Is the U.S. Too Diverse To Survive?

[SLD]

I pose this question based on recent history. Rush Limbaugh, just before he died, and right after Biden was elected basically said we can no longer continue as one country. We’re just too divided. He may have a point considering what happened on January 6th.

We no longer seem willing to tolerate each other. Democracy is hard and we are lazy. It takes tolerance of other views and different people, and that’s not how we evolved over 100,000 years. As such, it may not last.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...mocracy-228045

It seems to me that we give lip service to democracy. What we really want is order. Ultimately autocracy will triumph or we will split, but I’m not sure how that will go down.

 

[repoman]

A war of all against all.

 

[Patooka]

We no longer seem willing to tolerate each other.

I think it's more accurate to say being outraged is a profitable industry. Diversity has fuck all to do with it. If America was 100% white and Christian, you could still make some good bank pitting the Baptists against the Methodists. Also, the US is not unique in this. Indonesia is not as harmonious as people believe, and Sri Lanka still has issues.

Just accept the fact that not every country can be like Northern Ireland with its peaceful history and lack of diversity.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

There is, quite simply, not enough communism, and not enough conservatives in gulags. It is a sad state of affairs.

 

[bilby]

The parts of the US that are diverse are doing fine.

But they are under attack from the parts that are not diverse, and have no intention of becoming that way. Diversity is a matter of having many different opinions, ideas and backgrounds all adding their part to the overall culture. The non-diverse areas of the US may have people who are different, but those people are absolutely not permitted to add anything. If they're lucky, maybe they're allowed a separate culture all to themselves.

And nothing about this is new, unusual, or surprising. You guys even fought a civil war on those lines a century and a half ago. The only things that change are the positions of the borders, and the details of the outgroups that the non-diverse Americans are fighting to keep down.

 

[Tigers!]

I am always astounded reading about how much you yanks seem to hate each other based upon obtuse or obscure criteria.

Diversity of itself is not the problem. Reaction to said diversity is the problem.

 

[Jayjay]

The US isn't that diverse. Look at other major world powers: Europe/EU, China, Russia, India. I think they are all more diverse than the US (although China is doing its best to rectify it). I don't see any of them falling apart any time soon.

 

[Swammerdami]

Let's look at a single example: Germany. From Wikipedia I learn "In 2015, 36% children under 5 years old [in Germany] had migrant background." There are 1.5 million Turkish nationals with legal residence in Germany. At 5.2% Islam is the 4th-most common religion in Wiki's list for Germany. ("No Religion" is in 1st place with 39% — maybe that's part of the reason they haven't descended into chaos like the U.S.)

So Jayjay is right. Whatever the reasons for U.S. dysfunction, diversity is not the main problem.

As recently as a decade ago, America was an inspiration to the rest of the world, a beacon of freedom. I ask all reading the thread, especially OP, to re-read the sonnet inscribed in the Statue of Liberty:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Time was when travelers like myself were proud to bear the blue passport of the U.S.A. By now, some of us are ashamed and pretend to be Canadian.

So no, "diversity" is NOT the problem. To the contrary Diversity was once the Solution. I'll reveal the problem, but will hope that font size 5 is good enough. OP: Please use your browser's zoom function if you need to see this more clearly.

The U.S.A.'s problem is Stupidity.

In the United States, there are millions of Americans who do not want to take the Covid-19 vaccine because Bill Gates has put implants in the vaccines. If they get the vaccine, they will be brainwashed and forced to forget that the Jews and the Blacks killed Jesus. A huge number of Americans are outraged that the mainstream media ignores one of the biggest stories of our time: Hillary Clinton eats human babies for breakfast. Every single word that oozes out of the fetid pie-holes of would-be Presidents like Ted Cruz or Josh Hawley is a lie. I could go on, but with the bizarre ignorance of OP, I wonder What's the point?

Hope this helps.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Let's look at a single example: Germany. From Wikipedia I learn "In 2015, 36% children under 5 years old [in Germany] had migrant background." There are 1.5 million Turkish nationals with legal residence in Germany. At 5.2% Islam is the 4th-most common religion in Wiki's list for Germany. ("No Religion" is in 1st place with 39% — maybe that's part of the reason they haven't descended into chaos like the U.S.)

So Jayjay is right. Whatever the reasons for U.S. dysfunction, diversity is not the main problem.

As recently as a decade ago, America was an inspiration to the rest of the world, a beacon of freedom. I ask all reading the thread, especially OP, to re-read the sonnet inscribed in the Statue of Liberty:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Time was when travelers like myself were proud to bear the blue passport of the U.S.A. By now, some of us are ashamed and pretend to be Canadian.

So no, "diversity" is NOT the problem. To the contrary Diversity was once the Solution. I'll reveal the problem, but will hope that font size 5 is good enough. OP: Please use your browser's zoom function if you need to see this more clearly.

The U.S.A.'s problem is Stupidity.

In the United States, there are millions of Americans who do not want to take the Covid-19 vaccine because Bill Gates has put implants in the vaccines. If they get the vaccine, they will be brainwashed and forced to forget that the Jews and the Blacks killed Jesus. A huge number of Americans are outraged that the mainstream media ignores one of the biggest stories of our time: Hillary Clinton eats human babies for breakfast. Every single word that oozes out of the fetid pie-holes of would-be Presidents like Ted Cruz or Josh Hawley is a lie. I could go on, but with the bizarre ignorance of OP, I wonder What's the point?

Hope this helps.

You beat me to it. For decades I have been blowing my horn that declining rates of scientific literacy in the U.S. is a symptom of a nation in decline. Maybe the answer is that when life gets too easy people get stupid.

I'd like to add that the path to riches in the U.S. has been traditionally to make something of value and sell it. Now it's easy to become wealthy by not making anything. How does that work?

 

[Swammerdami]

The U.S.A.'s problem is Stupidity.

In the United States, there are millions of Americans who do not want to take the Covid-19 vaccine because Bill Gates has put implants in the vaccines. If they get the vaccine, they will be brainwashed and forced to forget that the Jews and the Blacks killed Jesus. A huge number of Americans are outraged that the mainstream media ignores one of the biggest stories of our time: Hillary Clinton eats human babies for breakfast. Every single word that oozes out of the fetid pie-holes of would-be Presidents like Ted Cruz or Josh Hawley is a lie. I could go on, but with the bizarre ignorance of OP, I wonder What's the point?

After writing this, I wondered if some might think it was an exaggeration. No, it really isn't. The meme that Hillary was running a child sex ring out of a pizzeria basement was promulgated by several leading lights in the GOP. Google "Youtube Jordan Klepper" to see interviews of Republican voters — the stupidity is literally breath-taking.

Anyone thinking the divide among ordinary Americans has anything to with real political issues, or even rational thought of any sort, is dreadfully confused.

 

[Trausti]

The U.S.A.'s problem is Stupidity.

In the United States, there are millions of Americans who do not want to take the Covid-19 vaccine because Bill Gates has put implants in the vaccines. If they get the vaccine, they will be brainwashed and forced to forget that the Jews and the Blacks killed Jesus. A huge number of Americans are outraged that the mainstream media ignores one of the biggest stories of our time: Hillary Clinton eats human babies for breakfast. Every single word that oozes out of the fetid pie-holes of would-be Presidents like Ted Cruz or Josh Hawley is a lie. I could go on, but with the bizarre ignorance of OP, I wonder What's the point?

After writing this, I wondered if some might think it was an exaggeration. No, it really isn't. The meme that Hillary was running a child sex ring out of a pizzeria basement was promulgated by several leading lights in the GOP. Google "Youtube Jordan Klepper" to see interviews of Republican voters — the stupidity is literally breath-taking.

Anyone thinking the divide among ordinary Americans has anything to with real political issues, or even rational thought of any sort, is dreadfully confused.

Yeah, there are a lot of stupid people.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc4Mi4ocyDw[/YOUTUBE]

 

[bilby]

The U.S.A.'s problem is Stupidity.

In the United States, there are millions of Americans who do not want to take the Covid-19 vaccine because Bill Gates has put implants in the vaccines. If they get the vaccine, they will be brainwashed and forced to forget that the Jews and the Blacks killed Jesus. A huge number of Americans are outraged that the mainstream media ignores one of the biggest stories of our time: Hillary Clinton eats human babies for breakfast. Every single word that oozes out of the fetid pie-holes of would-be Presidents like Ted Cruz or Josh Hawley is a lie. I could go on, but with the bizarre ignorance of OP, I wonder What's the point?

After writing this, I wondered if some might think it was an exaggeration. No, it really isn't. The meme that Hillary was running a child sex ring out of a pizzeria basement was promulgated by several leading lights in the GOP. Google "Youtube Jordan Klepper" to see interviews of Republican voters — the stupidity is literally breath-taking.

Anyone thinking the divide among ordinary Americans has anything to with real political issues, or even rational thought of any sort, is dreadfully confused.

Yeah, there are a lot of stupid people.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc4Mi4ocyDw[/YOUTUBE]

We already know. You didn't need to put your hand up.

 

[Swammerdami]

Yeah, there are a lot of stupid people.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc4Mi4ocyDw[/YOUTUBE]

We already know. You didn't need to put your hand up.

Thanks for re-posting this, bilby. It rather proves my point! Trausti's "Wuddabout this stupidity by the rational faction?" is itself amazingly stupid.

His answer to Trumpists thinking Hillary runs a child sex ring, is to find some young people who don't recognize 'triceratops' out of the blue? He thinks those two "stupidities" are comparable?? Is he completely lacking self-awareness???

 

[TSwizzle]

So no, "diversity" is NOT the problem. To the contrary Diversity was once the Solution. I'll reveal the problem, but will hope that font size 5 is good enough. OP: Please use your browser's zoom function if you need to see this more clearly.

The U.S.A.'s problem is Stupidity.

Stupidity is a problem. It's everywhere.

In the United States, there are millions of Americans who do not want to take the Covid-19 vaccine because Bill Gates has put implants in the vaccines.

Where do you get the idea that "millions of Americans who do not want to take the Covid-19 vaccine because Bill Gates has put implants in the vaccines." ? There are probably some cranks that genuinely believe that but they are probably few and far between.

If they get the vaccine, they will be brainwashed and forced to forget that the Jews and the Blacks killed Jesus. A huge number of Americans are outraged that the mainstream media ignores one of the biggest stories of our time: Hillary Clinton eats human babies for breakfast. Every single word that oozes out of the fetid pie-holes of would-be Presidents like Ted Cruz or Josh Hawley is a lie. I could go on, but with the bizarre ignorance of OP, I wonder What's the point?

Yeah, what is the point that you just post a lot of crap ? Do you feel better getting it off you chest or something ?

Hope this helps.

Yes it does. It shows that the problem is not diversity. The problem is with stupid people thinking that what they read on the internet is real. i.e stupidity.

 

[Politesse]

I don't think diversity is, in and of itself, the problem. All political systems encapsulate some form of demographic and ideological diversity, it is a normal state of affairs that all governments must contend with on some level.

I do think some of the reasons for our diversity, the social violence that created so much of it and the economic incentives that smoothly underscored and eventually replaced those coercive processes, might ultimately prove to be the sappers that undermine the fortress of state. There is a certain karmatic reaction that attends the fall of great empires, wherever they are found. Whomever's back you crawl up to create these giant, inplausible polities, ultimately world powers can only be crafted one way: sticking a knife in someone's back to support your weight as you climb up. And either forces within or forces without will eventually undo your work. Cause and effect.

People in Europe talk about how young the U.S. is, but we've actually had a pretty respectable run as far as a single unbroken imperial government goes. In the grand scheme of things, not many empires outlive their founders by three centuries, no matter what social forces they face or evade to do so. And I suspect that our full descent from power is still many decades if not centuries away. We the people may be divided, but our ruling classes are not. Look how quickly the Democrats have scurried to defend former Republican talking points now that they are in power! The interests of the plutocracy are relatively consistent, and many if not most of their ideological arguments are mostly for show. We are a very diverse group, but the oligarchs themselves are not. It serves their short-term interests for the public to be at each other's throats, in fact- less oversight for them if we are bickering with our neighbors instead of our landlords, or our landlords instead of their masters, or even their masters instead of the banks.

But over the long term, yeah, these things will tear apart the nation at its roots whatever the ruling class tries to do in order to forestall the inevitable.

 

[ronburgundy]

The US isn't that diverse. Look at other major world powers: Europe/EU, China, Russia, India. I think they are all more diverse than the US (although China is doing its best to rectify it). I don't see any of them falling apart any time soon.

Depends how it's measured. China has lots of small sub groups that vary in language and culture in some ways, but the overwhelming majority of people in China have ancestral linage going back very far within the boundaries of that modern country. The US has no one but it's tiny % of indigenous people's with ancestry going back more than 600 years, with 25% of residents being foreign born and a majority only going back only 1-5 generations, and coming from nearly every country on every continent. Even the 4 million "Chinese" descendants within the US are not just "Chinese", they are a microcosm of the diversity within China itself. The US would far exceed China and most countries if you systematically measured and were able to quantify the degree of cultural and physical diversity taking into account how recently they came from a different nation and how different people are (not just how many "different" official groups there are that have coexisted for many centuries in neighboring villages and provinces).

Then there is the fact that the basic lack of freedoms, and the highly centralized authoritarian control in China makes "getting along" among factions irrelevant to stability that is more fragile in a constitutional democracy where people have more protected rights to express and act upon their disagreements, and government has less ability to use force to enforce the will of the majority.

 

[Gospel]

We survived this


This


This


and then this



I think America will be just fine.

 

[Swammerdami]

... In the United States, there are millions of Americans who do not want to take the Covid-19 vaccine because Bill Gates has put implants in the vaccines. ...

Some will find my claims outrageous, but you can find the following all over the Internet:

According to a [summer 2020] Yahoo News/YouGov poll, 44 percent of Republicans believe that Bill Gates is plotting to use a mass COVID-19 vaccination campaign as a pretext to implant microchips in billions of people and monitor their movements

44% of "Republicans" (which both Yahoo and I seem to treat as synonymous with "Trump voters") is certainly "millions."

Especially telling was the Trumpist in this thread who countered the millions of Trumpists who fell for the Bill Gates conspiracy, with five Americans who didn't recognize the word 'triceratops' out of context! I consider that sort of stupidly misleading comparison to be itself gross disinformation, and moreover an admission that the Trumpists simply do not have any Wuddabouts to mitigate their own stupidities.

 

[TSwizzle]

I can tell you don't get out much.

 

[ZiprHead]

I can tell you don't get out much.

I can tell you don't read much.