Is it racist for a prostitute to reject black men?

[bilby]

I still don't see what is unique about prostitution in this respect. For a prostitute, sex is NOT different from other workplace activities - sex IS her workplace activity.

Of course sex is different from other workplace activities perhaps you're not empathetic enough to realize this. Do you have any evidence prostitutes view their work like some typical office job?

Well it is their job; I doubt they view it like an office job, as it is more icky than typing numbers into a spreadsheet; but I can't see why it is uniquely more icky than other icky jobs, like working in an abattoir or a sewer. Perhaps you are not empathetic enough to realise that there are a lot of really vile jobs out there?

I fail to see how sex is uniquely 'worse' as a job than any other paid employment; presumably anyone who really dislikes the idea of having sex for a living would get a different job - just as someone who really dislikes wading in blood and guts would choose not to work at an abattoir, and someone who doesn't like putting their arm up a cow would choose not to be a large animal vet.

 

[RavenSky]

This is an interesting discussion.

It actually is. I hate to say it but I think Tom Sawyer makes a good case that racial discrimination in the workplace is illegal, which means that if sex is one's job...

But would that then also apply to gender? A female prostitute would be required to accept a female customer?

ETA - Tom beat me to the last question, too

 

[bilby]

This is an interesting discussion.

It actually is. I hate to say it but I think Tom Sawyer makes a good case that racial discrimination in the workplace is illegal, which means that if sex is one's job...

But would that then also apply to gender? A female prostitute would be required to accept a female customer?

No prostitute is required to accept any customer. They are just legally obliged not to use race (or gender) as their sole criterion for rejecting customers.

The same is true of any business. Nobody is required to sell you anything; but they can't say "I would sell you this thing, but simply because you are black/female/jewish I shall not"

 

[Tom Sawyer]

This is an interesting discussion.

It actually is. I hate to say it but I think Tom Sawyer makes a good case that racial discrimination in the workplace is illegal, which means that if sex is one's job...

But would that then also apply to gender? A female prostitute would be required to accept a female customer?

They do have those woman's only health clubs, so it would appear that a rationale for an exemption exists, but I'm not totally sure what the argument for it would be or if those places have ever had their policies legally challenged.

Additionally, it could be argued that sex with a woman is a different type of activity than sex with a man, so it would be akin to a lawyer saying that he does estate planning but doesn't draw up divorce agreements.

 

[RavenSky]

...you can't discriminate the applicants based on race without a good reason (for example, if you're looking for a model or an actor for a specific role that needs to be of particular ethnicity)...

an example of an exception to the general rule. Are there other exceptions?

 

[thebeave]

Would a legal prostitute rejecting a black customer be analogous to a female urologist or proctologist not accepting black men as patients? Its kind of the same thing in that both professions are intimately handling the man's "junk" and various orifices.

 

[fast]

This is an interesting discussion.

It actually is. I hate to say it but I think Tom Sawyer makes a good case that racial discrimination in the workplace is illegal, which means that if sex is one's job...

But would that then also apply to gender? A female prostitute would be required to accept a female customer?

They do have those woman's only health clubs, so it would appear that a rationale for an exemption exists, but I'm not totally sure what the argument for it would be or if those places have ever had their policies legally challenged.

Additionally, it could be argued that sex with a woman is a different type of activity than sex with a man, so it would be akin to a lawyer saying that he does estate planning but doesn't draw up divorce agreements.

If the business offers only coitus, then sex of a different variety is simply a service not offered. Must we increase our product line to avoid charges of discrimination?

 

[NobleSavage]

sex IS her workplace activity.

I always here about the people who hire prostitutes just to talk to them. I've always wondered if that ever really happens.

If I had more money to burn, I might rent a prostitute for an hour and then sit there chatting about my day. Just to see what her reaction is.

Yes, it does happen. I have a fried that is an "escort". She had an ok paying cubical job and couldn't stand it so she put up an ad on Craigslist (all the prostitutes used to hang out on CL until their was legal pressure to kick them off. They all migrated to backpage.) she charges $300 an hr. And often goes on weekend trips with her Jon's to Vegas or what not. Some guys pay her to pee in a cup others just want to snuggle and some like to talk. You can request a GFE (girl friend experience) where you go out for dinner and talk and flirt and then go home to fuck. Kissing is usually ok with a GFE.

My friend doesn't need to advertise any more as she has plenty of regulars. Somehow the girls are networked and share stories and info on good and bad clients. The top tier girls don't do any ads and only take on new customers if they are verified by the grapevine.

 

[EricK]

I still don't see what is unique about prostitution in this respect. For a prostitute, sex is NOT different from other workplace activities - sex IS her workplace activity.

Of course sex is different from other workplace activities perhaps you're not empathetic enough to realize this. Do you have any evidence prostitutes view their work like some typical office job?

Well it is their job; I doubt they view it like an office job, as it is more icky than typing numbers into a spreadsheet; but I can't see why it is uniquely more icky than other icky jobs, like working in an abattoir or a sewer. Perhaps you are not empathetic enough to realise that there are a lot of really vile jobs out there?

Would it be racist if an abattoir worker refused to slaughter a black cow?

 

[Unbeatable]

Funny this should come up here wrt prostitutes. The discussion's been more reasonable than the ones at the porn forum I post at about female performers who don't do interracial scenes(which in porn-keyword-speak means "sex with a black man"). Some are racists themselves, some have been said to have possibly been sexually assaulted by black men in the past and thus developed negative associations or triggers, and a lot seem to avoid IR for career reasons, mainly because of this idea that doing IR will tarnish their image in the eyes of a lot of potential viewers from certain parts of the US. Performing in porn is legal, and AFAIK a performer doesn't have to sign up to do an IR scene anymore than an actress in mainstream cinema has to accept a role in a film where they play someone in an interracial relationship. This results in a lot of people complaining that their favorite white performer won't do IR, but I wouldn't say there's much of a shortage of performers who are willing to do it.

 

[dystopian]

I'm sorry, but isn't there a difference between a *business/organization* denying people service based on skin color/creed/whatever and *individuals* doing so?

If you're a place of business that sells a product or general service, then there's really no legitimate reason to deny someone service on such criteria. A black person's money is just as good to a restaurant as a white person's money; and if the restaurant refuses to offer such a general service on such a basis then that is obviously against the law.

However, a prostitute isn't a business or organization; he/she is an *individual* providing a service, and it's not a general/universal service; it's a specialized and individualized service that requires *consent* from both parties. (forcing someone to have sex with a person they don't want to is rape; this doesn't change by claiming they have to do so because otherwise its racist and anyway they should've thought about that before becoming a prostitute: consent is still required).

Now, if a BROTHEL denied black people service even though there might be prostitutes there willing to service them, then that's a very different matter. But one can't reasonably apply the same standard on service transactions between individuals.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

So, you're saying that if a restaurant denies service to blacks, that's bad but if blacks are welcome there and it's just that none of the individual waiters will serve black people, that's fine?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I'm sorry, but isn't there a difference between a *business/organization* denying people service based on skin color/creed/whatever and *individuals* doing so?

If you're a place of business that sells a product or general service, then there's really no legitimate reason to deny someone service on such criteria. A black person's money is just as good to a restaurant as a white person's money; and if the restaurant refuses to offer such a general service on such a basis then that is obviously against the law.

However, a prostitute isn't a business or organization; he/she is an *individual* providing a service, and it's not a general/universal service; it's a specialized and individualized service that requires *consent* from both parties. (forcing someone to have sex with a person they don't want to is rape; this doesn't change by claiming they have to do so because otherwise its racist and anyway they should've thought about that before becoming a prostitute: consent is still required).

Now, if a BROTHEL denied black people service even though there might be prostitutes there willing to service them, then that's a very different matter. But one can't reasonably apply the same standard on service transactions between individuals.

So, you're saying that if a restaurant denies service to blacks, that's bad but if blacks are welcome there and it's just that none of the individual waiters will serve black people, that's fine?

hold on there Tom

Depending on specifics, a prostitute may be legally allowed to say no for whatever reason, including race. There is legal precedent for it.

The Civil Rights Act of 1968, aka The Fair Housing Act, clearly states that no realtor, private party or agents there of can discriminate based on race and a few more criteria. However the law has two exceptions, one of which doesn't apply here and that does, the Mrs. Murphy exception.

"Mrs. Murphy’s exemption.” This exemption states that if the dwelling has four or less units and the owner lives in one of the units, it is exempt from the Fair Housing Act. The logic behind this being that you cannot force someone to quarter someone else in their personal home if to do so would cause distress to the owner. Sorta along the same lines as not being forced to quarter troops.

A person's body is surely as sacrosanct as a dwelling.

In a land where prostution was legal, such a specific exemption could theoretically exist and fall within the realm of established legal thought.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, how is that particularly different from an accountant who says he's distressed by doing a black person's taxes?

If person has rented out rooms in his home and that's his business, then a law allowing them to racially discriminate to a degree more than someone who is renting out rooms in the home next door to his is a shitty law which needs to be repealed. The prostitute has chosen a profession where her body is the tool of her business. If she doesn't like the implications of that, she's free not to be a prostitute but she shouldn't be free to ignore laws and regulations that she doesn't feel like following.

 

[dystopian]

So, you're saying that if a restaurant denies service to blacks, that's bad but if blacks are welcome there and it's just that none of the individual waiters will serve black people, that's fine?

Clearly not, since the waiters aren't engaging in an individual contract between themselves and the customer. They're employed by the restaurant; the situation isn't at all analogous to that of a prostitute (even one working in a legal brothel, since it's still a contract between themselves and the client). When a prostitute is *forced* to have sex with someone it's rape (legally or morally), regardless of whether or not she gets paid for it; when a waiter is forced to serve someone he doesn't like, it's NOT rape.

You can't on one hand define non-consensual sex as rape, while also forcing prostitutes to have sex with anyone willing to pay. If a prostitute doesn't want to have sex with black people, then while that may be racist, we can't force them to have sex with them; just like we can't force a non-prostitute to have sex with black people. The potential for the exchange of money changes nothing in this case.

Prostitution is perfectly legal in my country; and I'm pretty sure they can refuse service on whatever grounds they wish. No politician would be suicidal enough to try and create or enforce a law that says prostitutes should be forced to have sex against their will on any of the arguments I've seen in this thread; they'd never get elected anywhere ever again. Having sex for money is *not* analogous to working in a restaurant or being an accountant; something that I think is perfectly well understood in any country where prostitution is legal.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

So, you're saying that if a restaurant denies service to blacks, that's bad but if blacks are welcome there and it's just that none of the individual waiters will serve black people, that's fine?

Clearly not, since the waiters aren't engaging in an individual contract between themselves and the customer. They're employed by the restaurant; the situation isn't at all analogous to that of a prostitute (even one working in a legal brothel, since it's still a contract between themselves and the client). When a prostitute is *forced* to have sex with someone it's rape (legally or morally), regardless of whether or not she gets paid for it; when a waiter is forced to serve someone he doesn't like, it's NOT rape.

You can't on one hand define non-consensual sex as rape, while also forcing prostitutes to have sex with anyone willing to pay. If a prostitute doesn't want to have sex with black people, then while that may be racist, we can't force them to have sex with them; just like we can't force a non-prostitute to have sex with black people. The potential for the exchange of money changes nothing in this case.

Again, nobody's forcing anyone to have sex with anyone. They are no more forced to have sex with black men than a restaurant owner is forced to serve black people meals or a pharmacist is forced to sell birth control pills. They can always choose to say no and not work in an industry which has requirements that they don't want to follow.

There's zero amount of rape going on.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Well, how is that particularly different from an accountant who says he's distressed by doing a black person's taxes?

well, a CPA is a Certified PUBLIC Accountant, and therefore legally obligated to serve the public, the whole public.

If person has rented out rooms in his home and that's his business, then a law allowing them to racially discriminate to a degree more than someone who is renting out rooms in the home next door to his is a shitty law which needs to be repealed.

so an elderly woman wishing to rent the room acrossed the hall from hers in her private home to a female college student should be forced to rent that same room to an oil rig roustabout that scares her? Is her home her home or a public accommodation? Should all female or all male hotels and hostiles be outlawed?

The prostitute has chosen a profession where her body is the tool of her business. If she doesn't like the implications of that, she's free not to be a prostitute but she shouldn't be free to ignore laws and regulations that she doesn't feel like following.

so a prostitute can't be raped? And should the human body be afforded a legal status above the status of a hammer?

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

Any chance that the prostitute was also black? If so, would it still be racist or would it be a preference/business decision?

aa

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, it is racist.

It is only a problem where prostitution is legalized. Then a whore and her whorehouse could be sued for discrimination.

In the world of crime, it's not an issue. As an earlier poster said, it's not a problem a good beating from her pimp won't solve.

In practice they basically never actually turn someone down, they just insist on too high a price. (All the legal prostitutes in the US are independent contractors even if they work in a brothel. The brothel can set a minimum price, the actual price is negotiated between client and working girl.)

- - - Updated - - -

I've never hired a prostitute -- maybe some day -- but, I get get a kick out of reading their ads on backpage.com I've noticed many of them say NO black men.

Here's a silly idea that probably won't hold up, but just for funs sake, it's okay to discriminate against someone if the basis is purely skin color, as skin color is not a protected class. For instance, refusing to have sex with all black Caucasians and all black African Americans when not race but rather skin color is the issue, then discriminatory or not, it wouldn't therefore be racist, as the race has no bearing on your choice. So, be prepared to have sex with both white Caucasians and white African Americans.

Michael Jackson?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They do have those woman's only health clubs, so it would appear that a rationale for an exemption exists, but I'm not totally sure what the argument for it would be or if those places have ever had their policies legally challenged.

My wife goes to one of those--and the owner once told me that they can't actually enforce it.