Is the Bible a magic book?

[Elixir]

They can also be harmonized.

Yeah, a good arranger can make any "music" sound good.
But is it a good idea? You know, kids these days and their music...

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Narrowing down specifically on the "not a" or "some" as an argument relying on a 'technicality' (as Bailiffs or lawyers sometimes do in court) is trivially quite harmless to Lions argument and misleading.

Hold on a minute there, buddy. I'm not the one lawyering. You and Lion IRC are.The Christian church and Jehovah/Yahweh/Allah have a long sordid history of murder, including not only genocides and holocausts, but also murdering people for having diferent interpretations of their religious beliefs. It is well known you've been making excuses, but that's what some of this comes down to. Some people may believe "a" and get slaughtered for it while others believed "the" and they got slaughtered by the other crowd. Heretics. Burn them at the stake! Gays? Stone them! You both are lawyering for the defense of a non-existent, narcissistic, genocidal maniac made in the image of man. As mankind's mores have changed, churches are forced to change with the times. You can find whatever textual support you want in a set of books sufficiently large, ambiguous, and contradictory. That hardly means searching out those excuses and re-interpretations isn't lawyering. Because it is.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Yes, Sheol, the DMV of the Tanakh.

 

[Politesse]

Not to be confused with prophetic visions, the DMT of the Tanakh.

 

[steve_bank]

Were interpreting, reading between the lines.

Jesus reinforced Mosaic Law and refereed to the Jewish prophets. I see the gospel Jesus as rejecting the hypocrisy of the Jewish religious establishment. Do what they say not what they do. An angry Jesus in the temple objecting to the commercialization of religion. A Jewish conservative reformer calling fellow Jews back to traditional Jewish values.

The temple of the day was what we would call a corporation. The faithful paid for rituals and services. Support business supplied things like animals for ritual slighter.

There was undoubtedly skimming and collusion with Romans by thJewish religious elite.

You can look at the temple of the day as a modern for profit mega Christian church.

I see nothing in the NT to infer that Jesus said I am no longer a Jew of Jewish faith and am starting a new religion. It is Paul's writings that took the Jewish out of Jesus and made it palatable to gentiles.

It woud be intersting to see a Hip Hop bible.

 

[Lion IRC]

Hold on a minute there, buddy. I'm not the one lawyering.

Weren't you the one calling for citations of 1 Timothy 6:10 translations?

Look at your gnat straining here.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Hold on a minute there, buddy. I'm not the one lawyering.

Weren't you the one calling for citations of 1 Timothy 6:10 translations?

Why wouldn't I? The versions have different meanings. That's not lawyering, it's observing and asking for evidence of claims.

 

[steve_bank]

Lion, keep in mind most or all of us here you argue with do not believe there is any evidence the gospels actually represent the journalistic reporting of what one individual said.

Christians argue an assumption of literal truth that quotes of Jesus are all true.

 

[Elixir]

Not to be confused with prophetic visions, the DMT of the Tanakh.

Or dimethyltryptamine (or other entheogens).

 

[Lion IRC]

Lion, keep in mind most or all of us here you argue with do not believe there is any evidence the gospels actually represent the journalistic reporting of what one individual said.

Christians argue an assumption of literal truth that quotes of Jesus are all true.

Yes, I understand.
It's solely an internal critique as far as you're concerned. Ad arguendo.

Arguendo - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Someone is making too big a deal over whether;

- Money is the root of all evil.
- The love of money is the root of all evil.
- The love of money is a root of all evil.
- The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.
- Things other than the love of money are also the root of all kinds of evil.

 

[Elixir]

I’m perfectly pleased with theists arguing about whether, to what extent money is a/the root of evil or all evil, what sorts of roots best describe money’s relationship to evil etc…

Anything that keeps them - or at least delays them - from doing evil in the pursuit of money, can’t be that bad.
Oh wait - except fear of the vengeance of a tri-Omni monster. It’s that bad.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Lion, keep in mind most or all of us here you argue with do not believe there is any evidence the gospels actually represent the journalistic reporting of what one individual said.

Christians argue an assumption of literal truth that quotes of Jesus are all true.

Yes, I understand.
It's solely an internal critique as far as you're concerned. Ad arguendo.

Arguendo - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Someone is making too big a deal over whether;

- Money is the root of all evil.
- The love of money is the root of all evil.
- The love of money is a root of all evil.
- The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.
- Things other than the love of money are also the root of all kinds of evil.

I'm not someone who has claimed biblical inerrancy. Therefore, there is a tremendous burden on THOSE claimants, not me. Showing inconsistencies of meaning DOES pose a problem for Biblical inerrantists. Why wouldn't it?

 

[Lion IRC]

You mean alleged inconsistencies.
Alleged inconsistencies don't pose a problem. Only real ones.

...but I repeat myself

The very same ambiguity which allows a variety of interpretations ALSO allows alleged contradictions to be harmonized.

 

[Elixir]

You mean alleged inconsistencies.

I think he means apparent inconsistencies. Lots and lots and lots of inconsistencies that are very apparent to those capable of seeing them.

 

[Lion IRC]

Saying something is THE root of all kinds of evil is extraordinarily ambiguous.
It could mean every kind of evil or lots of kinds of evil.

 

[DBT]

We are told in the bible that God creates every kind of evil.

 

[Lion IRC]

We are told in the bible that God creates every kind of evil.

Yes, in an ontological way.

If God forms a thing that now exists, He has made an ontological opposite to existence called 'non' existence.

By forming light, He creates an ontological opposite called darkness - the absence of light.

Obedience to God is good. The ontological opposite - disobedience- is evil. By telling us what is good He is creating an opposite category - sin.

 

[bilby]

By telling us what is good He is creating

...a paradox, which demonstrates unequivocally that an authority cannot arbitrarily define what is good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

 

[Politesse]

We are told in the bible that God creates every kind of evil.

Yes, in an ontological way.

If God forms a thing that now exists, He has made an ontological opposite to existence called 'non' existence.

By forming light, He creates an ontological opposite called darkness - the absence of light.

Obedience to God is good. The ontological opposite - disobedience- is evil. By telling us what is good He is creating an opposite category - sin.

I must have nodded off while reading... I know which verse says the bit about creating good and evuil, but which verse explains it away with a vague ontological apologetic?

 

[steve_bank]

Saying something is THE root of all kinds of evil is extraordinarily ambiguous.
It could mean every kind of evil or lots of kinds of evil.

Christians get rich on religion. A relatively new version of Christianity is the 'success gospel', god wants you to be be rich, obviously self serving foe the modern Christian mega churches and TV Christians like the 500 Club.

There is a guy on TV every week who preaches seed money. Send me money in the name of Jesus and you will gain more than you contribute.