross the border freely to return in the winter to their families. Increased border security made it harder to cross the border and this had the unintended consequence of making the problem worse.

I don't know how to solve problem #1 since it would require the xenophobes to admit that they are part of the problem and that they have to give up their one rather simplistic solution for the problem.

2) The problem with illegal immigrants working is that they are illegal immigrants and paid less than legal residents, obviously. This is why they are attractive to employers because they increase the employers' profits, not because they result in lower prices for consumers.

Problem #2 points out to us two things. That the demand in the economy for workers who will accept a lower wage is limitless and that the demand for workers is not being met by the native population. The solution is obvious, increase the number of immigrants that we accept from Mexico and Central America.

3) Entering the US without proper papers, i.e. a passport with a valid visa, was made illegal in 1964, as a part of securing the border.

4) While it is illegal, no one is ever charged with breaking this law because it is only a class 3 misdemeanor, less of an offense against the collective than a moving violation like speeding on federal government property. And the most that the border patrol could do is to issue a ticket to appear later in an appropriate court and to release the individual. Under their authority as border patrol, they can do much more with people suspected of entering the country without going through immigration control at the border.

The solution for #3 and #4 is also obvious, repeal the law that makes entering the country without presenting oneself to immigration control or doing so without the required passport or visa. It is simple. They would no longer be "illegals." The only benefit from the law is to allow the xenophobes and others to demean the individuals as "illegals," that is as criminals. While the truth of the matter is that every driver who speeds on the streets and highways is more of an illegal and criminal than an illegal immigrant.

 

[steve_bank]

Just looked at a video on CNN on a 3 and 5 year old being dropped from the top of the fence in NM. The adults did not cross. Then we video of kids not being treated well when they are literally dumped over the border.

You can not condone illegal immigration and then complain we do not do enough for increasing numbers. Cognitive Dissonance.

This is what not strongly communicating no one gets in illegibly and Biden saying kids will not be turned away leads to.

 

[bleubird]

We need to find a way to help them want to stay in their own countries.We helped fuck up central America in last century. Time to help fix it.

 

[barbos]

We need to find a way to help them want to stay in their own countries.We helped fuck up central America in last century. Time to help fix it.

Helped? you are too modest.

 

[ZiprHead]

We need to find a way to help them want to stay in their own countries.We helped fuck up central America in last century. Time to help fix it.

Helped? you are too modest.

Was it US citizens throwing nuns out of helicopters?

 

[Politesse]

We need to find a way to help them want to stay in their own countries.We helped fuck up central America in last century. Time to help fix it.

Helped? you are too modest.

Was it US citizens throwing nuns out of helicopters?

No, just US money. Which is more dangerous?

 

[Harry Bosch]

We need to find a way to help them want to stay in their own countries.We helped fuck up central America in last century. Time to help fix it.

Americans won't do anything just to right a wrong in the past. You have to make the case that helping latin America lift itself up helps the US by creating more capitalist producers and consumers.

 

[Harry Bosch]

What I know that might help the discussion.

1) Securing the border has been part of the problem, not a solution. It turned a problem of males crossing the border for seasonal farm work into a problem of males seeking year around work because they wanted their families with them since they could no longer cross the border freely to return in the winter to their families. Increased border security made it harder to cross the border and this had the unintended consequence of making the problem worse.

I don't know how to solve problem #1 since it would require the xenophobes to admit that they are part of the problem and that they have to give up their one rather simplistic solution for the problem.

2) The problem with illegal immigrants working is that they are illegal immigrants and paid less than legal residents, obviously. This is why they are attractive to employers because they increase the employers' profits, not because they result in lower prices for consumers.

Problem #2 points out to us two things. That the demand in the economy for workers who will accept a lower wage is limitless and that the demand for workers is not being met by the native population. The solution is obvious, increase the number of immigrants that we accept from Mexico and Central America.

3) Entering the US without proper papers, i.e. a passport with a valid visa, was made illegal in 1964, as a part of securing the border.

4) While it is illegal, no one is ever charged with breaking this law because it is only a class 3 misdemeanor, less of an offense against the collective than a moving violation like speeding on federal government property. And the most that the border patrol could do is to issue a ticket to appear later in an appropriate court and to release the individual. Under their authority as border patrol, they can do much more with people suspected of entering the country without going through immigration control at the border.

The solution for #3 and #4 is also obvious, repeal the law that makes entering the country without presenting oneself to immigration control or doing so without the required passport or visa. It is simple. They would no longer be "illegals." The only benefit from the law is to allow the xenophobes and others to demean the individuals as "illegals," that is as criminals. While the truth of the matter is that every driver who speeds on the streets and highways is more of an illegal and criminal than an illegal immigrant.

The majority of the "illegals" cross over the border legally with a visa, but then overstay their visa.

 

[Harry Bosch]

We need to find a way to help them want to stay in their own countries.We helped fuck up central America in last century. Time to help fix it.

Helped? you are too modest.

Too correct! The US made a great mistake in not helping Latin Americans similar to how Russia helped and nurtured freedom in the Eastern European countries!

 

[barbos]

We need to find a way to help them want to stay in their own countries.We helped fuck up central America in last century. Time to help fix it.

Helped? you are too modest.

Too correct! The US made a great mistake in not helping Latin Americans similar to how Russia helped and nurtured freedom in the Eastern European countries!

But you did and much more than USSR did for Eastern Europe. Don't be modest and take the credit.