Is nature the only true, holy, and worthy God?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Is nature the only true, holy, and worthy God?

We are ignoring the only deity that can and does speak to us. Nature, via our deteriorating eco system.

Instead, we listen to the promises of the religious liars who promote a supernatural savior entity, --- instead of having us move on our own and carry our crosses the way Jesus tells us to do.

To save the Earth, we need to ignore, --- better still, --- shed supernatural beliefs, --- and start believing in and sanctifying our physical reality Nature, and the Earth that sustains us.

Jesus said that at some point in time, we would elect a new god.

I see this as a good time for that, as we are a part of a major global extinction event that will change us, if not end us.

Perhaps it will make us care more about each other if we are voting with or against each other for a new savior.

Holy is a title that one gives to that which has earned it.

It is demonstrable that nature creates for the best possible end to all life.

Scriptures have God creating souls for the worst possible end on the wide road to hell, as compared to the small path to heaven.

I vote for nature. I can hear her, and she is nicer.

What/who do you hear?

Regards
DL

 

[Politesse]

That was the standpoint of the Stoics of old. A frequently disrepected and abandoned religious tradition, in the modern world. But perhaps that is why we're burning our planet to death.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

That was the standpoint of the Stoics of old. A frequently disrepected and abandoned religious tradition, in the modern world. But perhaps that is why we're burning our planet to death.

Perhaps.

I would prefer us revering nature instead of the genocidal, homophobic and misogynous gods religions somehow see as good.

A natural god is for the bright minds.

A supernatural god is for the dimmer minds.

Regards
DL


Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

Ok, what is nature?

I believe in the One Nature, the Nature Almighty...or something like that?


When I walk through a nearby park there is one rock that speaks to me. It is quite friendly.

Nature

plagues and pandemics
hurricanes
tornados
earthquakes
solar flares
killer cosmic ray bursts
asteroid strikes
predators and prey
super nova

All that does speak to me, it says the universe is a violent chaotic existence. From an engineering view anything that designed it or caused it to be has its head up its ass.

Concepts like the universe is love or is 'holy' is as all religions an attempt to put a veneer on the harsh reality of existence as it is.

The universe is holy therefore I feel holy and special. Same as god is holy, I believe in god, therefore I am and feel holy. Worship of nature worship of Yahweh six of one half a dozen the other.

Relgious belief of any kind gibe the believers a relgiious experience, biologically based in feel good endorphins in the brain.

The first time I drove cross country was in 1979. I was in the middle of Montana on a clear moonless night far away from light pollution. Montana is called Big Sky Country. Stars were vivid and I could see the Milky Way. It was a 'religious' experience to be sure.

In the 90s I liastened to a neuro scientists talk about his experiments. He ran brain scans on relgiius peole while they prayed and cntemplated god. He found it lit up a particualr area of the brain.

Unintentionally he had secular scientists in his control group. He found that when they contemplated science and the cosmos, they lit up the same area in the brain.

A possible conclusion, the experience of wonder and 'holiness' is not specific to religion, all human experience is common with different names.

If a magic crystal hanging in your home gives your home a feeling of holiness then good for you. If citeplating unverse as a holy god gives you a good feeling, good for you.

Whatever 'it' is, it is all in your head and chemistry. Physicals reality is what it is however you frame it. Walk alone through places in Africa and a lion may eat you or an elephant may trample you to e death. If you are deprived of air, food, and water you die. If you step off a high building you die or get injured.

To the secular free thinkr I am, nothing is worth worship. As much as possible I reject all -isms and -ologies political, philosophical, and religious. Creating an image to worship invariably leads to abuse.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Ok, what is nature?

I believe in the One Nature, the Nature Almighty...or something like that?


When I walk through a nearby park there is one rock that speaks to me. It is quite friendly.

Nature

plagues and pandemics
hurricanes
tornados
earthquakes
solar flares
killer cosmic ray bursts
asteroid strikes
predators and prey
super nova

All that does speak to me, it says the universe is a violent chaotic existence. From an engineering view anything that designed it or caused it to be has its head up its ass.

Concepts like the universe is love or is 'holy' is as all religions an attempt to put a veneer on the harsh reality of existence as it is.

The universe is holy therefore I feel holy and special. Same as god is holy, I believe in god, therefore I am and feel holy. Worship of nature worship of Yahweh six of one half a dozen the other.

Relgious belief of any kind gibe the believers a relgiious experience, biologically based in feel good endorphins in the brain.

The first time I drove cross country was in 1979. I was in the middle of Montana on a clear moonless night far away from light pollution. Montana is called Big Sky Country. Stars were vivid and I could see the Milky Way. It was a 'religious' experience to be sure.

In the 90s I liastened to a neuro scientists talk about his experiments. He ran brain scans on relgiius peole while they prayed and cntemplated god. He found it lit up a particualr area of the brain.

Unintentionally he had secular scientists in his control group. He found that when they contemplated science and the cosmos, they lit up the same area in the brain.

A possible conclusion, the experience of wonder and 'holiness' is not specific to religion, all human experience is common with different names.

If a magic crystal hanging in your home gives your home a feeling of holiness then good for you. If citeplating unverse as a holy god gives you a good feeling, good for you.

Whatever 'it' is, it is all in your head and chemistry. Physicals reality is what it is however you frame it. Walk alone through places in Africa and a lion may eat you or an elephant may trample you to e death. If you are deprived of air, food, and water you die. If you step off a high building you die or get injured.

To the secular free thinkr I am, nothing is worth worship. As much as possible I reject all -isms and -ologies political, philosophical, and religious. Creating an image to worship invariably leads to abuse.

Like it or not, whatever ideology or combination of thinking systems you cherry pick from, be they political, philosophical or religious, you end with an ism.

That is why Gnostic Christians define god as the best rules and laws to live by, and why we have condemned Yahweh to hell.

Regards
DL

 

[steve_bank]

Practically speaking yes.

Not the same as inventing self serving isms on a whim or living according to a narrow ideology. Witness conservative Abrahamic faiths and American politics. To get elected with a few exceptions once has to at least outwardly conform to a religion or ideology.

I believe sconce and its methodologies are the best way to understand reality. Some call it scientism as opposed to theology. All that exists is by definition natural whether or not we can detect it or explain it, Naturalism and Freethought.

Regardless of what one worships, the psycho physical experience of the worshipper is the same. Religious conflict arises when different worshippers claim their religious experience is better or exclusive, and reduces worship to a narrow definition of the best or only legitimate worship.

Categories and Pidgeon holes can not be eliminated, we can not function without them. However we can try to rise above the limitations of categories and pigeonholing and not have our thinking limited by them.

Reality is what it is. Simple observation without an -ism to filter it,which is part of Freethought, says the universe is a violent chaotic existence, Why worship that?

A more enjoyable and traditional form of worship, a Japanese penis fertility festival. A parade with a giant penis.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...kanamara-matsuri-festival-steel-phallus-penis

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Practically speaking yes.


Reality is what it is. Simple observation without an -ism to filter it,which is part of Freethought, says the universe is a violent chaotic existence, Why worship that?

]

Thanks for your first.

To your last.

You describe what I call realism. Another ism.

Why should you,-------------- did I use the word worship?

I do not believe in worship either.

I did say we should name the earth as holy and venerate it, so as to protect it.

The Earth needs our help against ourselves, and we destroy ourselves if we do not heed her needs on saving what gives us life.

Now if worship turn to ethical actions for the masses, even I will waste my time and worship.

Regards
DL


.

 

[Elixir]

I agree that science is the most effective tool humans have for converging on the truth. One can be in awe of reality, and know that neither science nor any other way of learning will ever give us more than a tiny glimpse of all there is, without descending into stupified worship or indulging in “isms”. But it is tempting, since “nature” is so incredible.
Just took this picture, looking east after the sun had set behind the mountains to the west.

 

[Learner]

Ok, what is nature?

I believe in the One Nature, the Nature Almighty...or something like that?


When I walk through a nearby park there is one rock that speaks to me. It is quite friendly.

Nature

plagues and pandemics
hurricanes
tornados
earthquakes
solar flares
killer cosmic ray bursts
asteroid strikes
predators and prey
super nova

All that does speak to me, it says the universe is a violent chaotic existence. From an engineering view anything that designed it or caused it to be has its head up its ass.

Concepts like the universe is love or is 'holy' is as all religions an attempt to put a veneer on the harsh reality of existence as it is.

I agree in part to some of the above you've highlighted. Some beliefs having the concept 'the universe is love,' although thats not a Christian concept, as you may know. The biblical concept is, God is Love, and the bit that agrees with you is 'the universe is harsh' bit. (Death came into the world from sin etc..etc..)

Besides... the mechanisms of the universe, the fixed laws & processes, producing the USUAL properties in matter, is mechanically superior, it seems to me. Man made machines don't maintain themselves. If there's no one there to maintain them -the machines will never run again. The universe is always in motion, spinning and coliding forming more of the repetitive same...so predictable you can produce charts and periodic tables by etc. & etc.. Of course I understand, you mean preferably a universe with the specifications of the heavenly ... the highest possible comfort level. Like a paradise in Heaven maybe?

 

[steve_bank]

Practically speaking yes.


Reality is what it is. Simple observation without an -ism to filter it,which is part of Freethought, says the universe is a violent chaotic existence, Why worship that?

]

Thanks for your first.

To your last.

You describe what I call realism. Another ism.

Why should you,-------------- did I use the word worship?

I do not believe in worship either.

I did say we should name the earth as holy and venerate it, so as to protect it.

The Earth needs our help against ourselves, and we destroy ourselves if we do not heed her needs on saving what gives us life.

Now if worship turn to ethical actions for the masses, even I will waste my time and worship.

Regards
DL


.

That is very sensible. That the Earth was given to humans by god to consume is something I have heard from Christians.

I believe in part Genesis is why we have so hard a time with the environment, humans have a god given biblical superiority. I once heard a Christian say when thearth is consumed god will transport the faithful to a new planet.

 

[steve_bank]

Ok, what is nature?

I believe in the One Nature, the Nature Almighty...or something like that?


When I walk through a nearby park there is one rock that speaks to me. It is quite friendly.

Nature

plagues and pandemics
hurricanes
tornados
earthquakes
solar flares
killer cosmic ray bursts
asteroid strikes
predators and prey
super nova

All that does speak to me, it says the universe is a violent chaotic existence. From an engineering view anything that designed it or caused it to be has its head up its ass.

Concepts like the universe is love or is 'holy' is as all religions an attempt to put a veneer on the harsh reality of existence as it is.

I agree in part to some of the above you've highlighted. Some beliefs having the concept 'the universe is love,' although thats not a Christian concept, as you may know. The biblical concept is, God is Love, and the bit that agrees with you is 'the universe is harsh' bit. (Death came into the world from sin etc..etc..)

Besides... the mechanisms of the universe, the fixed laws & processes, producing the USUAL properties in matter, is mechanically superior, it seems to me. Man made machines don't maintain themselves. If there's no one there to maintain them -the machines will never run again. The universe is always in motion, spinning and coliding forming more of the repetitive same...so predictable you can produce charts and periodic tables by etc. & etc.. Of course I understand, you mean preferably a universe with the specifications of the heavenly ... the highest possible comfort level. Like a paradise in Heaven maybe?

Keep in mind that a long chain of translators have introduced personal interpretations into translations.

The Torah god is not 'love'. It is a creator who gets angry and punishes his creation at times. God is love is a Christian invention.

That Jesus was the son of a god sacrificed for all of humanity is a Christian invention, it is not biblical. IMO bizzare.

 

[Learner]

Keep in mind that a long chain of translators have introduced personal interpretations into translations.

That's why we have have been keeping an eye on the gnostics anti-God (anti-christ) philosophies for centuries

But yes, there are some issues with some of the more modern translations that Christians are finding and warning against.

The Torah god is not 'love'. It is a creator who gets angry and punishes his creation at times. God is love is a Christian invention.

That Jesus was the son of a god sacrificed for all of humanity is a Christian invention, it is not biblical. IMO bizzare.

I suppose if I were to go along with the notion... logically then, Christianity would therefore be a Jewish invention. I 'd rather say continuation to the Torah just as it is for Jews is a continuation to the ancient Hebrew Israelites like Moses, who wasn't a Jew etc.

 

[WAB]

Keep in mind that a long chain of translators have introduced personal interpretations into translations.

That's why we have have been keeping an eye on the gnostics anti-God and satanic philosophy interpretations for centuries

The Torah god is not 'love'. It is a creator who gets angry and punishes his creation at times. God is love is a Christian invention.

That Jesus was the son of a god sacrificed for all of humanity is a Christian invention, it is not biblical. IMO bizzare.

I suppose if I were to go along with the notion... logically then, Christianity would therefore be a Jewish invention. I 'd rather say...[snipped out of necessity, to save time - me]

That's why I pu...er...I mean why God put Spinoza in the world, Learner, because God is Nature, and Nature is God. Baruch (now there was a good kid...quiet, coulda used a few pounds, but good. I asked him t...I mean, God asked him to throw in a few jokes, lighten things up some. But would he? Of course not, but that's beside the point...) wrote that God was, ahem...is a being of infinite attributes, which only means that all those things Steve said about me is tote-illy accurate.

I am mean, and nasty, and evil, and rotten, and horrible, and frightening, everything, you name it. But I'm also everything else you want to call me: Loving, merciful, all-knowing, a father, a mother (what's the look? I can't be a mother? I have a right to be a woman if I want to be. It's my right as a...oh skip it), a son, a ghost, a carpenter, a kid in the desert, an angel, an alien, a tyrant, a dictator, blind, stupid, but also very smart, mind you. I've got a nooo-dle like a camel! Or was it an elephant. I never forget anything. But sometimes I do? What can you do? What can anyone do? Just be thankful you got lucky. Most things? not so much. So you're not perfect? I'm perfect, but then again I'm not, see? See how it woiks? Looks like chaos, but that's just how it looks. Appearances can be deceiving. You remember Rock Hudson? Good kid. But anyway...it's complex, but it's siiiii-mple. Now c'mere, son, do you like films? You like to critique? Well I got two tickets to the...

[curtain]

 

[Learner]

Cheers WAB, You have got me very interested in getting to know much about Spinoza. Thankfully I have a little time to myself woohoo!

(Most if not all of the above in your naughty list is forgivable if in remorse - do the best you can )

Let the film start ...

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

If god is nature then humans are god despite the fact that very many humans unintelligently speak and act as if they are not natural. This of course is why they act self destructively.

 

[southernhybrid]

That was the standpoint of the Stoics of old. A frequently disrepected and abandoned religious tradition, in the modern world. But perhaps that is why we're burning our planet to death.

Nah....We are burning our planet to death because of our long standing ignorance. Now that we know that our bad habits have had a negative impact on our planet, it's really hard to change the mess that we made because change is really hard. We are creatures of habit. It's hard to change long standing habits that we were taught as children. Plus, it's hard to get the world to unite over anything. I think it's probably close to hopeless at this point.

I would say we are off topic, but I'm not sure that there really is a topic to this tread. We should respect Nature, but I don't think that Mother Nature is a god. Just ask WAB. He might be able to 'splain it better.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I agree that science is the most effective tool humans have for converging on the truth. One can be in awe of reality, and know that neither science nor any other way of learning will ever give us more than a tiny glimpse of all there is, without descending into stupified worship or indulging in “isms”. But it is tempting, since “nature” is so incredible.

Nature hold all the answers.

I do not mind the Laïcité and secularism that the world seems to be heading for.

I agree, and in fact hope, that no issue of study ever gets to it's end, even as we know a lot more of most things than we ever did.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

[

That is very sensible. That the Earth was given to humans by god to consume is something I have heard from Christians.

I believe in part Genesis is why we have so hard a time with the environment, humans have a god given biblical superiority. I once heard a Christian say when thearth is consumed god will transport the faithful to a new planet.

Thanks.

I wish the Faithfull would be transported.

Good riddance to piss poor morals.

I do not mind the religions that seek knowledge and wisdom, but those God religions are quite satanic.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

[

The Torah god is not 'love'. It is a creator who gets angry and punishes his creation at times. God is love is a Christian invention.

That Jesus was the son of a god sacrificed for all of humanity is a Christian invention, it is not biblical. IMO bizzare.

Not to get too deeply into this, but if you read the bible and see the naturalistic god I do, god is indeed love.

So are you and I at our core, and that is why man is god.

You are an evolving creature and default to the good and not the evils of evolution.

We all default to good/cooperation and not competition, which produces the small bit of evil in our overall good evolution.

Nature is fantastic indeed.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Keep in mind that a long chain of translators have introduced personal interpretations into translations.

That's why we have have been keeping an eye on the gnostics anti-God (anti-christ) philosophies for centuries

We can be interpreted that way, but we are only anti-Christ and Jesus to the Christian version.

Our version embraces the Jesus mind and seek to elevate ourselves to a Christ consciousness.

I try hard, but even my apotheosis could only do so much with my character and temperament.

The Torah god is not 'love'. It is a creator who gets angry and punishes his creation at times. God is love is a Christian invention.

I can agree here, but only to those who read that god created all good and evil for his pleasure, and ignore the evil part.

That Jesus was the son of a god sacrificed for all of humanity is a Christian invention, it is not biblical. IMO bizzare.

Indeed, but only if you apply moral thinking to it.

Fact is, Jesus even asking someone to put their burden on a scapegoat, would be a sin.

Christians have to sin to be saved.

I suppose if I were to go along with the notion... logically then, Christianity would therefore be a Jewish invention. I 'd rather say continuation to the Torah just as it is for Jews is a continuation to the ancient Hebrew Israelites like Moses, who wasn't a Jew etc.

I do not agree.

Most Jews are agnostic or atheist and the oral traditions are what guide them and they put man above god.

I could agree in the sense that the esoteric ecumenist sects of Judaism, that put man above god, along with Chrestians, created what we now see as Gnostic Christianity. Not Christianity.

Regards
DL